UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[ScottishSam]

We have to be very careful about this, because of the rules. But yes according to the brother TH and Olivia were together when Arthur was born. Until they split up. Then TH had Arthur a lot, even though he primarily lived with Olivia. The brother even said TH was his go to for childcare. Then TH had full custody when Olivia went to prison. I can’t face trying to scroll BL to check if the brother was a prosecution witness.

Noted

 

[Discosally]

He never took care of the child before,
those who cared for Arthur were:
Olivia and then his parents.
He was as somebody and I earlier wrote - just a part time dad, or even less as he is like a child himself.

But even taking him being a part time dad, there’s nothing in the prosecution witnesses testimonies that would make me think they are lying, it makes no difference if it was part time shared custody if he was actually a good father at the times he had care of Arthur? He stated that had never moved out of home until he moved in with ET on the night that lockdown was announced…did OLH live with them in the annexe at his parents property until they broke up?
Also I think if he wasn’t a good father, would OLH not have tried to prevent him from having sole custody whilst she is in prison, she does have that right? For me, there isn’t the evidence there to say he wasn’t a good father before, it all points to that he was.

We have to be very careful about this, because of the rules. But yes according to the brother TH and Olivia were together when Arthur was born. Until they split up. Then TH had Arthur a lot, even though he primarily lived with Olivia. The brother even said TH was his go to for childcare. Then TH had full custody when Olivia went to prison. I can’t face trying to scroll BL to check if the brother was a prosecution witness.

The brother that said this was Daniel, he was a prosecution witness

 

[Tinksx]

This is the most horrific cruelty I ever read about. I can barely count the number of simultaneous and relentless tortures that Arthur was subjected to.

1. Starved
2. Dehydrated
3. Poisoned
4. Imprisoned
5. Beaten
6. Hit on the head (different category).
7. Made to stand all day alone
8. No bed
9. Ignored when crying or self-harm
10. Bullied, told was ugly, cut up shirts
11. Teased (others eat McD while he starved)
12. Tricked (pretend to bring to granddad)
13. Constantly monitored
14. No friends
15. Mother abandoned him
16. Constant pain from internal organs
17. Constant knowledge of next torture coming if not following all rules
18. All this done by people closest to you
19. Frustration and confusion. Why is this happening?
20. Threats seem real, burial, take head off
21. Knowledge he was going to be killed.

I tried to imagine two or three of these happening to me the same time. I cannot. Arthur had all 21 of these, and probably more we don’t even know about, every day, all the time, relentlessly, for weeks and weeks.

I doubt that anybody who has not been brutally tortured can begin to understand the pain and loneliness that Arthur experienced. I wonder if the judge and jury can.

I’m a 46-year-old man. I can’t remember the last time I cried before this week. I’ve cried this week. Every day. I can’t bring myself to eat for the last two days because of what happened to Arthur. I have never obsessed over any case like this before. I was glad to find this forum to see other people feeling the same grief. Thank you for that.

There is no limit to human stupidity, and human cruelty. This boy experienced the worst of the worst. God help us all.

I hope these monsters experience one of the punishments they inflicted on Arthur. Imprisonment. Forever.

Welcome @JimSteel!

I think everyone here echos your thoughts about poor Arthur and his atrocious treatment. It’s horrendous and a few of us have had to take a step back at times due to the emotion it invokes within us.

I mainly wanted to say, please take care of yourself. Remember to take a step back if you’re struggling to eat and sleep and practice some self care *hugs*

ETA Spelling mistake.

 

[ChloLo]

Thank you @Discosally I thought he was but wasn’t certain.

 

[ScottishSam]

Welcome @JimSteel!

I think everyone here echos your thoughts about poor Arthur and his atrocious treatment. It’s horrendous and a few of us have had to take a step back at times due to the emotion it invokes within us.

I mainly wanted to say, please take care of yourself. Remember to take a step back if you’re struggling to get eat and sleep and practice some self care *hugs*

Yes, welcome @JimSteel

 

[ScottishSam]

But even taking him being a part time dad, there’s nothing in the prosecution witnesses testimonies that would make me think they are lying, it makes no difference if it was part time shared custody if he was actually a good father at the times he had care of Arthur? He stated that had never moved out of home until he moved in with ET on the night that lockdown was announced…did OLH live with them in the annexe at his parents property until they broke up?
Also I think if he wasn’t a good father, would OLH not have tried to prevent him from having sole custody whilst she is in prison, she does have that right? For me, there isn’t the evidence there to say he wasn’t a good father before, it all points to that he was.


The brother that said this was Daniel, he was a prosecution witness

I agree. If he was deemed to be an unfit parent there were 2 sets of grandparents who would have been willing to have Arthur. The fact TH did get custody says to me nobody had any concerns.

 

[Tortoise]

I think the only evidence of him saying “he’s my son, it’s my business” has come from ET and her witnesses.

I’m absolutely not defending him, but I don’t think he would have treated Arthur like this if he hadnt of met ET, I think there is something in that.

It is right what you say that he put more value on the pregnancy than Arthur.

I want him to get the longest prison sentence possible and for him to have his own treatment dished out on by the other inmates. I just think it’s complex why and how he did it.

I've found a few quotes from the trial showing TH was not a people pleaser -


TH evidence in chief :

"[Hughes] confirms on occasion he would say 'mind your own business, he's my son I'll do it my way'."


TH's mother JH:

"Ms Hughes says: "My husband said he was always going on at the kid, children have scuffles. That then led to an argument and a fallout between my husband and Thomas. Thomas thought my husband was poking his nose in.""


"Ms Hughes tells the court that she told Thomas she intended to see Arthur's other grandmother - Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow's mother.
She says: "He said we were dead to him. I think he might have called us 'scum'. He was quite agitated."


TH's brother AH:

"He says he made a 'passing comment' that the pink chair was 'not fair' but his brother told him it was not any of his business so he never mentioned it again."


TH's first police interview, before he's had discussions with ET:


"He said: "All the rules set in the house were my rules. Emma followed them to a certain degree. She didn't agree with all of them. She said she didn't agree."

However he stated the 'thinking step' was 'not my idea'."


How TH behaved at the hairdresser's home - giving the message he didn't care what anyone thought of his parenting:

"She says: "Only time he would speak is if they said something. He would say 'ok, yes'. If he didn't respond him correctly Tom would say 'yes what?'. He would say 'yes sir'. That's how Tom wanted him to respond to him, 'yes sir'.


"Hughes told the officer what happened when he arrived at the hairdresser's home.

He said: "I had the slipper in my hand. He was facing the front door. I came in. When he was like 'I haven't done anything', I wish I put the slipper down. My next question would have been 'why have you tried to hit people?'. Basically I didn't give him a chance to explain himself.

"I had a story of what happened. He was telling me a different story. So I hit him with it, the bottom of it. After I calmed down I felt ashamed. I basically hit him with a weapon."

Hughes confirmed it 'took Arthur by surprise' and he 'bashed his head' on part of the door."

Social worker :

"She tells the court around a week later Hughes spoke to her colleague on the phone and said he had changed his mind about it and felt he did not need the support."

Stepmum accused of murdering Arthur was 'catalyst' for tragedy

That's not including ET's evidence or that of her step father.

 

[Discosally]

I've found a few quotes from the trial showing TH was not a people pleaser


TH evidence in chief :

"[Hughes] confirms on occasion he would say 'mind your own business, he's my son I'll do it my way'."


TH's mother JH:

"Ms Hughes says: "My husband said he was always going on at the kid, children have scuffles. That then led to an argument and a fallout between my husband and Thomas. Thomas thought my husband was poking his nose in.""


"Ms Hughes tells the court that she told Thomas she intended to see Arthur's other grandmother - Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow's mother.
She says: "He said we were dead to him. I think he might have called us 'scum'. He was quite agitated."


TH's brother AH:

"He says he made a 'passing comment' that the pink chair was 'not fair' but his brother told him it was not any of his business so he never mentioned it again."


TH's first police interview, before he's had discussions with ET:


"He said: "All the rules set in the house were my rules. Emma followed them to a certain degree. She didn't agree with all of them. She said she didn't agree."

However he stated the 'thinking step' was 'not my idea'."


How TH behaved at the hairdresser's home - giving the message he didn't care what anyone thought of his parenting:

"She says: "Only time he would speak is if they said something. He would say 'ok, yes'. If he didn't respond him correctly Tom would say 'yes what?'. He would say 'yes sir'. That's how Tom wanted him to respond to him, 'yes sir'.


"Hughes told the officer what happened when he arrived at the hairdresser's home.

He said: "I had the slipper in my hand. He was facing the front door. I came in. When he was like 'I haven't done anything', I wish I put the slipper down. My next question would have been 'why have you tried to hit people?'. Basically I didn't give him a chance to explain himself.

"I had a story of what happened. He was telling me a different story. So I hit him with it, the bottom of it. After I calmed down I felt ashamed. I basically hit him with a weapon."

Hughes confirmed it 'took Arthur by surprise' and he 'bashed his head' on part of the door."

Social worker :

"She tells the court around a week later Hughes spoke to her colleague on the phone and said he had changed his mind about it and felt he did not need the support."

Stepmum accused of murdering Arthur was 'catalyst' for tragedy

That's not including ET's evidence or that of her step father.

Great referencing, thank you for finding all these. It’s good to see things all in one place as the trial is so long it is overwhelming and difficult to recall.

To me, these are all incidences that happened after he met ET, I really think she brought out a side to him that wasn’t there before. I don’t know why I think that, I hate women being blamed for things, women so often take the ‘blame/sins of Eve’ so to speak, so it is not my natural response, but from what limited evidence I have seen I think the evidence points to him negatively changing after meeting ET. I am absolutely not defending him at all, he is guilty of appalling and unimaginable cruelty and abuse.

 

[ScottishSam]

Great referencing, thank you for finding all these. It’s good to see things all in one place as the trial is so long it is overwhelming and difficult to recall.

To me, these are all incidences that happened after he met ET, I really think she brought out a side to him that wasn’t there before. I don’t know why I think that, I hate women being blamed for things, women so often take the ‘blame of Eve’ so to speak, so it is not my natural response, but from what limited evidence I have seen I think the evidence points to him negatively changing after meeting ET. I am absolutely not defending him at all, he is guilty of appalling and unimaginable cruelty and abuse.

I agree. It's one thing to have a family argument, we've all been there.
I think by the 2 days of the hairdresser visits (Arthur's last 48 hours alive), TH had been moulded and shaped to exactly where ET wanted him.
I also agree that women unfairly receive the worst judgment for any crime, but I feel her involvement in this shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[Tinksx]

I think In regards to telling his family to butt out, I don’t place much weight on that. Simply because I have been known to not take my mothers advice on her parenting techniques (and also taken offence at it). Not because her techniques are incorrect or were abusive, but just that I feel the times have changed and so have the ways to do things. Even advice about sleeping positions have changed etc… but this obviously is different because I clearly wasn’t abusing my children and I also wouldn’t have been rude to my mum, I would’ve just nodded and smiled and continued on parenting in my own way. Could he have just perceived this as his parents giving unwanted advice that he hadn’t asked for? Could he have perceived the advice in a different way to how it was given eg as a lack of confidence in his abilities?

 

[JimSteel]

While I agree with you. No 15 - his mum didn't abandon him. She murdered her new partner. If we all had crystal balls, I'm sure she'd not have done that.

Thank you for the correction. I wonder did Arthur know what happened there. Who knows what horrible lies he was told.

 

[JimSteel]

While I agree with you. No 15 - his mum didn't abandon him. She murdered her new partner. If we all had crystal balls, I'm sure she'd not have done that.

Thank you for the correction. I wonder did Arthur know what happened there. Who knows what horrible lies he was told.

 

[Noseyjosie]

I think In regards to telling his family to butt out, I don’t place much weight on that. Simply because I have been known to not take my mothers advice on her parenting techniques (and also taken offence at it). Not because her techniques are incorrect or were abusive, but just that I feel the times have changed and so have the ways to do things. Even advice about sleeping positions have changed etc… but this obviously is different because I clearly wasn’t abusing my children and I also wouldn’t have been rude to my mum, I would’ve just nodded and smiled and continued on parenting in my own way. Could he have just perceived this as his parents giving unwanted advice that he hadn’t asked for? Could he have perceived the advice in a different way to how it was given eg as a lack of confidence in his abilities?

ET was trying to turn him away from his family at this point too and I'm sure I read in the BL updates that she told him his family thought he was thick - or words to that effect. He was so buried in her manipulations that he was almost, if not entirely, incapable of thinking rationally for himself. Don't underestimate power of a narcissist

 

[JimSteel]

Welcome @JimSteel!

I think everyone here echos your thoughts about poor Arthur and his atrocious treatment. It’s horrendous and a few of us have had to take a step back at times due to the emotion it invokes within us.

I mainly wanted to say, please take care of yourself. Remember to take a step back if you’re struggling to eat and sleep and practice some self care *hugs*

ETA Spelling mistake.

Thank you for the welcome and for the sound advice. I need to say strong to look after my own kids. But you’re right, life has to go on.

Well done to the parent on here, I can’t remember who, for lighting a candle for Arthur every day with their child. I’m not sure I could even begin to explain this to my own kids.

 

[Tinksx]

Thank you for the correction. I guess murdering somebody includes abandoning your own children. I wonder did Arthur know what happened there. Who knows what horrible lies he was told.

I can’t quite correlate murder = abandonment as a choice. Sure it’s separation by a set of circumstances. I also think it’s worth mentioning that Olivia didn’t actually abandon Arthur, she was in the process of securing visitation and had spoken to him over the phone prior to his death. Obviously she was not going to get full care of him or overnight access, but to say she abandoned him, I wouldn’t say is fair.

 

[Tinksx]

Thank you for the welcome and for the sound advice. I need to say strong to look after my own kids. But you’re right, life has to go on.

Well done to the parent on here, I can’t remember who, for lighting a candle for Arthur every day with their child. I’m not sure I could even begin to explain this to my own kids.

This case is very taxing on the emotional and mental health of all reading. I felt completely drained and emotionally empty after the cctv and Audio was released. Just remember to be kind to yourself and your health. You sound like an amazing father and you’re right, your kiddiewinks need you!

 

[JimSteel]

Ok

I can’t quite correlate murder = abandonment as a choice. Sure it’s separation by a set of circumstances. I also think it’s worth mentioning that Olivia didn’t actually abandon Arthur, she was in the process of securing visitation and had spoken to him over the phone prior to his death. Obviously she was not going to get full care of him or overnight access, but to say she abandoned him, I wouldn’t say is fair.

Thank you for explaining. You’re right. I guess I was just thinking from Arthur’s point of view it was the same outcome.

 

[Discosally]

Thank you for the correction. I guess murdering somebody includes abandoning your own children. I wonder did Arthur know what happened there. Who knows what horrible lies he was told.

I know she committed a terrible crime, she was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. So she is guilty of killing someone, not murdering someone. There is a huge difference, manslaughter is a crime that that any human is capable of. Manslaughter is an act where someone dies because of what criminal action you took against them, it’s not that your actions were with the intention to cause them to die. I feel that OLH takes a bad rap as a convicted murderer when she legally isn’t convicted of murder. For me it takes away from the fact that her little boy was murdered.
I think initially it was agreed he was told that she was on a tour in the army but then he was told she went to prison..I think it was TH who told him because apparently Arthur was fearing abandonment and was becoming obsessed with death according to the Senco teachers testimony if I remember right.

 

[ScottishSam]

Thank you for the correction. I guess murdering somebody includes abandoning your own children. I wonder did Arthur know what happened there. Who knows what horrible lies he was told.

He was initially told mum had joined the army. Then at some point he was told she was in prison. He disclosed this to school friends, and TH was given advice on how to handle the situation.

 

[JimSteel]

This case is very taxing on the emotional and mental health of all reading. I felt completely drained and emotionally empty after the cctv and Audio was released. Just remember to be kind to yourself and your health. You sound like an amazing father and you’re right, your kiddiewinks need you!

Very kind words thank you. I learn a lot about life reading these pages. Poor Arthur learned so much about life and death in the cruellest manner. I will try to look after myself better. We can’t beat ourselves up over this. Take care yourself too!

 

[Dotta]

There is one more thing I dont really understand.
Both of them are on trial of treatment and murder that happened in the house.
Nothing can be disclosed about other facts, eg ET suicide, etc.

So, how is it relevant how TH treated Arthur earlier?

Shouldn't the Jury hear how ET treated her children also?
If other children were abused?

As they are both accused, why only TH is referenced with his prior treatment of Arthur?