UK Uk- Bedgebury Forest, Kent, Woman, 30-35, 5'1'', brown hair & eyes, ectopic pregnancy, poss. sex worker, viciously murdered with wooden stake, Oct.'79

[DSCrime]

I keep wondering about the ectopic pregnancy. According to the articles, it seemed like a dire situation. If she couldn't/didn't get treatment, why was that? Was she prevented from doing so (held against her will, trafficked, etc)?
What about NHS? Does lack of treatment suggest that she wasn't a British citizen? I don't know enough about British healthcare... but I'm assuming that NHS would probably treat anyone regardless of nationality in an emergency.

Was she afraid to reach out for help...

So many questions

 

[Susikatze]

I keep wondering about the ectopic pregnancy. According to the articles, it seemed like a dire situation. If she couldn't/didn't get treatment, why was that? Was she prevented from doing so (held against her will, trafficked, etc)?
What about NHS? Does lack of treatment suggest that she wasn't a British citizen? I don't know enough about British healthcare... but I'm assuming that NHS would probably treat anyone regardless of nationality in an emergency.

Was she afraid to reach out for help...

So many questions

I was wondering about that, too. Since the ectopic did not yet rupture (which would be a serious emergency) but was at bleeding amd cramping stage, she may have intetpreted it as her period. Yes an ectopic hurts in a different place and it is agonizing, but at 6 weeks it still borderline. She may not have been aware of her pregnancy at all, it looks like she had no access to any healthcare or did not want to.
Maybe she did not work and live legally in the UK and was afraid to use any nhs facility since they would surely question her.

 

[Susikatze]

I keep wondering about the ectopic pregnancy. According to the articles, it seemed like a dire situation. If she couldn't/didn't get treatment, why was that? Was she prevented from doing so (held against her will, trafficked, etc)?
What about NHS? Does lack of treatment suggest that she wasn't a British citizen? I don't know enough about British healthcare... but I'm assuming that NHS would probably treat anyone regardless of nationality in an emergency.

Was she afraid to reach out for help...

So many questions

I was wondering about that, too. Since the ectopic did not yet rupture (which would be a serious emergency) but was at bleeding amd cramping stage, she may have intetpreted it as her period. Yes an ectopic hurts in a different place and it is agonizing, but at 6 weeks it is still borderline. She may not have been aware of her pregnancy at all, it looks like she had no access to any healthcare or did not want to.
Maybe she did not work and live legally in the UK and was afraid to use any nhs facility since they would surely question her.

 

[dotr]

I was wondering about that, too. Since the ectopic did not yet rupture (which would be a serious emergency) but was at bleeding amd cramping stage, she may have intetpreted it as her period. Yes an ectopic hurts in a different place and it is agonizing, but at 6 weeks it still borderline. She may not have been aware of her pregnancy at all, it looks like she had no access to any healthcare or did not want to.
Maybe she did not work and live legally in the UK and was afraid to use any nhs facility since they would surely question her.

As pointed out earlier by musicaljoke, the woman did not appear to be dressed as a sex worker, maybe she was on her way to look for work, or if she was in pain, accepted a ride from a stranger to get to a medical facility? imo.

 

[jojojaja]

As pointed out earlier by musicaljoke, the woman did not appear to be dressed as a sex worker, maybe she was on her way to look for work, or if she was in pain, accepted a ride from a stranger to get to a medical facility? imo.

After reading more about the man accused and acquitted of her murder and the likelihood that he took her in as a hitchhiker, since the description of the hitchhiker he took on matched, plus her blood in his lorry (which it was likely to be, wherever she spent time, as she was bleeding and if poor was unlikely to be using any decent sanitary products, although sanitary products back then wouldn't have been too great). Why his description of her hasn't been reported more, accent, what she said about herself etc, he spent time with her and if nothing else was the only witness they seemed to find who spent time with her alive.

Picked up at Spitalfields in London, going North then changing her mind doesn't sound like going for healthcare. Which if she was Eastern European as many reports hint at, she wasn't allowed free healthcare and that may be why she didn't seek help.

The police also reopened the case a year later because they felt she may have been working locally in farms, and wanted to pursue that. I am sure I already said this.

Also in one of the links it's stated witnesses came forward saying they saw her in the woods, obviously alive and no mention of her being accompanied.

I don't totally buy the not being dressed for prostitution, something I have learnt over the years, from Victorian times up until the present day, many women have taken on sex work as a way to survive and not necessarily as a profession. I have seen photos of women and read descriptions of women who were not dressed in whatever a prostitute kit is supposed to look like. The police saw her as selling herself to lorry drivers and this probably as a way to get about and support herself, they may have been wrong and yet it's possible she did and without more evidence it's unknown.

The farmwork is very believable considering their comments about her being a country girl, her whereabouts when she died and the fact it was easily attainable work which was cash in hand with probable lodging, evening basic. It would also explain her being poor as it's a lot less well paid than sex work. Farmers may not be keen to come forward and state they were paying people cash in hand for work for fear of getting in trouble.
Mind you people driving lorries also may not have been keen to come forward if they had paid her for sex.

Maybe they should have offered an amnesty for info.

 

[dotr]

rbbm. Noting that the eye colour is described as hazel and the UID Doe is in fact 5' 1'.'

UK Missing Persons Unit

Case 06-024019
Gender
Female
Age Range
30 - 35
Ethnicity
White European
Height
155cm (5 Ft 1 Ins)
Build
Thin
Date Found
23 October 1979
Body Or Remains
Body
Circumstances
The Body Of A Female Was Found In Woodland At Bedgebury Forest, Near Goudhurst, Kent.
Hair
Brown - Straight - Shoulder Length
Eye Colour
Hazel
Clothing
Belt - Belt - White - Unknown - 2.5" Wide Fabric Belt With Gold Buckle

Footwear - Shoes - Black - Unknown - Black Shoes

Dress - Dress - Black - Floral - Black And White Flowered Smock

Jumper - Polo Neck - Black - Unknown - Black Polo Neck Jumper With Off-White Shoulders

Shirt/Blouse - Blouse - Yellow - Unknown - Yellow Blouse

 

[dotr]

ETA.

Pensioner is cleared of mystery murder. - Free Online Library

Free Online Library: Pensioner is cleared of mystery murder.(National) by "The Birmingham Post (England)"; News, opinion and commentary General interest

www.thefreelibrary.com

rbbm New/varied bits of info. Snippets from very lengthy article.

The Ripper’s Lorry Murders #1 | North Yorks Enquirer

by Tim Hicks 2019
''This leads us to one of the strangest murders in modern times.
“Margaret”/ “Bedgebury Forest Woman”(Case 58) Kent Police

“Bedgebury Forest Woman” refers to an unknown female whose body was found in Bedgebury Forest, Kent. Despite a highly commendable and determined investigation by Kent Police over many years, this woman has never been identified. As is their practice in murders where the victim is unknown, the authors have assigned her a name. In this case “Margaret”.

''The autopsy established that:

• The victim had been bludgeoned to death and died from massive head injuries.
• She had been dead for up to five days prior to discovery.
• She had an ectopic pregnancy which had been present for 4–6 weeks and bleeding for 2–3 weeks. She would have been in severe pain.
• Stretch marks on her stomach indicated that she had probably given birth to at least one child.
• She had prominent, visibly decayed teeth, her molars were very worn down and she had wisdom teeth which indicated that she was at least 30 years old. There was no evidence of her ever receiving any dental treatment.
• No nicotine staining was found on the victim’s hands, teeth or lungs, indicating she was a non-smoker.
• The victim’s lungs did not exhibit the carbon deposits typical of a city-dweller, indicating that she probably lived in the countryside.''

''In December 1984, the victim was featured on an episode of the BBC TV programme. Crimewatch (here at 23 minutes) in which it was described (accurately in the authors opinion) as the hardest case that Crimewatch had ever covered.''

''On the 22nd of February 1999, the victim’s case was featured on Crimewatch for a third time here at 22 minutes''

''As a result of improved forensic techniques more information was released including an updated description. Margaret was now believed to be:

• Aged 25 – 35, not 30 – 35.
• Build: Medium, not slight.
• Eyes: Hazel, not brown.
• She had prominent decayed teeth.''

Both authors are satisfied that Mr Pennells was entirely innocent of any wrongdoing and his acquittal was entirely appropriate and predictable:

• Mr Pennells confirmed that the deceased may have been a woman that he had given a lift to Keighley in Bradford on the 19th of October and then back down the M1 to London on the 20th of October. The inference being that he had spent the night in his cab. Hence the presence of fibres from the sleeping bag in his cab on her dress.
• The presence of her blood in the cab did not have a sinister aspect, because Margaret was bleeding from an ectopic pregnancy at the time she was in the cab.
• She had been seen in the lorry depot at Keighley, Bradford with Mr Pennells of her own free will. Her presence in Mr Pennells cab was entirely consistent with her lifestyle as a prostitute that regularly hitched lifts up and down the M1 with lorry drivers in return for sex. A common practice amongst lorry drivers at the time, sometimes known as “A ride for a ride”, which is not a criminal offence.
• The prosecution was unable to refute Mr Pennells evidence that after he had taken Margaret to Keighley, he returned with her to London and had dropped the deceased off at a public house on the A20.
• Two witnesses independently verified that they had seen the deceased on the 21st of October. The day after the prosecution alleged that Pennells had murdered her.

''So, in summary, there was an innocent explanation for all the forensic evidence and two witnesses confirmed she was still alive after Mr Pennells was alleged to have murdered her – hence, no doubt, the reason the jury unanimously cleared him after only one hour and fifteen minutes of deliberation''

 

[jojojaja]

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Police poster (therefore no copyright)

The Courier, October 17, 1980

The Murder Victim No-One Has Been Able to Identify

Found Tuesday 23 October by three horse riders in the afternoon, from the post mortem they believe she had been dead around 3 days and was around 6 weeks pregnant.

No birthmark or scars, never received dental treatment. Previously had a child.

Death from blows to her head by a blunt instrument (blood stained log found at scene). Nobody had tried to hide her body, which would have been easily done.

The area was searched thoroughly for any clues left by the woman or murderer as to learn the identity of either, the lake was also searched.

Thousands of man hours, police logs filled, finger prints checked, missing persons files searched including by interpol.
700 Weald farms visited and questioned to find out if she was working as a hop or fruit picker and are being revisited.

The story goes on to say how the police comment how extremely difficult the case is to solve due to the lack of clues to follow. Possibly the most difficult in Kent history, that this type of crime, with an unknown victim and no motive, are the hardest to solve.

Despite this they aren't closing the case and still feel someone may identify her.

They believe she was killed where she lay and not brought there.

Cranbrook Police Station Incident Room was reopened due to the belief that the victim did work at a local farm and they brought in 20 police from Kent HQ to go back to the previously visited 700 farms and 24 parishes to make more enquiries and to catch people who may not have previously been around when the police had called, as picking season had finished in the hope someone recognised her.

Funnily enough it then goes on to say about all the speculation from amateur detectives about who killed her, where, how and why in local pubs.

Witnesses saw her in the Sunday according to one of these press releases, her body found on the Tuesday, that roughly fits in with the autopsy findings. It also fits in with police beliefs that she was killed in situ.

 

[jojojaja]

rbbm. Noting that the eye colour is described as hazel and the UID Doe is in fact 5' 1'.'
View attachment 409430View attachment 409431

UK Missing Persons Unit

Case 06-024019
Gender
Female
Age Range
30 - 35
Ethnicity
White European
Height
155cm (5 Ft 1 Ins)
Build
Thin
Date Found
23 October 1979
Body Or Remains
Body
Circumstances
The Body Of A Female Was Found In Woodland At Bedgebury Forest, Near Goudhurst, Kent.
Hair
Brown - Straight - Shoulder Length
Eye Colour
Hazel
Clothing
Belt - Belt - White - Unknown - 2.5" Wide Fabric Belt With Gold Buckle

Footwear - Shoes - Black - Unknown - Black Shoes

Dress - Dress - Black - Floral - Black And White Flowered Smock

Jumper - Polo Neck - Black - Unknown - Black Polo Neck Jumper With Off-White Shoulders

Shirt/Blouse - Blouse - Yellow - Unknown - Yellow Blouse

I would say gold coloured buckle, one press release referred to it as brass I think, the police say gold coloured, but witnesses may remember it as either I guess, being a yellow metal colour.

 

[alb1on]

The David Fuller link looks a stretch. His modus operandi in the murders for which he was convicted was completely different. I am sure he is being looked at in other cases but a blunt trauma murder with a body dump does not fit well.

 

[jojojaja]

The David Fuller link looks a stretch. His modus operandi in the murders for which he was convicted was completely different. I am sure he is being looked at in other cases but a blunt trauma murder with a body dump does not fit well.

I agree.

 

[jojojaja]

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Kentish Express
January 18, 1979

Did the Murdered Girl Once Look Like This?

I'll leave out the parts already posted.

Police want to hear from people in the Ashway and Shepway areas, does anyone recognise her?

Police detectives want to talk to anyone visiting Bedgebury Forest between mid-day Sunday, October 21st and Tuesday, October 23

The sketch impression of the woman was made from photographs of the unknown woman at the Department of Medical Illustration at Manchester University. The police superimposed it on the photograph of the woman's clothing.

The mention of mid-day on the Sunday makes me believe this was maybe when she was last seen alive by the witnesses, or one of the witnesses.

 

[alb1on]

I may have missed a mention but I am surprised the coincidence of the 1982 murder of Jean Brook in the same forest has not been mentioned (and seems not to have been linked by police either). She was also beaten to death and left in the forest in June 1982. Although the 2 murders have been mentioned together in newspaper reports I do wonder if the absence of a police link suggests they have DNA or other evidence suggesting different offenders. The Brook case is also unsolved.

 

[jojojaja]

A clearer image of the location map the police put in their poster
(police map so no copyright)

The unsolved murder of sex worker found in forest

More than 40 years ago a woman's body was found in a forest and although her death sparked a murder hunt, no-one ever came forward to say who she was.

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[evilwise]

Whether she was a full time prostitute with a pimp or an incidental sex trader, either way my intuition tells me she knew she was in serious need of medical care. I think after considering trying to seek it on her own, she decided to return to whoever she was closest to and mistakenly hoped she could trust the most. Would have been better off with the kindness of strangers, I think.

 

[jojojaja]

The unsolved murder of woman who is still unidentified after 40 years

An extensive murder inquiry brought one suspect to trial but a not guilty verdict - meaning the case remains unsolved

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk

Revisiting some images on this link. The police poster in this case actually has a profile view of her, it's so pixel challenged that it's hard to tell if it's from a photo or drawing, however it allows for a much better visual description. Very sharp angles to her face, I think she's very distinctive.
Also I darkened her hair, I think the police could have done this and it would have helped make her more recognisable.

 

[dotr]

Trying to find more information regarding the Doe network's misidentification of the victim in 2019 iirc ( if i recall correctly) and wondering if some of the details provided by the formerly accused man, relate to a different woman and not the subject of this thread? imo, speculation

 

[Pinkizzy]

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We should check the David Fuller thread for other local murders.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Potential killers could be the Midlands Ripper ( Alun Kyte) or the Yorkshire Ripper, who were lorry drivers.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I may have missed a mention but I am surprised the coincidence of the 1982 murder of Jean Brook in the same forest has not been mentioned (and seems not to have been linked by police either). She was also beaten to death and left in the forest in June 1982. Although the 2 murders have been mentioned together in newspaper reports I do wonder if the absence of a police link suggests they have DNA or other evidence suggesting different offenders. The Brook case is also unsolved.

It looks like Jean was killed after she stopped at a picnic site and the other woman from 1979 was probably found at the deposition site