GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[choc drop]

My goodness this has been a long road following this trial, thank goodness it is now concluded!

The "fall from a window" takes on a new seriousness - many of us were speculating it was one of multiple instances - it seems to be one (or maybe more) very severe instances

 

[CaptainNancy]

No wonder her parents wanted her to end the relationship and tried to find her when she stopped being in contact. The details of the domestic violence are horrifying.
MG clearly a really dangerous man

 

[Yellowbelly]

So, how much time are they likely to serve? As all the crimes that they've been convicted off relate to the same event, I would expect the sentences to run concurrently. How much time they serve will then depend on the sentence for the most serious offence, which is manslaughter. These are the sentencing guidelines for gross negligence manslaughter. If the judge thinks there is high culpability, then the starting point is 8 years. With very high culpability, it's 12 years.

From there, the judge then adds time or takes it away based on aggravating or mitigating factors. Gordon is likely to do worse than Marten here owing to his previous convictions.

With high culpability, I reckon they're looking at somewhere around 10 years, and with very high, around 14 years.

We need to bear in mind that they would ordinarily be released on license after half their sentence, and that the time they've spent on remand will count towards the time they serve.

Gross negligence manslaughter

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

 

[Alyce]

The lawyers repeatedly tried, and failed, to get the case thrown out because of prejudicial pre-publicity mentioning Gordon’s background.
Strict measures were put in place to prevent re-publication of Gordon’s convictions, with stern words from Judge Lucraft when they slipped into a press report during the first trial in 2024.
The retrial got under way in February, under similarly strict conditions not to mention Gordon’s violent past either inside or outside court
In the event, it was the defendants themselves who let the cat out of the bag, to the palpable shock of jurors.

Gordon hit the roof when Judge Lucraft allowed his rape conviction in the US, and two more recent assaults on female police officers, to be disclosed to the jury.
The defendant promptly walked out of the witness box and demanded proof of his historical convictions.
***The prosecution moved swiftly to secure extensive archive papers from the Florida court on Gordon’s rape and assault convictions in the US.

Gordon’s strategic blunders caused him to boil over in full view of jurors. They were treated to the spectacle of his face contorting with rage and veins bulging, the very picture of a violent offender he had been at pains to conceal.



much more at the link...........

How the elephant in the courtroom crashed into Constance Marten’s trial

The scene was set before the case began, as Mark Gordon’s defence team raised the thorny subject of the ‘white aristocrat and black rapist’.

www.standard.co.uk

*** If only they'd asked, we could have provided them

 

[Sherlockhames]

IMO, Constance decided that Mark, and what Mark wanted, was paramount. Some of what was going on in her mind was no doubt down to coercive control, but all the same, Constance repeatedly chose Mark over her own children. It was open to her to leave him and, quite possibly, had she elected to live without him, she might have been allowed to keep all of her children.

I have sympathy for her as an abuse victim, but my sympathy stops when it becomes clear she chose Mark and their “relationship” over the safety and well-being of her kids. The history shows this. Why she did that, I don’t know, but it’s possible to me that the reason was a selfish one, not about being a victim.

Couldn’t have put it better myself. Was struggling in my own mind to reconcile her behaviour but I think this is exactly right. I do think she has been the subject to terrible abuse, but given the opportunities to step away she has never taken them. (And I think she has a terrible relationship with her family which is the selfish reason she stuck with him all those years - because she knew it hurt them as much as it did her. And how devastating for her family too as I think they knew this - her mother was at the trial constantly so was still supporting her. But I think CM relished trying to blame them for the necessity of her erratic behaviour).

 

[jackal67]

No wonder her parents wanted her to end the relationship and tried to find her when she stopped being in contact. The details of the domestic violence are horrifying.
MG clearly a really dangerous man

Absolutely and yet they called her parents racist and bigoted for trying to trace them!

 

[Deleted member 367833]

snipped from above....


"I have sat as a full time Judge now for thirteen years and I have never had that sort of attitude shown to me by anybody," His Honour Judge Mark Lucraft KC said about Marten one day.



Considering that he is the top Judge in England, that really shows the huge level of disrespect that the Court, Judge, Counsel and staff had to deal with over two trials and a two year span.

He's nowhere near the top judge in England. There are three levels above him: High Court judges, then Appeal Court judges, then Supreme Court judges. HC judges ("red judges") can and do preside over some crown court trials. He's only a Circuit judge (a "purple" judge), albeit the most senior one at the crown court known as the Old Bailey.

 

[Alyce]

So, how much time are they likely to serve? As all the crimes that they've been convicted off relate to the same event, I would expect the sentences to run concurrently. How much time they serve will then depend on the sentence for the most serious offence, which is manslaughter. These are the sentencing guidelines for gross negligence manslaughter. If the judge thinks there is high culpability, then the starting point is 8 years. With very high culpability, it's 12 years.

From there, the judge then adds time or takes it away based on aggravating or mitigating factors. Gordon is likely to do worse than Marten here owing to his previous convictions.

With high culpability, I reckon they're looking at somewhere around 10 years, and with very high, around 14 years.

We need to bear in mind that they would ordinarily be released on license after half their sentence, and that the time they've spent on remand will count towards the time they serve.

Gross negligence manslaughter

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Hopefully they will get the maximum of 12 years and perhaps there can be something added on for their appalling behaviour, attempting to severely disrupt both trials.
I agree, MG should also face a longer sentence due to his past convictions.
I also wonder if the 50% release on licence might be refused or perhaps stretched to a two thirds limit.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Incredible indeed and she still stayed with him after he threw her from a window!! Had another 2 children with him!
Why wasnt he prosecuted for that ?? Wonder the children werent removed there and then. Was he looking after them when she was in hospital?
I find it strange her not knowing about his criminal history? Thought he had to report to a Police station weekly?

“Why wasn’t he prosecuted for that”

I’ve been pondering that and can only surmise that CM maintained the fiction that she had fallen - unlikely given he wasn’t bothered enough to even call her and ambulance. So even though the police must have “known” what happened, I suspect the CPS felt they would have found it tricky to secure a conviction as she would have been called a witness to his defence. The family court sensibly took the correct view in identifying that he was violent but that she couldn’t be trusted to protect herself, therefore let alone her children, so placed them under protection. (Makes all the stories about her family trying to secure guardianship etc over them heartbreaking. Does seem like they really were just trying to keep the family together for when CM eventually came to her senses. But looks like she seemingly never will.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

So it was M who revealed G's 1980s rape conviction to the jury.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon guilty of killing their newborn baby

Police launched a nationwide hunt for the couple after they went on the run with their daughter Victoria to stop social services from taking her away.

news.sky.com

 

[Alyce]

Incredible indeed and she still stayed with him after he threw her from a window!! Had another 2 children with him!
Why wasnt he prosecuted for that ?? Wonder the children werent removed there and then. Was he looking after them when she was in hospital?
I find it strange her not knowing about his criminal history? Thought he had to report to a Police station weekly?

Am sure she did know. Her family knew and they would have lost no time in updating her.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Hopefully they will get the maximum of 12 years and perhaps there can be something added on for their appalling behaviour, attempting to severely disrupt both trials.
I agree, MG should also face a longer sentence due to his past convictions.
I also wonder if the 50% release on licence might be refused or perhaps stretched to a two thirds limit.

The maximum for gross negligence manslaughter (i.e. maximum under sentencing guidelines, because max under statute is life) is 18 years:

Gross negligence manslaughter

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

 

[jackal67]

Hopefully they will get the maximum of 12 years and perhaps there can be something added on for their appalling behaviour, attempting to severely disrupt both trials.
I agree, MG should also face a longer sentence due to his past convictions.
I also wonder if the 50% release on licence might be refused or perhaps stretched to a two thirds limit.

I thought the sentence reduction only applied for those that plead guilty? If everyone gets that its shocking !!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I know it’s been tedious but it’s been such a strange and terrible case to navigate by the court.
They have shown utter disregard to the legal process and tried at every junction to derail the process.
Gordon is a psychopath.

Ultimately it seems that CM is his victim but she's got so far lost along the way she became a victim and perpetrator. Now this is over, I hope she can be reached and rehabilitated somehow because intellectually I know that this is the most extreme form of abuse and exploitation that a violent man can do to a partner. On an emotional level it's good to know she can't harm her offspring any more. If she can ever tell the truth then she's got a powerful story that could act as a lesson and deterrent to others. JMO MOO

 

[Skigh]

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon guilty of gross negligence manslaughter over baby's death

Victoria's body was found in a shopping bag in a Brighton allotment shed in March 2023, two months after the couple went on the run.

www.bbc.co.uk

Marten and Gordon's actions 'hard to comprehend' - policepublished at 15:49
15:49​

Dept Supt Lewis Basford, speaking outside court, says "justice is finally served" after today's verdicts.

Marten and Gordon's "selfish actions resulted in the death of a newborn baby who should have had rest of her life ahead of her", he adds.

Victoria, who would have celebrated her second birthday recently, had her life "snatched away".

Basford says that the hundreds of officers who were involved in the search for Victoria "remain devastated", adding: "Today's verdict won't bring her back."

He says the baby's death was "completely avoidable" and that her parents had "plenty of opportunities to do the right thing".

Basford criticises the couple for their attempts to "disrupt and frustrate" the judicial process during their trial with "persistent interruptions".

He goes on to say that, as a father, he finds it "hard to comprehend" that the couple chose to live in freezing conditions with their baby, rather than providing her "warmth and care".

He also thanks the media for their help in bringing the couple to justice

 

[Alyce]

I thought the sentence reduction only applied for those that plead guilty? If everyone gets that its shocking !!

I don't believe it's automatic and their behaviour whilst serving their sentence will be taken into consideration.

 

[jackal67]

I don't believe it's automatic and their behaviour whilst serving their sentence will be taken into consideration.

Wow. I never knew this. Makes the sentence length a bit pointless then.Especially unduly lenient ones. I am shocked !!

 

[Alyce]

During the first trial, prosecutor Tom Little KC even suggested at one point that Marten wanted to “filibuster this case out”.
If the atmosphere in court was, at times, fractious, the presence of pro-Marten protesters outside did nothing to calm the mood, and Judge Lucraft said that questioning people going into the building “crossed the line”

How the elephant in the courtroom crashed into Constance Marten’s trial

The scene was set before the case began, as Mark Gordon’s defence team raised the thorny subject of the ‘white aristocrat and black rapist’.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

Am sure she did know. Her family knew and they would have lost no time in updating her.

I think she must have known too. Just another one of her lies no doubt

 

[choc drop]

This is all MOO. I am still convinced she is severely mentally ill. I believe the coercive control may have been all about worsening her paranoia. There was really no reason to have so many mobile phones, the fear of being hunted etc and no explanation that is rational.