GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[Nikynoo]

!Maybe the windows have been charged since they lived there. I imagine the whole flat would have had to have been refurbished.

Shame the landlord didn’t fix the gutter at the same time.

 

[Skigh]

Shame the landlord didn’t fix the gutter at the same time.

Maybe the gutter problem happened after the refurbishment.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Those Court reports: they had been honing their technique for years. Toothache, delays, non attendance, obfuscation, telling lies, even MG acting as litigant in person and questioning CM in court! But Judge Reardon was having none of that and put a stop to it in 10 minutes. And then, making an official complaint that the court had been unfair.

All so familiar!

 

[Malleycat22_]

I still need to finish reading all the judgements, but my mind is wondering who was the true aggressor of the window incident.

Did anyone catch the ‘previous relationship and child’ in respect to MG?

I spotted that too in the Carmarthenshire document, “There was no indication that he would act in a violent way towards a child, but again she would have found it helpful to have information about his previous relationship and contact with his child.”

 

[Skigh]

If there is another child ,I very much hope everyone has the decency to refrain from any further discussion. They and their mother are not part of this and their privacy should be respected.

 

[Obergine]

I

I spotted that too in the Carmarthenshire document, “There was no indication that he would act in a violent way towards a child, but again she would have found it helpful to have information about his previous relationship and contact with his child.”

I missed that too! For some reason the aristocracy seem fair game for a bit of nosiness - they consider themselves better than us and have the resources to protect themselves. I worry for anyone else mixed up in this though.

 

[dotr]

''We can exclusively reveal how our officers launched the manhunt and played a key role in setting up the initial search.''
Jul 15, 2025

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2025/july/retired-gmp-officer-explains-his-key-role-in-launching-the-search-for-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon/

 

[Nikynoo]

Those Court reports: they had been honing their technique for years. Toothache, delays, non attendance, obfuscation, telling lies, even MG acting as litigant in person and questioning CM in court! But Judge Reardon was having none of that and put a stop to it in 10 minutes. And then, making an official complaint that the court had been unfair.

All so familiar!

I don't think they will ever change. Even with this serious charge, I doubt they have learned anything and even being apart for the last 2.5 years has not changed their outlook. They are so totally enmeshed, they are more or less one person. Their inability to take accountability for their own actions over a long period of time is astounding.

 

[Parker Knoll]

They are completely enmeshed.
Almost folie à deux.

 

[pokerowan]

!Maybe the windows have been charged since they lived there. I imagine the whole flat would have had to have been refurbished.

I think only one of them has been changed - presumably the one Marten fell through. If you look at Alyce's post #596, you can see the one on the right has a black border around the frame on the inside. The one on the left doesn't.

 

[jackal67]

I know - they were given so many opportunities!

And in their specific case if they had accepted and submitted themselves to just the initial minimum level of supervision and stuck with it they could have demonstrated their parenting skills (which it seems a lot of the professionals felt they had innately so were not a concern) then I suspect they would have been left alone after a few months. But they were so mistrustful they ended up losing everything.

I can see now why the authorities were so keen to track them down initially as I imagine all involved so desperately wanted to be proved wrong and that they wouldn’t end up being a danger to their newborn child. But it seems like in this instance the family courts had it exactly right - their own selfish decision making was put above all else - with devastating consequences. I wonder if, now separated by prison, they will get the support they need to get any sort of insight individually into how their personal behaviour was so toxic and how, far from trying to act against them, the state really was trying to help them. So many times in those court transcripts you can see professionals struggling to understand their behaviour and almost willing them to just do the minimum to comply so they could keep them all together. They even felt they were good parents. But their toxic relationship was something that they ultimately prized above even their own children. (The comment about MG planting Apple seeds in the garden with his child was so heartbreaking - these are/were good people. What on earth was it that damaged them so much that they couldn’t even accept the barest minimum of guidance and acceptance of complying with requests for information that would have enabled them to be a family unit together).

I honestly feel that it is not enough to call them good parents with just a few sporadic visits at a contact centre. There were no other opportunities to judge their parenting skills in a real life setting because they never once allowed SS to enter their home,
Easy to sit and play with children for an hour and be a fun parent when you have not had to have the other responsibilities involved with raising children isn;t it? Just walk away after an hour and leave the hard work to others
And it is hard work raising babies and toddlers. Sleepless nights, endless feeds and nappy changes ,tantrums, tears, teething, illnesses ,shopping., cooking cleaning washing etc etc,
I am glad to read that 3 and 4 were removed at birth. No way could these 2 raise 4 under 5year olds safely!
I really hope 1 and 2 were adopted together as they have both been together since birth and each others constant in life. To seperate them would be so cruel and damaging to them.
Heartbreaking stuff. JMO

 

[Alyce]

A few stats

The first trial was meant to last six weeks but went on for five months.
The jury deliberated for 72 hours but could not reach a verdict the manslaughter charges.

The second trial was due to last eight weeks but lasted 20 because of couple’s antics which they had plainly agreed beforehand

Their two trials cost at least £10 million and their antics are thought to have doubled the length of the hearings.
The jury of eight men and four women found them guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence unanimously.
One of the jurors mouthed the words: ‘Sorry’ to Marten as the verdict was delivered.

Despite Marten having taken £47,886 from her trust fund in the weeks before they went on the run, the couple lived like scavengers –
Gordon pretended to be paralysed in custody so police officers would have to push him around in a wheelchair.

Marten said one family member didn’t want her alive and said her family trust had told her that ‘if you have still got that black boyfriend with you, you are never going to get a property’.

After sacking his barristers, Gordon was allowed another opportunity to give evidence.
He was only asked two questions but spoke for hours



www.courtnewsuk.co.uk

 

[CaptainNancy]

Outrageous.

The Family Court docs demonstrate that the trust was about to exchange contracts on her house - but that SHE withdrew and said she no longer wanted to live in London.

And freely available features in mainstream magazines, previously linked on WS , demonstrate that black people have married happily into the family.

Confetti, as Joel Smith KC said.

 

[Sherlockhames]

And freely available features in mainstream magazines, previously linked on WS , demonstrate that black people have married happily into the family.

Confetti, as Joel Smith KC said.

Quite - her brother’s wedding was featured in Vogue in 2022 for goodness sake!

 

[Lucy6226]

A few stats

The first trial was meant to last six weeks but went on for five months.
The jury deliberated for 72 hours but could not reach a verdict the manslaughter charges.

The second trial was due to last eight weeks but lasted 20 because of couple’s antics which they had plainly agreed beforehand

Their two trials cost at least £10 million and their antics are thought to have doubled the length of the hearings.
The jury of eight men and four women found them guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence unanimously.
One of the jurors mouthed the words: ‘Sorry’ to Marten as the verdict was delivered.

Despite Marten having taken £47,886 from her trust fund in the weeks before they went on the run, the couple lived like scavengers –
Gordon pretended to be paralysed in custody so police officers would have to push him around in a wheelchair.

Marten said one family member didn’t want her alive and said her family trust had told her that ‘if you have still got that black boyfriend with you, you are never going to get a property’.

After sacking his barristers, Gordon was allowed another opportunity to give evidence.
He was only asked two questions but spoke for hours



www.courtnewsuk.co.uk

Curious about the juror mouthing sorry to CM given the verdict was unanimous.

 

[choc drop]

!Maybe the windows have been charged since they lived there. I imagine the whole flat would have had to have been refurbished.

I read that she was thrown/fell through the window - i.e the glass broke....not that she went through an open window. Hence the bleeding and lacerations.

 

[Skigh]

I read that she was thrown/fell through the window - i.e the glass broke....not that she went through an open window. Hence the bleeding and lacerations.

Since one of their excuses was that she climbed out to fix the tv aerial ,then I do not think it is likely that she fell through the glass.

 

[choc drop]

Since one of their excuses was that she climbed out to fix the tv aerial ,then I do not think it is likely that she fell through the glass.

Yes, but no one really believed that given her condition and the fact she needed 8 days in hospital.

 

[Skigh]

Yes, but no one really believed that given her condition and the fact she needed 8 days in hospital.

She needed time in hospital due to the internal injuries ,particularly to her spleen. There has been no mention that she needed stitches for cuts.
Anyway in the whole scheme of things it really does not matter.

 

[iamshadow21]

Curious about the juror mouthing sorry to CM given the verdict was unanimous.

You can empathise with someone whilst still doing your duty. I think it just shows the juror cares for the fate of someone besides themselves... unlike the defendants. It's a heavy burden to pass judgement on someone, even if that person has done appalling things.

MOO