UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[JimSteel]

I know she committed a terrible crime, she was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. So she is guilty of killing someone, not murdering someone. There is a huge difference, manslaughter is a crime that that any human is capable of. Manslaughter is an act where someone dies because of what criminal action you took against them, it’s not that your actions were with the intention to cause them to die. I feel that OLH takes a bad rap as a convicted murderer when she legally isn’t convicted of murder. For me it takes away from the fact that her little boy was murdered.
I think initially it was agreed he was told that she was on a tour in the army but then he was told she went to prison..I think it was TH who told him because apparently Arthur was fearing abandonment and was becoming obsessed with death according to the Senco teachers testimony if I remember right.

Thanks for explaining, yes I appreciate all that, you are right. I’ll correct my post.

 

[ChloLo]

I don’t really wish to speak I’ll of OLH, but, putting the conviction to the side, if you look at the judges comments he describes her as a manipulator and said the relationship between her and GC was toxic. Perhaps TH was somewhat conditioned to this sort of behaviour from partners. Making him ripe for the picking for ET.

 

[Discosally]

There is one more thing I dont really understand.
Both of them are on trial of treatment and murder that happened in the house.
Nothing can be disclosed about other facts, eg ET suicide, etc.

So, how is it relevant how TH treated Arthur earlier?

Shouldn't the Jury hear how ET treated her children also?
If other children were abused?

As they are both accused, why only TH is referenced with his prior treatment of Arthur?

They might well have been told how ET’s kids are cared for, by all accounts her children were cared for nicely. I don’t think she abused her kids. Her other 2 went to live with their fathers after her suicide attempt, by the time she recovered it’s possible she thought it was better for them to stay there as she had a very long recovery.

The trial brings up how he was before because this is the defence case- that he was not like this before he met ET

The trial is stating that she had a suicide attempt and children living with their other parents, it’s not been not talked about?

 

[ScottishSam]

There is one more thing I dont really understand.
Both of them are on trial of treatment and murder that happened in the house.
Nothing can be disclosed about other facts, eg ET suicide, etc.

So, how is it relevant how TH treated Arthur earlier?

Shouldn't the Jury hear how ET treated her children also?
If other children were abused?

As they are both accused, why only TH is referenced with his prior treatment of Arthur?

ETs treatment of her children were discussed. That's why Shane was on the stand.

 

[Tinksx]

There is one more thing I dont really understand.
Both of them are on trial of treatment and murder that happened in the house.
Nothing can be disclosed about other facts, eg ET suicide, etc.

So, how is it relevant how TH treated Arthur earlier?

Shouldn't the Jury hear how ET treated her children also?
If other children were abused?

As they are both accused, why only TH is referenced with his prior treatment of Arthur?

All of that was disclosed which is how we know about it.

We know she attempted suicide.
We know she didn’t have custody of her 2 eldest children and lied about them.
We know she had prior involvement with SS regarding her 2 youngest children.

It’s not her child that is dead, it is Arthur.
And it’s Arthur’s backstory and history that is being divulged, so obviously why TH will factor more as he was there since Arthur’s birth.

 

[ScottishSam]

Thanks for explaining, yes I appreciate all that, you are right. I’ll correct my post.

You don't need to correct your post! I made an error re having evidence struck off for non attendance at court. I've left it though as it all adds to the discussion. Nobody is perfect, this is a highly emotive issue and we're all trying to work out why and how this terrible atrocity happened.

 

[Discosally]

I don’t really wish to speak I’ll of OLH, but, putting the conviction to the side, if you look at the judges comments he describes her as a manipulator and said the relationship between her and GC was toxic. Perhaps TH was somewhat conditioned to this sort of behaviour from partners. Making him ripe for the picking for ET.

I think so too, I think he is a very weak person so attracts certain types of personality for partners.

 

[Dotta]

ETs treatment of her children were discussed. That's why Shane was on the stand.

Ooops! I missed it then.
Thanks.

 

[Discosally]

You don't need to correct your post! I made an error re having evidence struck off for non attendance at court. I've left it though as it all adds to the discussion. Nobody is perfect, this is a highly emotive issue and we're all trying to work out why and how this terrible atrocity happened.

Absolutely this! Me too, I’ve made errors also…please don’t correct your post, it’s all for discussion.

 

[ScottishSam]

Gaslighting can alter one’s perception of reality. It’s hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it.

People who've been gaslighted believe they're going mad. They can become so dependent on the abuser that they don't believe their version of events anymore. It's an insidious and extremely cruel form of abuse.

 

[ScottishSam]

They might well have been told how ET’s kids are cared for, by all accounts her children were cared for nicely. I don’t think she abused her kids. Her other 2 went to live with their fathers after her suicide attempt, by the time she recovered it’s possible she thought it was better for them to stay there as she had a very long recovery.

The trial brings up how he was before because this is the defence case- that he was not like this before he met ET

The trial is stating that she had a suicide attempt and children living with their other parents, it’s not been not talked about?

Maybe, the reasons why the elder 2 ended up with their dad/dads would prejudice this case? Maybe that's why their parent hasn't been called as a witness? JMO

 

[Tinksx]

I’ll be honest, when I called the police on my ex partner for DA, I sat there crying to the police officer on scene that it was me that was going to be arrested, that I was the abusive one, that I caused all of it. Sat there with split lip, extensive bruising and concussion.
My abuser was charged with coercive control and were at crown court for trial. But just an example of how coercive and controlling behaviour, daily gaslighting, manipulation and psychological bullying can really alter your sense and perception of reality.

 

[Noseyjosie]

Maybe, the reasons why the elder 2 ended up with their dad/dads would prejudice this case? Maybe that's why their parent hasn't been called as a witness? JMO

Exactly this. She may have been Mary Poppins, or more of a Rose West. I admit I do wonder why she seems to have no contact with them to the point she didn't even tell TH they existed.

 

[ScottishSam]

I’ll be honest, when I called the police on my ex partner for DA, I sat there crying to the police officer on scene that it was me that was going to be arrested, that I was the abusive one, that I caused all of it. Sat there with split lip, extensive bruising and concussion.
My abuser was charged with coercive control and were at crown court for trial. But just an example of how coercive and controlling behaviour, daily gaslighting, manipulation and psychological bullying can really alter your sense and perception of reality.

100% this.
I've heard from people who didn't realise they were experiencing gaslighting until they began to write every single thing down, every day. And cross referenced it to what the abusers version of events was. This can take months/ years for people to realise they're being controlled.

 

[ScottishSam]

Exactly this. She may have been Mary Poppins, or more of a Rose West. I admit I do wonder why she seems to have no contact with them to the point she didn't even tell TH they existed.

And to not talk about your babies! Ever. It sounds so cold and ruthless

 

[Dotta]

ETs treatment of her children were discussed. That's why Shane was on the stand.

So for the Jury they are both in the same boat.
They both treated their respective kids well earlier and suddenly they both erupted in violence.

 

[JimSteel]

I have to say this is a really unusual forum. Informing, educating, encouraging, querying, no cancelling people, all on the most challenging and emotive topics. Thank you for all the posts, I’m very glad I found this.

 

[Tinksx]

So for the Jury they are both in the same boat.
They both treated their respective kids well earlier and suddenly they both erupted in violence.

Depends how the jury take the evidence presented. Do they believe a good parent would lie about the existence of two elder children? Do they believe a good parent would have prior involvement with SS? Do they believe a good parent would call their ex up to inflict violence on their current partner? It’s all about how the jury interprets what has been given to them.

 

[Tinksx]

I have to say this is a really unusual forum. Informing, educating, encouraging, querying, no cancelling people, all on the most challenging and emotive topics. Thank you for all the posts, I’m very glad I found this.

Strictly no cancelling allowed. We’re all allowed different opinions and in fact, I find it really helpful. Someone may have picked up on something that I had skimmed past, I might remember something that someone else might have missed. Everyone here is here to see justice done for Arthur, that’s the main objective. It’s a really good place and I think you’ll like it here!

 

[ScottishSam]

So for the Jury they are both in the same boat.
They both treated their respective kids well earlier and suddenly they both erupted in violence.

It's not unusual for one child to be a scapegoat, and to suffer all the abuse. While the other children are treated well. Daniel Pelka's sister is a good example, she had a bedroom. Wasn't punished for helping Daniel, and was well fed. Isaiah Torres is another one, his 2 sisters were loved, although the parents encouraged them to join in the abuse. His 3rd murder trial is due to start next year in the US.