GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[Nikynoo]

What on earth was it that damaged them so much that they couldn’t even accept the barest minimum of guidance and acceptance of complying with requests for information that would have enabled them to be a family unit together).

SBM. IMO, there is some discussion around this reasoning in the first judgement. The theme seems to have been 'no co-operation' from the very outset. IMO CM drove the bus from the very beginning too. MOO

 

[Sherlockhames]

SBM. IMO, there is some discussion around this reasoning in the first judgement. The theme seems to have been 'no co-operation' from the very outset. IMO CM drove the bus from the very beginning too. MOO

I’m agree - it’s interesting that in the 2021 judgement there is some questioning whether CM is under some form of coercive control by MG - but the more you read the more he appears to just defer to her. They were clearly enmeshed and possibly they just enabled/controlled each other to the detriment to both of their lives.

 

[Obergine]

I disagree with the judge's disbelief that they had tumbled down conspiracy rabbit holes about social services etc. I think conspiracy and paranoia is the heart of this tragic case. I note also that while there is no evidence of specific mental health issues that may in large part be due to a lack of engagement. Also, an ability to occasionally show good parenting is most definitely not an ability to show good parenting under the relentless demands of a real family life. I am heartbroken for the left behind children. The only one that won't be struggling with this for a lifetime tragically had her life cut short. I hope, above hope, that the others are in loving, permanent homes. EBM

 

[Nikynoo]

I’m agree - it’s interesting that in the 2021 judgement there is some questioning whether CM is under some form of coercive control by MG - but the more you read the more he appears to just defer to her. They were clearly enmeshed and possibly they just enabled/controlled each other to the detriment to both of their lives.

I still need to finish reading all the judgements, but my mind is wondering who was the true aggressor of the window incident.

Did anyone catch the ‘previous relationship and child’ in respect to MG?

 

[Skigh]

Constance Marten's 'life was ruined' by joining a Nigerian cult

Constance's mother Virginia believed cult leader TB Joshua, who styled himself in internet videos as a miracle healer, could rid her daughter of her 'rebellious spirits'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Through her connections to one of these churches, Constance's mother, Virginia, was persuaded to travel to Nigeria with her daughter to the sect's compound in 2006.

Virginia believed TB Joshua, who styled himself in internet videos as a miracle healer, could rid her daughter of her 'rebellious spirits'.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

[QUOTE="Obergine, post: 19479246,

SBM....Also, an ability to occasionally show good parenting is most definitely not an ability to show good parenting under the relentless demands of a real family life. I am heartbroken for the left behind children. The only one that won't be struggling with this for a lifetime tragically had her life cut short. I hope, above hope, that the others are in loving, permanent homes. EBM
[/QUOTE]


Definitely. I have met parents who were "fun and affectionate" but terribly neglectful. It was hard for the kids to have to understand that they were not "the best parents" because as children they did not know any better.
I second the same about the older children. Sadly they will carry some of the trauma with them. It is highly unlikely that they will all be together. One day they will know what happened to them and to Victoria. I wonder if they will wish to meet with CM and MG and how this could go.
I hope if this meeting take place that CM and MG don't retraumatise them with their shenanigans.

 

[Alyce]

DI Sinclair, who retired from the force last year after almost three decades of service, said;

This was a terrible tragedy and a really sad sequence of events that unfolded which was completely avoidable had they come forward and sought medical and welfare support for the baby. The discovery of Victoria in the coming weeks served only to reinforce what a tragedy it was.

“To not come forward, in my view, would suggest their actions were clearly selfish, putting their own wishes before their child’s welfare in their goal to keep avoiding the authorities and likely removal of Victoria from their care.

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2025/july/retired-gmp-officer-explains-his-key-role-in-launching-the-search-for-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon/

 

[Alyce]

The latest podcast - plus the transcript for anyone who prefers to read rather than listen

https://podcasts.musixmatch.com/podcast/the-trial-high-school-stabbing-01gw40zm7r6hc08w7jepkajncm/episode/the-trial-of-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon-the-01k05bfftr8yzbm0gc4cbrz94p

 

[Skigh]

The latest podcast - plus the transcript for anyone who prefers to read rather than listen

https://podcasts.musixmatch.com/podcast/the-trial-high-school-stabbing-01gw40zm7r6hc08w7jepkajncm/episode/the-trial-of-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon-the-01k05bfftr8yzbm0gc4cbrz94p

Thanks very much for posting the transcript.

 

[Skigh]

Dbm

 

[Skigh]

The pair of them treated those poor children like toys playing with them when they felt like it and then ignoring them when they had other things to entertain them.

 

[detective.moon]

i only recently learned about this case and did a lot of catching up in the past days! it reminds me a lot of a case that happened in france last year..

these parents too knew their newborn baby would be taken from them. iirc they both had been charged with drug related crimes and had lost custody to their other children. they did go to the hospital, where the baby was born prematurely, but at some point, while the baby still needed critical care, they took the baby and ran. the doctors didn’t think the baby would survive without the right care so there was a big hunt to find the baby in time. thankfully he was found alive and well, with his parents and grandmother, in a hotel room in amsterdam.

A prematurely born baby snatched from a French maternity is doing well

A Belgian prosecutor says a prematurely born baby boy found in an Amsterdam hotel room after being abducted by his parents from a French maternity ward is doing well.

apnews.com

 

[Alyce]

Marten and Gordon’s criminal trial was meant to last six weeks in the early part of 2024, but in the end ran for six months, racking up huge costs for the public purse.
The case, through to a second trial, has been marked by extreme rudeness and challenges to authority from within the dock, with Marten and Gordon seemingly taking it in turns to cause trouble.

At one point, Gordon asked for help getting a shave, and court proceedings were held up when he complained that his “court shirt” had been lost and his lawyer had been sent to the shops for a replacement

Yet there were frequent moments during the trial when they were accused of being the abusers, with animosity among their long-suffering lawyers and Old Bailey security staff who were visibly thrilled to be away from the troublesome defendants, if only for a few minutes.


The couple face years behind bars after their convictions, to contemplate the choices that led them to kill the daughter they professed to care so much about.

more at the link.............

Constance Marten: The aristocrat who became a convicted baby killer

She was born into a life of incredible privilege but gave it all up for a sordid life on the run with a convicted rapist. Now she has been sentenced to 14 years in jail

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Skigh]

Marten and Gordon’s criminal trial was meant to last six weeks in the early part of 2024, but in the end ran for six months, racking up huge costs for the public purse.
The case, through to a second trial, has been marked by extreme rudeness and challenges to authority from within the dock, with Marten and Gordon seemingly taking it in turns to cause trouble.

At one point, Gordon asked for help getting a shave, and court proceedings were held up when he complained that his “court shirt” had been lost and his lawyer had been sent to the shops for a replacement

Yet there were frequent moments during the trial when they were accused of being the abusers, with animosity among their long-suffering lawyers and Old Bailey security staff who were visibly thrilled to be away from the troublesome defendants, if only for a few minutes.


The couple face years behind bars after their convictions, to contemplate the choices that led them to kill the daughter they professed to care so much about.

more at the link.............

Constance Marten: The aristocrat who became a convicted baby killer

She was born into a life of incredible privilege but gave it all up for a sordid life on the run with a convicted rapist. Now she has been sentenced to 14 years in jail

www.standard.co.uk

It was also in an article posted previously that he 'lost' his trousers on the way to court.

I very much hope their sentences will be in double figures.

 

[Alyce]

Pic of the first floor window that CM was pushed/fell from

The Big Cases - The Aristocrat, the Convict and the Missing Baby

An aristocrat and her convict partner go on the run with their newborn baby. The search ends in heartbreak. Family, friends, and witnesses reveal the background to this extraordinary case.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

another pic of the window

The Big Cases - The Aristocrat, the Convict and the Missing Baby

An aristocrat and her convict partner go on the run with their newborn baby. The search ends in heartbreak. Family, friends, and witnesses reveal the background to this extraordinary case.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nikynoo]

another pic of the window

The Big Cases - The Aristocrat, the Convict and the Missing Baby

An aristocrat and her convict partner go on the run with their newborn baby. The search ends in heartbreak. Family, friends, and witnesses reveal the background to this extraordinary case.

www.bbc.co.uk

View attachment 602032

Which window? The top ones look like they only have openers at the top?

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes !! Was going to post about that too. I read it that he had had a previous relationship and had fathered a child? Totally shocked here !

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Skigh]

Which window? The top ones look like they only have openers at the top?

!Maybe the windows have been charged since they lived there. I imagine the whole flat would have had to have been refurbished.

 

[Alyce]

!Maybe the windows have been charged since they lived there. I imagine the whole flat would have had to have been refurbished.

I thought the same. Very likely landlord did a complete overhaul.