UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Discosally]

I'd argue that TH was vulnerable. I don't believe his family have a vested interest in getting him off with this. His mother and brother both said he struggled academically, lacked confidence in himself and if one person told him he'd not done well, despite 10 telling him he had done well, he'd believe the negative opinion. Blake has said he did not go to court to rescue his brother, and hasn't spoken to him since Arthur died. It was also THs family who reported the bruise.

We are all well aware what TH has done to Arthur, I dont think anyone doubts his behaviour was despicable. I see nobody on this thread who has had the wool pulled over their eyes. I do see a lot of people trying to work out the angles though. Nothing is ever black and white, it's the grey in between that we are all exploring.

How do you know ET has a significant MH problem? Where has that been reported? Without reading her psych file none of us will ever be privy to that information. She has stated she has, but that information has not been released. I know plenty of people who claim to have MH issues, yet have never been officially diagnosed.

Where does it say TH practiced MMA? His brother did - the one ET accused of flirting with her.

Both ETs witnesses have a vested interest in presenting her in the best light- the mother and step father who couldn't decide who called SS - him or his wife. They also have a desperate desire to downplay her part in this. And that call wasn't logged. So there is no evidence it was made. Shane, her ex who described her as a paragon of virtue. Both have a vested interest in protecting her. Otherwise, they have been complicit in witnessing the abuse of a 6 year old boy, and did nothing. Arthur sat for hours in their home, staring at the wall. Like a zombie. How do these people sound to you?

And while we're here. Do you expect me to believe that a grown woman allowed a child to be treated like this in her home, without reporting it? How does that paint ET to you? What type of person would sleep with, and conceive a child with a man who was capable of treating his own son so cruelly. Wouldn't you worry how your unborn child would be treated? And wouldn't your first concern be for protecting the little boy you have taken responsibility for?
She had plenty of opportunities to help Arthur when she had TH running errands for her, and didn't. Lets not pretend that she isn't as guilty as he is.

I also come from a deprived background. I am now a professional, homeowner, aiming for a second degree. I don't see what her background has to do with any of this.

This! I totally agree with everything you’ve written, it’s as if I’ve written it myself!

 

[Discosally]

<modsnip>

I’m only going off of what was said at trial and that was TH family believed ET was manipulative and controlling before TH moved in with her. That TH mum took a dislike to ET leaving her children to spend time at JH home. That the brother took a dislike for ET bragging about her sons abilities and downplayed Arthur’s (regarding boxing). Playing one off against the other. The issue with toys being too loud.

We need to remember that TH own mother is a prosecution witness, as well as one of TH brothers, neither are defence witnesses. As in, neither are defending TH.

We have been told ET called SH to come and attack TH. That’s clear intimidation. That was confirmed by all participants (minor discrepancies regarding the end result). So we then have that TH is intimidated/controlled. Proven.

We have Dutton (stepfather ET) willing to lie on the stand for ET. In regards to an SS call. Not a prosecution witness but a defence witness. Why not a prosecution witness if he had witnessed this treatment?

I’m also basing my opinion off (limited albeit) ETs demeanour on the stand. She still blames Arthur for his own death… she also stated “TH is not that special”, doesn’t sound like a woman doubting her own self worth IMO.

You also stated previously that neighbours had called in SS repeatedly, yet the neighbour on the stand stated they had no cooncerns.

I’d like to have the same opinion as you, but I don’t. ET is no victim, and if she is, its only at her hands.

I agree totally

 

[Discosally]

Really good point @Tinksx about Dutton being a defence witness not prosecution witness…if he had indeed called SS, you would think that would put him in the prosecution camp…I didn’t think of this.

 

[Discosally]

I don’t think that counts as vulnerable. I am not trusting the family’s testimony; it’s not that I think they want him to get away with it, it’s that as I said, they will understandably have a desperate need to believe it was all ET’s fault. They have already lost their grandson/nephew in the most horrific way, it would be hard to cope with the idea that it was their son/brother’s fault.



As I said, I was concerned with the court and the public having the wool pulled over their eyes. I’m not referring to members if this discussion forum.



She said so herself in court that she has a personality disorder, it would be dangerous for her to lie about something like that in a murder trial. Also the public are not sympathetic to personality disorders, if she was going to lie, there are much better conditions to lie about having.



Yes. I don’t see why the brother would lie about it. It’s really not important.



Absolutely none of this is relevant to anything I said.

To be clear, I think ET and TH are as evil as each other. They are both horrific child abusers. I just don’t think there is any evidence whatsoever that ET abused TH (or vice versa for that matter).

Both of their families will have a desperate desire to blame the person. This is to be expected, but it seems that while ET’s associates’ attempts to make her look less culpable are rightly not being taken seriously. TH’s associates and TH himself trying to make himself look like a victim are being seen as credible, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

.

Why on earth are you saying this to me?



I am NOT “pretending” that ET is less guilty. I am pointing out that TH is just as culpable as she is. I am pointing out the reasons why TH is not likely to be a victim.




The point is the power dynamic between herself and TH. She comes from an under-privileged background, he does not.

I think you are doing an injustice to JH and DH by not trusting their testimony, I don’t think they have given a single contradiction nor any reason at all for anyone to doubt their integrity? Their testimonies are very honest I think, they have been damning of TH. I don’t think they have any ulterior motive for being a prosecution witness, they want full justice for their grandson/nephew

 

[Tinksx]

Really good point @Tinksx about Dutton being a defence witness not prosecution witness…if he had indeed called SS, you would think that would put him in the prosecution camp…I didn’t think of this.

Manipulative family. Irrespective of “poor class/high class/vulnerable”. Sick of hearing it to be honest. There’s a reason ET has no contact with her eldest children (and lies/erases their existence), as there is a reason SS we’re involved with ET and SH and the youngest children (all of this before TH enters the picture), there’s a reason both ET and her stepfather (Dutton) got pulled up on their conduct in court. Vulnerable victim my a***! MOO

ETA spelling

 

[ScottishSam]

I don’t think that counts as vulnerable. I am not trusting the family’s testimony; it’s not that I think they want him to get away with it, it’s that as I said, they will understandably have a desperate need to believe it was all ET’s fault. They have already lost their grandson/nephew in the

I don’t think that counts as vulnerable. I am not trusting the family’s testimony; it’s not that I think they want him to get away with it, it’s that as I said, they will understandably have a desperate need to believe it was all ET’s fault. They have already lost their grandson/nephew in the most horrific way, it would be hard to cope with the idea that it was their son/brother’s fault.



As I said, I was concerned with the court and the public having the wool pulled over their eyes. I’m not referring to members if this discussion forum.



She said so herself in court that she has a personality disorder, it would be dangerous for her to lie about something like that in a murder trial. Also the public are not sympathetic to personality disorders, if she was going to lie, there are much better conditions to lie about having.



Yes. I don’t see why the brother would lie about it. It’s really not important.



Absolutely none of this is relevant to anything I said.

To be clear, I think ET and TH are as evil as each other. They are both horrific child abusers. I just don’t think there is any evidence whatsoever that ET abused TH (or vice versa for that matter).

Both of their families will have a desperate desire to blame the person. This is to be expected, but it seems that while ET’s associates’ attempts to make her look less culpable are rightly not being taken seriously. TH’s associates and TH himself trying to make himself look like a victim are being seen as credible, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

.

Why on earth are you saying this to me?



I am NOT “pretending” that ET is less guilty. I am pointing out that TH is just as culpable as she is. I am pointing out the reasons why TH is not likely to be a victim.




The point is the power dynamic between herself and TH. She comes from an under-privileged background, he does not.

Please explain why admitting to a personality disorder in court is dangerous?
I'd argue both families have an interest in 'helping ' their relative. But the bull**** has come from ETs side, not THs.
As for power dynamics, THs family seem like they're a higher calibre than ETs.
I'd also argue that as someone of lower calibre, ET could indimidate TH. Men can and are the victims of domestic abuse, which is as unreported as women's domestic abuse.
My underprivileged background has given me none of the problems suffered by ET, I don't follow your line of thought here. What are you implying about under privileged people here?

 

[Dotta]

Manipulative family. Irrespective of “poor class/high class/vulnerable”. Sick of hearing it to be honest. There’s a reason ET has no contact with her eldest children (and lies/erases their existence), as there is a reason SS we’re involved with ET and SH and the youngest children (all of this before TH enters the picture), there’s a reason both ET and her stepfather (Dutton) got pulled up on their conduct in court. Vulnerable victim my a***! MOO

ETA spelling

But the youngest kids stayed with ET, not S.

 

[Discosally]

But the youngest kids stayed with ET, not S.

That could be that SH didn’t want to be a full time dad when they broke up?

 

[Tinksx]

But the youngest kids stayed with ET, not S.

SH Is not the father of the eldest children firstly.

The youngest children did stay with SH though, on weekends at the very least.

Both had to attend parenting courses after SS intervention.

Make up your mind.

Is ET a mentally ill suicidal abused woman who can’t look after her children?

Or is ET manipulative and coercive and can convince SS for care of her children 5/7 (if SH didn’t have shared care).

What point are you making from my post because I am struggling to understand

 

[Dotta]

SH Is not the father of the eldest children firstly.

The youngest children did stay with SH though, on weekends at the very least.

Both had to attend parenting courses after SS intervention.

Make up your mind.

Is ET a mentally ill suicidal abused woman who can’t look after her children?

Or is ET manipulative and coercive and can convince SS for care of her children 5/7 (if SH didn’t have shared care).

What point are you making from my post because I am struggling to understand

You wrote about SS and ET/SH.
But she got the kids - so SS decided she is fit, no?
I have no idea what is wrong with ET - I only read about this case here on WS.
I have theories, but Im not a psychiatrist.
That is all I can say.
Oh, and GoodNight

 

[Tinksx]

You wrote about SS and ET/SH.
But she got the kids - so SS decided she is fit, no?
I have no idea what is wrong with ET - I only read about this case here on WS.
I have theories, but Im not a psychiatrist.
That is all I can say.
Oh, and GoodNight

No I wrote about ET conduct as a whole, which you read and quoted. SS sent both ET and SH on a parenting course. We don’t even know if ET had her kids full time, JH (TH mother) took umbrage on the fact that ET spent so much of her time away from her children. Therefore we can’t confirm that ET did have full care of her children.

ETA spelling again!!

 

[Dotta]

No I wrote about ET conduct as a whole, which you read and quoted. SS sent both ET and SH on a parenting course. We don’t even know if ET had her kids full time, JH (TH mother) took umbrage on the fact that ET spent so much of her time away from her children. Therefore we can’t confirm that ET did have full care or her children.

Aha, thanks for claryfing.

 

[ScottishSam]

I think you are doing an injustice to JH and DH by not trusting their testimony, I don’t think they have given a single contradiction nor any reason at all for anyone to doubt their integrity? Their testimonies are very honest I think, they have been damning of TH. I don’t think they have any ulterior motive for being a prosecution witness, they want full justice for their grandson/nephew

Well said

 

[ScottishSam]

I think you are doing an injustice to JH and DH by not trusting their testimony, I don’t think they have given a single contradiction nor any reason at all for anyone to doubt their integrity? Their testimonies are very honest I think, they have been damning of TH. I don’t think they have any ulterior motive for being a prosecution witness, they want full justice for their grandson/nephew

Well said

 

[Tinksx]

Aha, thanks for claryfing.

You’re welcome ​

 

[squish]

I think you are doing an injustice to JH and DH by not trusting their testimony, I don’t think they have given a single contradiction nor any reason at all for anyone to doubt their integrity? Their testimonies are very honest I think, they have been damning of TH. I don’t think they have any ulterior motive for being a prosecution witness, they want full justice for their grandson/nephew

I agree they are honest and don't doubt that they are telling the truth as they see it. As I have said, again and again, I don't think they want to help TH get off with it. It is natural and expected that the family will want to believe ET is more culpable, and this is coming out in their descriptions of her as domineering etc, which is adding to TH's own account of himself as a gaslit abuse victim, whether they mean to to or not.

 

[squish]

SH Is not the father of the eldest children firstly.

The youngest children did stay with SH though, on weekends at the very least.

Both had to attend parenting courses after SS intervention.

Make up your mind.

Is ET a mentally ill suicidal abused woman who can’t look after her children?

Or is ET manipulative and coercive and can convince SS for care of her children 5/7 (if SH didn’t have shared care).

What point are you making from my post because I am struggling to understand

She is both.

 

[Discosally]

I agree they are honest and don't doubt that they are telling the truth as they see it. As I have said, again and again, I don't think they want to help TH get off with it. It is natural and expected that the family will want to believe ET is more culpable, and this is coming out in their descriptions of her as domineering etc, which is adding to TH's own account of himself as a gaslit abuse victim, whether they mean to to or not.

The other thing to consider is that they are stating that they found her to be domineering etc, because that is how they found her to be? That doesn’t mean they have subconscious ulterior motive. It could well correspond with TH accusations of gaslighting if it is the truth?

 

[Discosally]

which is adding to TH's own account of himself as a gaslit abuse victim, whether they mean to to or not.

I don’t see what difference this makes whether it adds to TH own account, or not? They are the prosecutions witness, not the defence. They were cross examined and said the same thing each time. The fact that they chose to be a prosecution witness tells us (& TH) that they have left TH to defend himself. Their integrity doesn’t deserve to questioned because there has not been any reason given to question it, questioning it because it matches up with TH’s own account and making up reasons why that could be feels unjust to me, because all their actions have been honourable and evidenced. Now I’ve scrutinised their testimony and motives (both their conscious and subconscious) , I feel even more that their account testified that he was a good father until he met ET, that she influenced him ( by bombarding him with lies about Arthur’s ‘rude’ behaviour and alienating him from his family)

 

[Discosally]

I also think TH's family genuinely need to believe that ET changed their beloved son/brother in some way.

I genuinely can’t understand why you think this though?
They are prosecution witnesses in a murder trial. Their whole testimony was for the prosecution. Mr Hankin, the prosecutor, was asking them the questions that brought the information out about how TH was before he met ET and how he was after TH met her.
It can’t be helped when they are telling the truth, *for the prosecution*, if some facts happen to add to TH defence, this to me says it’s true