GUILTY UK - Bobbi-Anne Mcleod,18, ‘did not arrive to meet friends’ Plymouth, 20 Nov 2021 *Arrest*

[Skigh]

Yes, people are assuming sexual motive but what if he ran her over under the influence and panicked?

There possibly might be a motive other than sexual ,but I very much doubt he mounted the pavement and ran her over whilst she waited at the bus stop. There would be evidence left if he had hit her with a vehicle.

 

[BeHereNow]

He's been charged with murder.

That charge could be informed by his decision to conceal the body.

There possibly might be a motive other than sexual ,but I very much doubt he mounted the pavement and ran her over whilst she waited at the bus stop. There would be evidence left if he had hit her with a vehicle.

We don't know what the evidence is yet, we are just speculating.

In my opinion sexual motive still seems most likely but it just seems so bizarre I can't help consider other motives.

 

[Furore]

I find it unlikely he ran her over.

1. It requires high speed to kill a young pedestrian (40mph plus) into a bus stop would wreck the car
2. This leaves characteristic patterns of injuries, limb fractures, rib fractures and collapsed lungs, spleen and liver lacerations, etc due to kinetic energy involved. Beating strangling and stabbing simply don’t have quite as much ability to break the pelvis and long bones for example
3. The above is not bloodless
4. I work in trauma so this is my everyday

Nothing is impossible but I find this completely implausible.

stranger abductions are rare but this set up does fit a few of the known risk factors: petite, attractive lone female - easy to subdue, at roadside so easy to bundle into getaway vehicle, dark. If I was trying to think of a vulnerable target, she would tick a few boxes.

agree with other posters though he may have been unknown to him, it is likely he could have seen her - she went to the centre a few hundred metres from his residence.

another factor that makes him less risk-free is that he lives alone with his mum. His dad was a member of the army? Was there domestic abuse? Why did his parents split? What are his views on normal relationships? Who were his role models?

may all be irrelevant of course.

 

[Amonet]

Bundy was a good looking guy too. Is it really more unusual for the very handsome men to be psychos in the UK? Because in my experience that is not the case here.

I'm watching the comments with curiosity as I feel like there's some kind of 'lookism' going on here...as if there's a human desire that good looking people aren't bad people because they're nice looking, and that a bad person must be horrible and scary looking...a way to make sense of the world. But a very naive way.

I have noticed some attackers and killers have been nice looking men. Libby's killer, PR, he was a nice looking young man and look what he was in to? The boy who murdered the little girl on Bute was a nice looking boy (except for his eyes). But there was something very wrong inside those looks.

I think it's about some human desire to be able to recognise evil and know what to avoid. An expectation that a decent looking young man can get girls without attacking them. But what if inside they have the desire to feel someone's life slipping away in their hands? And remember it's a power thing, control over the life of another human being, the ultimate control to take the life of another human being. It's not about sex as most of us understand sex. That's what I meant when I said I don't believe it was about sex, yet I still expect some kind of sex assault component to it. The Yorkshire Ripper had a sexual component to it.

 

[miss-scarlett23]

He's been charged with murder.

That charge could be informed by his decision to conceal the body

As far as I'm aware, obstructing a coroner or preventing the burial of body would be a seperate charge.

 

[Furore]

I believe there is a long held continuously proven association between how much people trust someone and their attractiveness. It isn’t borne out of course.
In addition to which as mentioned, we rarely see killers everywhere. And if we could - we’d avoid them!

Indeed people who are attractive, trustworthy looking, charming actually have the largest access to a pool of potential victims and to escape witness testimony because they don’t look suspicious.

 

[Furore]

The most studied link of predictors towards violence are past behaviour.

from childhood up:

1. maternal caregiving
2. Childhood sexual abuse or violence
3. Lying, interest in arson, interest in harming animals
4. Being bullied or being aggressive to peers
5. Significant female relationships - mothers, sisters, girlfriends. Romantic partners

Any of drugs or a head injury, this won’t have occurred out of nowhere

 

[Normal Norm]

The most studied link of predictors towards violence are past behaviour.

from childhood up:

1. maternal caregiving
2. Childhood sexual abuse or violence
3. Lying, interest in arson, interest in harming animals
4. Being bullied or being aggressive to peers
5. Significant female relationships - mothers, sisters, girlfriends. Romantic partners

Any of drugs or a head injury, this won’t have occurred out of nowhere

I don't understand point 5.

 

[BeHereNow]

I'm watching the comments with curiosity as I feel like there's some kind of 'lookism' going on here...as if there's a human desire that good looking people aren't bad people because they're nice looking, and that a bad person must be horrible and scary looking...a way to make sense of the world. But a very naive way.

I have noticed some attackers and killers have been nice looking men. Libby's killer, PR, he was a nice looking young man and look what he was in to? The boy who murdered the little girl on Bute was a nice looking boy (except for his eyes). But there was something very wrong inside those looks.

I think it's about some human desire to be able to recognise evil and know what to avoid. An expectation that a decent looking young man can get girls without attacking them. But what if inside they have the desire to feel someone's life slipping away in their hands? And remember it's a power thing, control over the life of another human being, the ultimate control to take the life of another human being. It's not about sex as most of us understand sex. That's what I meant when I said I don't believe it was about sex, yet I still expect some kind of sex assault component to it. The Yorkshire Ripper had a sexual component to it.

I think there is also a misconception about the lives conventionally good looking people are living. In my late teens and early twenties I had a lot of female attention but didn't know how to respond to it and used to actively avoid such situations because I was so given to flushing and other such reactions not considered masculine. It wasn't really until I got into my thirties that I got past this.

Now obviously the corollary to this isn't desire to murder and rape, but my point is simply that it's wrong to assume this conventionally good looking guitarist was both confident and well socialised. Apparently there is video footage of him downing pints between songs at his band's gigs: was nervousness and anxiety attributable to this behaviour? He might have been socially awkward in spite of the 'lad' image he wanted to present.

I have to take some exception with the notion that rape is primarily about dominance rather than sexual gratification. Adherents to certain religions think sexual gratification is granted them via scripture and that unchaste women are 'fair game'. There is a humiliation factor involved also. There is most likely a nexus of motivation including power and gratification, with individual factors being more prominent given context. E.g. the rape of a long term partner problem is more about power and control.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, people are assuming sexual motive but what if he ran her over under the influence and panicked?

But she was - apparently - waiting at the bus stop - which is in a lay by. So he would have to drive off the road in order to cause an accident.

I'm just adding the pic here to refresh my memory. He could - just - have veered off the main road and knocked her over I suppose. But, as Skigh said, there would be evidence of this at the site.

Google Maps

 

[Scorpio63]

I did at first wonder why he didn’t have 100’s of fb friends like the other band members but that’s probably down to my own view of fb locally. My niece is fb friends with one of the band and some of her friends are fb friends with them too, but they are all around the 25 - 30 age group and frequent the places the band played at .


If only we all could seek help when we knew we had whatever urge/desire ?? To hurt another being instead of acting on it . The ripple from this has changed so many lives for the worst for their forever

 

[mrazda71]

I have to take some exception with the notion that rape is primarily about dominance rather than sexual gratification. Adherents to certain religions think sexual gratification is granted them via scripture and that unchaste women are 'fair game'. There is a humiliation factor involved also. There is most likely a nexus of motivation including power and gratification, with individual factors being more prominent given context. E.g. the rape of a long term partner problem is more about power and control.

RSBM - As a man, your opinion and notion of rape is flawed.

You'll never feel the fear that a woman does doing the most mundane of activities.

Rape is very much about control.

 

[BeHereNow]

But she was - apparently - waiting at the bus stop - which is in a lay by. So he would have to drive off the road in order to cause an accident.

I'm just adding the pic here to refresh my memory. He could - just - have veered off the main road and knocked her over I suppose. But, as Skigh said, there would be evidence of this at the site.

Google Maps

But this works from the assumption she remained seated in the bus stop and we cannot be sure that was the case. She could have stepped into the lay-by for whatever reason and he could have swerved in.

It's more likely she was coerced in with a sexual motivation but there are plausible alternatives until we know more.

RSBM - As a man, your opinion and notion of rape is flawed.

You'll never feel the fear that a woman does doing the most mundane of activities.

Rape is very much about control.

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I was talking about the motivation from the male perspective; of course the outcome in each case is likely to be the same for a woman: fear, powerlessness and degradation. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[miss-scarlett23]

But she was - apparently - waiting at the bus stop - which is in a lay by. So he would have to drive off the road in order to cause an accident.

I'm just adding the pic here to refresh my memory. He could - just - have veered off the main road and knocked her over I suppose. But, as Skigh said, there would be evidence of this at the site.

Google Maps

I wonder if he had pulled in to bus stop/lay by to drop someone off. Possibly the 26 year old who was arrested and released without charge.

 

[Furore]

Point 5 was about having strained, violent or abusive history with women apologies that wasn’t clear.

The injuries sustained after being hit by 0.5-1 ton vehicle are entirely different to those sustained from even being beaten due to conservation of energy. Pedestrians dying from car requires significant speed/being run over by a car causes horrific pelvic and skull injuries. It is very obvious immediately if someone has been run over as they can cat scan a body. I think it would be harder if those were the injuries to prove intent.

I also just can’t see how lethal force would leave no blood, skin (road abrasions are inevitable from dragging and rolling) at scene, I just cannot see him accidentally hitting her at the bus stop as a viable alternative. They had evidence for a murder charge within days; there must have been strong evidence of intent, not just manslaughter or dangerous driving.

 

[Doughy]

It could've been a simple "do you want a lift into town as I'm heading that way?" Cos that could be pretty tempting (however unadvisable) when it's dark & cold and buses take forever.

Wouldn't explain her leaving her baccy & airpods behind though.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I am surprised at the lack of an abduction charge so far, even if he did convince Bobbi to enter the vehicle under the premise of giving her a lift it would still become abduction the moment he didn’t let her out the car when she wanted to get out. I still think Bobbi’s belongings being left at the bus stop indicates she was more than likely taken against her will. But even if she entered the car willingly (which I still doubt at this point), it would still be an abduction as he clearly didn’t take her to her boyfriend where she wanted to go IMO. I can understand the lack of a sexual assault charge as that would only become evident after a post mortem, but the abduction seems pretty simple to prove imo. She was at the bus stop alive, and then was found dead near the beach while her personal belongings were left at the bus stop. He most likely used his vehicle to transport her, and I doubt Bobbi decided to go for a drive with a stranger instead of meeting her boyfriend as planned. But if for some reason she did, I don’t think she asked to be taken to that area. MOO

 

[mrazda71]

It is still very early days in the investigation yet.

We've not even heard a cause of death - THAT will tell us a lot!

Other charges can be added, as is the case for Damien Bendall accused of the Killamarsh murders - yesterday he was due to enter a plea but that has been delayed as he was also charged with the rape of 11 year old Lacey (was this the catalyst for the murders?) ...

Potentially, they won't 'bother' charging Cody with abduction if they don't feel it reaches the threshold, there's not enough evidence or it won't serve a purpose.

 

[Doughy]

I wonder if the mobile phone was also left at the bus-stop and picked up by someone thinking "cool a free phone" but then handed it in when they realised it had something to do with the investigation once the police mentioned the place she was last seen.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

“Section 114(2) provides that bail may not be granted to someone charged with murder unless the court is satisfied that there is no significant risk that, if released on bail, that person would commit an offence that would be likely to cause physical or mental injury to another person. In coming to that decision, the court must have regard to the nature and seriousness of the offence, the suspects character and antecedents and his record in relation to previous grants of bail.”