GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[Alyce]

2006, and the then teenage Marten found herself living in a 12-storey compound in Africa's biggest city -home to a religious group ruled by evangelical pastor Temitope Balogun 'TB' Joshua – known to followers as 'The Prophet'.

Marten went there with her mother, Virginie de Selliers, shortly after leaving her £30,000-a-year public school.

'It was made very clear that Constance was being brought to get help – help in the sense that she was rebellious, strong-willed, disobedient,' said a former British member of the church who was present throughout Marten's stay in Nigeria

Congregants awed by videos of Joshua's supposed miracles made evangelical churches in Britain fertile recruiting grounds for SCOAN. Marten and her mother were among them. Described as a devout Christian, Mrs de Selliers had raised her daughter and three sons ever since her husband had left his family.

When not at boarding school, Marten lived with her mother, who became involved with Holy Trinity Brompton, one of Britain's most high-profile evangelical churches. Her daughter attended the church with her from about 2006, as well as its religious summer camps.

While it had no formal links with Holy Trinity, SCOAN relied on foreign support for a steady stream of disciples and financial aid. At the time, Fiona and Gary Tonge were key British followers of TB Joshua and Mrs Tonge recruited British supporters.

'I can remember very specifically the time she came with Constance. They stood out like a sore thumb, these really upper-class, white British people. We were told to take extra care of them. And Virginie was quite a presence.'

But while Marten's mother returned home at the end of the visit, Constance stayed on for three months.

'As soon as Constance arrived she started appearing as a visitor inside Joshua's office,' the source said. 'Joshua definitely wanted to recruit her as a disciple from the moment she arrived. She was taken to see him, which are things your average visitor would not get to do.




more at the link........

Is African church why killer Constance Marten spun out of control?

Lagos is a long way from the aristocratic world in which Constance Marten grew up - both geographically and culturally.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CaptainNancy]

Surely the Old Bailey has several copies of Archbold. It's unclear why lending one to MG would have required the purchase of a new one, either before or after it was placed in his hands.

It wouldn't have been necessary for someone to read and study the whole of Mrs Beeton's 2000 recipe cookbook in order to learn the rules for boiling an egg.

I assume all the relevant chapters and paragraphs were made available. Lucraft would surely be too experienced a judge to allow room for an appeal-able matter.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Piece by Helena Wilkinson for the BBC, who says "(o)ver the last 18 months I've sat through Marten and Gordon's two criminal trials" but whose article ends with credits also to three of her colleagues:

I've never seen a case like Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's - it was jaw-dropping

Now the case is over, the BBC can report some of the remarkable moments when jurors weren't in court.

www.bbc.co.uk

She says Lucraft threatened several times to stop the retrial for MG and to hold a second retrial for him alone next year, while continuing CM's trial.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

It wouldn't have been necessary for someone to read and study the whole of Mrs Beeton's 2000 recipe cookbook in order to learn the rules for boiling an egg.

I assume all the relevant chapters and paragraphs were made available. Lucraft would surely be too experienced a judge to allow room for an appeal-able matter.

The egg point was exactly the one I was making.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

The egg point was exactly the one I was making.

The point is that the request for Archbold was all part of MG’s disruptive act in court; there is a lot of reporting about this. The judge, who is highly experienced and the current editor of that text, was very well-placed to know whether what MG was asking for was reasonable, or yet more distraction and delay tactics.

Let’s say MG is given access to the 3,500 pages of Archbold, what then? Is he going to say thank you, OK now let’s crack on? Or is he going to say, hold up, now I need time to read and understand all of this? Hence the judge’s comment about whether everyone would need to wait for MG to get a law degree. Defendants representing themselves can ask for all sorts of accommodations, it doesn’t mean they are acting reasonably or need to be heeded. Defendants can not attend court if ill, and they can replace their legal team. CM continually claimed to have a “toothache” and both MG and CM went through multiple changes of counsel, and there is a point where it’s not about exercising their rights but simply trying to stop the court doing what they’re supposed to. By all accounts, that point was reached by these two. The request for a specialist text referred to by criminal barristers has to be seen in that context.

 

[Skigh]

The egg point was exactly the one I was making.

As people have already explained asking for the book was not because he really wanted to read the whole thing ,but as part of both of their systematic attempt to disrupt court proceedings.


The problem was he wasn't a trained lawyer. It became hugely complicated. He often went on lengthy rants.

Without the jury in the room he would flip flop between complaining that things were "not fair" to turning the charm on, telling the judge that he was "tolerant", "kind", "patient" and "gracious".

Other days he would shout at the judge as he left the courtroom.

He complained that he didn't have the same access as barristers. He wanted a desk, power to make legal applications and Archbold, a criminal law book running to more than 3,000 pages.

He repeatedly asked for more and more time to get his head around the case. It led to huge delays.

"Do you want me to adjourn for three years while you do a law degree?" the judge said to him one day.

At times Gordon appeared overwhelmed. He even pleaded for a royal intervention, describing the monarch as "compassionate and merciful".

"I ask the King in his mercy and those who work for him to help me," he said.

As the weeks went by, the judge warned Gordon a number of times that he might still remove him from the retrial because of the continued delays.

"It's simply him manipulating the system," the judge said on one occasion.

From the BBC article posted above.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

As people have already explained asking for the book was not because he really wanted to read the whole thing ,but as part of both of their systematic attempt to disrupt court proceedings.


The problem was he wasn't a trained lawyer. It became hugely complicated. He often went on lengthy rants.

Without the jury in the room he would flip flop between complaining that things were "not fair" to turning the charm on, telling the judge that he was "tolerant", "kind", "patient" and "gracious".

Other days he would shout at the judge as he left the courtroom.

He complained that he didn't have the same access as barristers. He wanted a desk, power to make legal applications and Archbold, a criminal law book running to more than 3,000 pages.

He repeatedly asked for more and more time to get his head around the case. It led to huge delays.

"Do you want me to adjourn for three years while you do a law degree?" the judge said to him one day.

At times Gordon appeared overwhelmed. He even pleaded for a royal intervention, describing the monarch as "compassionate and merciful".

"I ask the King in his mercy and those who work for him to help me," he said.

As the weeks went by, the judge warned Gordon a number of times that he might still remove him from the retrial because of the continued delays.

"It's simply him manipulating the system," the judge said on one occasion.

From the BBC article posted above.

A case of "if you keep on causing delays, I'll have you re-retried in a year's time".

 

[Nikynoo]

A case of "if you keep on causing delays, I'll have you re-retried in a year's time".

he didn't want to be retried because 'he didn't want to spend another year in prison'. Did they really think they would be released?

 

[Skigh]

A case of "if you keep on causing delays, I'll have you re-retried in a year's time".

How else do you think the judge could have reacted to their disrespectful behaviour and deliberate attempts to delay court proceedings ?

 

[Maltesepuppy]

I’ve just read an account of their behaviour during the trial (apologies if already posted).

I've never seen a case like Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's - it was jaw-dropping

Now the case is over, the BBC can report some of the remarkable moments when jurors weren't in court.

www.bbc.co.uk

Such shockingly bad behaviour and disrespect to the entire court. How will they behave during the sentencing? (If they turn up)

Apparently opposites attract but these two seem to have the exact same though processes and personality.
They both seem to revel in their perceived victim status. Before meeting CM was described as rebellious, despite being offered opportunities that most people have to work hard for and many never get. MG feels like he's somehow the victim of the violent attacks he carried out.
I can imagine the meeting of minds that took place when these two "hard done by" individuals met for the first time and formed their own private echo chamber.
Their disgusting behaviour in court just reinforces to me what I already knew.
These two only care about themselves and about defying the authorities who are so clearly "out to get them"
They flirted, yawned, exhaled and fell asleep as the last days of Victoria's life were being discussed. Can they get any more obnoxious?

JMO MOO

 

[Maltesepuppy]

How else do you think the judge could have reacted to their disrespectful behaviour and deliberate atte

mpts to delay court proceedings ?

Clearly, the judge should have apologised profusely, provided the Archibold copy and demanded that the King became involved.
And none of these disgusting ready meals for CM for goodness sake! A private chef please.
And mayonnaise from Harr0ds please. How can MG possibly build his own defense with Tesc0s mayo?

 

[jackal67]

I might be alone here,but I actually find looking at people's background really interesting. I would like to know more about Gordon's family background.

Yes me too

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Reporting during the trial gave readers to believe that MG's rape conviction from the 1980s was only brought to the jury's attention after he said he'd always been a nice guy and then the CPS were allowed to bring it up in rebuttal.

The truth seems to be that it was brought to their attention by CM before MG even took the stand.

 

[Alyce]

I've never seen a case like Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's - it was jaw-dropping​

When it came to the moment of the verdicts, the courtroom filled. There was silence. "Would the defendants please stand," the clerk said. They refused.

Guilty of gross negligence manslaughter for Gordon, the jury foreman told the court. Marten shook her head and crossed her arms.

Guilty of the same for her. She looked intensely at her partner. He leaned his head back against the wall and closed his eyes.

"It's a scam," Marten later shouted from the dock.

"It was an unfair trial," Gordon said loudly.

He told a dock officer: "I'm actually happy with the result because I will win the appeal."

He then thanked the court usher. "It's been a pleasure."

Up until the very last moments of their case Marten and Gordon were still disrupting, doing things their way.

A couple who were so fixated on each other, they were unable to grasp what the jury was sure of: that it was their chaotic and dangerous choices that ultimately led to the death of their baby, Victoria.




more at the link......

I've never seen a case like Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's - it was jaw-dropping

Now the case is over, the BBC can report some of the remarkable moments when jurors weren't in court.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

Goodness knows what they spent the money on.

This is still the thing that puzzles me the most. What did they do with all that money. They had racked up debts for unpaid driving offences and parking fines early on which the trust fund settled. Left countless properties owing rent None if this makes sense !

 

[Yellowbelly]

he didn't want to be retried because 'he didn't want to spend another year in prison'. Did they really think they would be released?

I think they thought they would be found not guilty of manslaughter, get time served or something close to that for the rest of it, and be on their way!

 

[Skigh]

This is still the thing that puzzles me the most. What did they do with all that money. They had racked up debts for unpaid driving offences and parking fines early on which the trust fund settled. Left countless properties owing rent None if this makes sense !

Thinking about it ,I do not think the figure of £250,000 per year is correct. From articles I have read it looks as though she received around £3,500 a month ,though more funds might have been able to be accessed by requests to the trust .
I imagine that they wasted huge amounts on various things and frittered money away on things like take aways ,drinks and large jars of mayonnaise.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Thinking about it ,I do not think the figure of £250,000 per year is correct. From articles I have read it looks as though she received around £3,500 a month ,though more funds might have been able to be accessed by requests to the trust .
I imagine that they wasted huge amounts on various things and frittered money away on things like take aways ,drinks and large jars of mayonnaise.

The figure of £250k is misleading but not altogether incorrect. But I think what the papers are trying to indicate is that she was able to draw from the Trust, tax free, an amount that would have equated to a “salary” pre-tax of £250k. So anyone else would have required a salary of that amount to receive “net” what CM was entitled to. £250k post tax equates to about £12k per month take home pay. And she may well have been entitled to draw that much tax free from her trust to cover housing and other living costs - but as she didn’t have a house/mortgage she was probably entitled to a max of, say, £3,500 monthly for living expenses which is still equivalent to a pre-tax salary of £55,000. But where all that went given their itinerant lifestyle I have no idea. Maybe it was just a lot of taxis!).

 

[Skigh]

Killer aristocrat Constance Marten 'befriends Sara Sharif's stepmum'

Aristocrat Constance Marten, 38, was convicted yesterday alongside Mark Gordon of causing their newborn Victoria's death after going on the run to prevent authorities taking the baby away.

www.dailymail.co.uk

During her trial Marten was an inmate at HMP Bronzefield in Ashford, Surrey, where she reportedly became close to Beinash Batool - the stepmother of 10-year-old Sara who was tortured to death at home by her father and his wife in August 2023.

Yet the friendship between Batool and her cellmate Marten developed, despite the aristocrat professing her love for children throughout her trial and claiming she did everything she could to protect her own baby from harm.

The pair once had the same legal representative, according to The Times.


As articles about Batool have stated that she was also friends with Letby ,it is possible that Marten also met with her on the same prison wing. I

 

[Sherlockhames]

We’ve heard and there has been a lot of reporting on Constance Marten’s circumstances and life until meeting MG but do we know what he was doing between being deported back to the UK in 2010 and meeting CM in 2016 (according to the timeline in the Telegraph article below (£) ?

How was he supporting himself the article suggests he was a labourer on a building site, but where was he living? With who? Did he have friends? I wonder what his life was like for those 6 years? I know someone in the thread earlier indicated they liked to know about the background/family of defendants but I think that CMs more colourful life story has meant his has been ignored. I am intrigued as to what he was doing when she met him. Did he spot her immediately as a kind of free meal ticket from the off? Did she pay for all their international travels (I assume so but we just don’t know).

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