UK - Chris Kaba 21, shot dead by armed officers, now a murder inquiry, London.

  • #81
The police could shot his tyres...just saying.
I stand by my post made over a year ago.
Jmo, moo
With the greatest of respect (genuinely) you clearly have absolutely no idea about police firearms use, or firearms use in any sense, for that matter. Just leave it here would be my advice. I'm certainly not going to publicly argue with you but I you'd like a sensible discussion with someone who actually knows something about firearms please feel free to PM me.
 
  • #82
Chris Kaba was the fouth unarmed man to be shot dead by police in non-terrorist operations since 2005. All were Black.
Wow the Guardian really outdid itself with that framing.

Police have only fatally shot 4 other unarmed men in not terrorism related circumstances in 19 years, nation wide. That's a fantastic statistic considering armed police have 18,000 deployments a year.

That they were all black tells you next to nothing. You can't extrapolate statistical trends out of a sample size of 5 over two decades, and little more out of, on average, 2 deadly shootings a year for the last 40 years.

Also characterising Kaba as an 'unarmed black man' is really disingenuous to the established circumstances. I can't see the full article, but I can probably guess some of the other names, (happy to be corrected) Mark Duggen, Azelle Rodney, Jermaine Baker etc. Most of which, while unarmed when shot, had firearms intel, a gun/ fake on scene etc. Hence why firearms officers were deployed.

UK police have many problems, including with racism and outcomes for BME people. However, the police shooting people is just flat out not one of them. They actually have a really great decades long track record of shooting hardly anyone regardless of race. It annoys me that that whenever a non white person is shot by police in the UK. The papers fall over themselves to frame it like we're in America by trotting out the single digit list of names from this side of the millennium. Its shitty race-baiting journalism done for clicks. With no care for what their false impression stirs up on the streets.
 
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  • #83
You know, I get why people want to argue options that on the surface would present lower potential for a fatality such as shooting the tyres of a suspect's car. And I'm no expert by any means but throughout this case and its' aftermath I've listened to the opinions of a few former officers who do have that expertise. And my conclusion is...

There is no way an armed police officer should ever be trained to shoot the tyres of a moving vehicle. Even for a highly trained marksman like Martyn Blake that is borderline impossible and fraught with all kinds of unintended consequences. If an opportunity arises for the police to deflate the tyres of a suspect vehicle, they should operate a stinger device on the vehicle. Not bullets which could ricochet here, there or anywhere and seriously endanger multiple people in addition to the suspect.

JMO
Yes, you are broadly correct here. Police officers - nor anyone using firearms defensively - have any call to be acting recklessly with them. The oft-repeated question is "why couldn't they just shoot him in the leg, or something?". The reason is because that is hugely reckless and has a high possibility of failure. As can be seen in the case of the chap who Chris Kaba actually shot, this does not stop someone immediately as he ran a long way before collapsing.

The whole point of shooting someone, the primary purpose, is to bring a halt to whatever it is they are doing. The primary purpose is not to kill them it is to stop them. It may be that doing that will, in fact, kill them, and you may accept that as a virtual certainty, but it is not the primary purpose.

Shooting someone means you intend to do them great harm and carries with it a very high risk of death. If the situation is not so severe that the risk of their death is not reasonable then you have no reason to shoot them!
 
  • #84
Wow the Guardian really outdid itself with that framing.

Police have only fatally shot 4 other unarmed men in not terrorism related circumstances in 19 years, nation wide. That's a fantastic statistic considering armed police have 18,000 deployments a year.

That they were all black tells you next to nothing. You can't extrapolate statistical trends out of a sample size of 5 over two decades, and little more out of, on average, 2 deadly shootings a year for the last 40 years.

Also characterising Kaba as an 'unarmed black man' is really disingenuous to the established circumstances. I can't see the full article, but I can probably guess some of the other names, (happy to be corrected) Mark Duggen, Azelle Rodney, Jermaine Baker etc. Most of which, while unarmed when shot, had firearms intel, a gun/ fake on scene etc. Hence why firearms officers were deployed.

UK police have many problems, including with racism and outcomes for BME people. However, the police shooting people is just flat out not one of them. They actually have a really great decades long track record of shooting hardly anyone regardless of race. It annoys me that that whenever (and only when) a non white person is shot by police in the UK, the papers fall over themselves to frame it like this is America. It's race-baiting journalism done for clicks. With no care for what it stirs up on the streets.
The Guardian holds itself out as some sort of paragon of virtuous journalism when it is absolutely nothing of the sort. Perhaps it once was but not any longer.

It is becoming reprehensible, quite honestly. It seems to me to be going out of its way to publish click-bait nonsense in exactly the manner it accuses publications on the opposite end of the scale as doing.

They - along with a lot of the media - are continually trying to push this as some sort of race inspired state-condoned murder of an innocent purely based on his skin colour/race. They are using race in the same way as they claim to rail against.

This was an exceptionally violent, career criminal with a sting of stabbings, shootings and drug offences in his past. He was using a vehicle known to have been linked to shootings (at least one of which he personally carried out) in an attempt to evade lawful arrest and endanger the lives of police officers who were carrying out their lawful duty by using his vehicle as a potentially lethal weapon, not to mention anyone else who may have crossed his path.
 
  • #85
The Guardian holds itself out as some sort of paragon of virtuous journalism when it is absolutely nothing of the sort. Perhaps it once was but not any longer.

It is becoming reprehensible, quite honestly. It seems to me to be going out of its way to publish click-bait nonsense in exactly the manner it accuses publications on the opposite end of the scale as doing.

They - along with a lot of the media - are continually trying to push this as some sort of race inspired state-condoned murder of an innocent purely based on his skin colour/race. They are using race in the same way as they claim to rail against.

This was an exceptionally violent, career criminal with a sting of stabbings, shootings and drug offences in his past. He was using a vehicle known to have been linked to shootings (at least one of which he personally carried out) in an attempt to evade lawful arrest and endanger the lives of police officers who were carrying out their lawful duty by using his vehicle as a potentially lethal weapon, not to mention anyone else who may have crossed his path.
The Guardian has a particular hard on for shittting on the police. Ok they may begrudgingly report this officer is innocent... between three articles about how 'the black community' feel about an officer getting off - by being found not guilty of murder by a jury of his peers.

But then they gotta get back in their ACAB bag right after.

Read that and you get the impression police are pushing for the power to eat babies, shoot minorities and run over old ladies with total immunity. Actually pushing for:

Anonymity until conviction for offences alleged to have happened as an extension of their duty. I.e like this case.

Protection under the law for breaking traffic laws when on blues, which the gov trains and employs them to do. Currently, if something tragic happens, the law has no provision to differentiate a cop responding to an emergency from if you did 110 and blew through red lights. Most judges will make that distinction, but they aren't bound to it.

Make IOPC and CPS apply the same charging standards to cases where an officer is the suspect as they do to any member of the public. Blake is part of a common pattern. Cops don't get protection, their cases aren't written off. In general, the charging standard is notably lower with police and CPS because nobody wants to be accused of letting off a fellow cop. Some people might find that hard to believe, but how many co-workers are you willing to risk a very public firing for?

That inquests into unlawful killings and self defence meets the criminal standard of evidence rather than the civil standard . Apparently 51% is enough for an inquest to officially find an officer responsible for an unlawful death, and 51% is also all that's needed to dismiss an officers claim of self defence.

You can make arguments against some of those requests, but they are very reasonable. Boiling down to, the same standards of evidence as everyone else gets and the law to take into account circumstances were the government literally trained and employed officers to do whatever landed them in court.

Not, as the Guardian would have you believe, fascist cops wanting sovereign immunity.
 
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  • #86
I detest the Guardian with a passion! They absolutely thrive on the ethnic division incidents like Chris Kaba's police shooting cause in society, so of course they sent a journalist to Brixton, the home of the late Chris Kaba and a number of Britain's most infamous racially motivated public disorder events.


Reading the article I had an image in my head of the "C'mon, do something" meme - where the meme message is 'C'mon, start another race riot!'


JMO
 
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  • #87
I detest the Guardian with a passion! They absolutely thrive on the ethnic division incidents like Chris Kaba's police shooting cause in society, so of course they sent a journalist to Brixton, the home of the late Chris Kaba and a number of Britain's most infamous racially motivated public disorder events.


Reading the article I had an image in my head of the "C'mon, do something" meme - where the meme message is 'C'mon, start another race riot!'


JMO
The guardian has it's strong subjects and decent writers. It just has some areas that's it's really unhinged about. The police being one of them.

It's really stupid because it's not like there isn't plenty of serious, legitimate, articles to write on the UK police. They clearly care about the subject, but they pissed all credibility up the wall long ago by being so blatantly bias.

They trashed Blake viciously when this happened. Then when he's found innocent, do they reflect on their rethtoric? Nah they begrudgingly toss him a headline sure. Packaged between a 4/5, 'police are still bad though' articles, of course. Can't leave readers with counter programming like cop not bad this time.

People can't help but see that lean. Which means the next time they have a legitimate exposé about serious issues or scandal within the police, people wont take it half as seriously, because everyone knows the Guardian can't be objective.


Edit
On the other end of the spectrum lol, you of course have the Telegraphs take. Wildly different, but has a good birds eye animation of the hard stop. I don't know everything timed correctly to the cctv, but it's useful if the shaky body camera footage makes it hard to orient yourself.

 
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  • #88


Jeremy Corbyn, Sadiq Khan and Diane Abbott have been urged to apologise for supporting criminal gang member Chris Kaba after he was shot dead by police.

Reporting restrictions about the 24-year-old's violent past were dramatically lifted on Tuesday after firearms officer Martyn Blake was found not guilty of his murder.

But in the days and weeks that followed Mr Kaba's death in September 2022, several prominent Labour politicians called for 'justice' after he was gunned down and killed while trying to flee officers during a police stop in Streatham, South London.
 
  • #89


Jeremy Corbyn, Sadiq Khan and Diane Abbott have been urged to apologise for supporting criminal gang member Chris Kaba after he was shot dead by police.

Reporting restrictions about the 24-year-old's violent past were dramatically lifted on Tuesday after firearms officer Martyn Blake was found not guilty of his murder.

But in the days and weeks that followed Mr Kaba's death in September 2022, several prominent Labour politicians called for 'justice' after he was gunned down and killed while trying to flee officers during a police stop in Streatham, South London.
Well there’s certainly no apology from Corbyn:

 
  • #90
Well there’s certainly no apology from Corbyn:


WTAF....so far no police officer has ever been prosecuted for this....errrrmmm, Jezza - you are giving a statement literally in response to the outcome of a prosecution of an officer for precisely this!

It's genuinely scary how people like this can rise to the point where they are in line to control a government! Let alone how utterly offensive it is that he is essentially praising a criminal with a propensity towards extreme violence!
 
  • #91
WTAF....so far no police officer has ever been prosecuted for this....errrrmmm, Jezza - you are giving a statement literally in response to the outcome of a prosecution of an officer for precisely this!

It's genuinely scary how people like this can rise to the point where they are in line to control a government! Let alone how utterly offensive it is that he is essentially praising a criminal with a propensity towards extreme violence!
‘This sort of behaviour’ it wasn’t his behaviour the police officer was doing the highly skilled job he was trained to do.
Corbyn is the one needs to shut up JMO
 
  • #92
Does any one know if there was a toxology report on Kaba's body after the PM? I am wondering if he was buzzing on cocaine to act as he did.
 
  • #93


A teachers' union boss has suggested Chris Kaba was the victim of 'two-tier justice' during a rant about Tommy Robinson at an anti-racist rally this weekend.

Daniel Kebede, the general secretary of the National Education Union, made the comments during a Stand Up to Racism rally in London, claiming the father-of-one had been treated unfairly.
 
  • #94
Nothing of value was lost. just some folks feeling things and they do that allot most too much methinks.
 
  • #95
‘This sort of behaviour’ it wasn’t his behaviour the police officer was doing the highly skilled job he was trained to do.
Corbyn is the one needs to shut up JMO
That's exactly the point I was making.
 
  • #96
Does any one know if there was a toxology report on Kaba's body after the PM? I am wondering if he was buzzing on cocaine to act as he did.
He did what he did because he was a [link removed] criminal who had absolutely zero qualms about hurting or killing other people.
 
  • #97


A teachers' union boss has suggested Chris Kaba was the victim of 'two-tier justice' during a rant about Tommy Robinson at an anti-racist rally this weekend.

Daniel Kebede, the general secretary of the National Education Union, made the comments during a Stand Up to Racism rally in London, claiming the father-of-one had been treated unfairly.
To suggest that this violent crininal was shot because of his race is utterly vile, quite frankly!
 
  • #98
  • #99
I suspect that that will only serve to enrage me so I doubt I'll watch it, tbh.
 
  • #100

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