GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Alyce]

Having not attended their retrial on Thursday, Marten alone returned to the Old Bailey on Friday.

The last clear CCTV footage of Victoria was played.....the baby could be seen wearing a white babygrow .....
Prosecutor Joel Smith KC noted the child had “no hat, no coat, no gloves”.
The defendants were wearing coats and had their faces obscured by hoods and Covid masks.

The buggy had just been purchased but was abandoned before the couple left London.....A similar buggy had been sourced by investigators and was shown to jurors.

Marten caught the eye of Nichola Hutton as she travelled through East Ham on a bus.
Wearing a scruffy burgundy coat and red scarf and standing outside a shop, the witness thought the woman might be homeless or have mental health problems........Ms Hutton said it looked like the woman, she later recognised as Marten from a news report, had something wrapped in her coat.
At first, she thought she was hiding stolen goods or was holding a pet, but said: “In hindsight I think it could have been a baby.” She added that she thought it was “strange” Marten had a bright red scarf wrapped around hair and nose “as it was not that cold outside”.

Constance Marten returns to court to view haunting last images of baby Victoria

Aristocrat Constance Marten has viewed haunting CCTV images of her tragic baby as she returned to her retrial.

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

 

[Cardgame]

CM was in court today. MG wasn't.

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2025-03-14/constance-marten-returns-to-court-to-view-last-images-of-baby-victoria

What is the thinking behind allowing a defendant who is remanded in custody to choose whether or not they will attend their trial, given that if they are released on bail they are usually obliged to attend because they are bailed to return to court? As far as I know, if a defendant who has been released on bail turns up at their trial on the allotted date, they aren't allowed to leave the dock after 10 minutes and say okay, that's enough, they don't want to hear the next bit and they're leaving now.



^ I'm not sure where the prosecution are going to with that evidence from a bus passenger.

I wonder if it connects to that awful CCTV footage to CM outside the shop, with the baby almost falling out of her coat. Very distressing to watch.

 

[Alyce]

www.thelawpages.com

 

[Bibno]

Tent like one used by Constance Marten shown to jury at Old Bailey trial

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are accused of the manslaughter of a baby who died after they went off grid and slept in a tent in early 2023.

www.standard.co.uk

Tent like one used by Constance Marten shown to jury at Old Bailey trial​

 

[CaptainNancy]

I wonder if it connects to that awful CCTV footage to CM outside the shop, with the baby almost falling out of her coat. Very distressing to watch.

Maybe to demonstrate that the baby was so concealed under the coat that the witness could not discern what was there - i.e zipped underneath the coat and therefore potentially at risk of suffocation. Given that parents of newborns are given so much advice about not causing suffocation - even those padded borders round cots (bumpers?) are precluded in safety advice. So being zipped inside a windproof coat with their face against clothing or coat would be a significant risk. JMO.

 

[GreekGal]

Do we know if either of them appeared in court today? I am feeling optimistic this time around that the prosecution are setting out a very solid case demonstrating that at each and every stage of their known movements, that the poor baby girl was neglected and uncared for properly - ultimately resulting in her tragic demise at the hands of these two selfish, deluded monsters.

 

[Alyce]

Sarah Hidden, of Seaford, East Sussex, recalled a series of incidents some time between January 16 and 27, 2023, including two nights when she heard a baby crying, seeing a couple on a path and also two sightings of a tent as she walked her dog.
She told the court she was woken one night by the sound of a baby crying as she slept at home.
The sound lasted for about 30 minutes and she thought it was a “younger baby” as it was “high pitched, urgent and quicker between breaths”.
Mrs Hidden said she heard the sound two nights in a row and it was being carried on the wind from the west of where she lived from an area which did not have any residential properties.
The witness, who did not leave her home after hearing the baby crying, rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes.



Tent like one used by Constance Marten shown to jury at Old Bailey trial

 

[Nikynoo]

Sarah Hidden, of Seaford, East Sussex, recalled a series of incidents some time between January 16 and 27, 2023, including two nights when she heard a baby crying, seeing a couple on a path and also two sightings of a tent as she walked her dog.
She told the court she was woken one night by the sound of a baby crying as she slept at home.
The sound lasted for about 30 minutes and she thought it was a “younger baby” as it was “high pitched, urgent and quicker between breaths”.
Mrs Hidden said she heard the sound two nights in a row and it was being carried on the wind from the west of where she lived from an area which did not have any residential properties.
The witness, who did not leave her home after hearing the baby crying, rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes.



Tent like one used by Constance Marten shown to jury at Old Bailey trial

january is foxes mating season, so the sounds could possibly have been foxes.

 

[Carriep]

january is foxes mating season, so the sounds could possibly have been foxes.

From the report of Sarah Hidden's evidence at the first trial:

"She said it seemed to be moving from the direction of a golf course on the South Downs and was “continuous” for about 30 to 40 minutes. On the first night it happened there was a storm and the weather was windy and rainy, she said. She told jurors: “I know people take babies out to get them to sleep but I don’t think they would do it in a storm.” The next night she allegedly heard a baby crying again and it was also raining. Mrs Hidden said: “It was definitely a young baby crying. It’s a different sound to an older baby crying, more constant, a bit more high-pitched, urgent sounding.”

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2024-02-05/urgent-cries-of-fugitive-couples-baby-heard-on-stormy-night-court-hears

 

[Carriep]

january is foxes mating season, so the sounds could possibly have been foxes.

Indeed. She's right that tiny babies cry at high pitch, but the higher the pitch the less far a sound will carry...even if there's not a storm...and how well does she know the sound of foxes to be sure it wasn't them? Foxes' mating sounds have evolved to carry over long distances. This sounds like better evidence than was heard last time from Pauline Mason, but perhaps not much better. (If the CPS call Ms Mason again, it may be that they're not trying very hard.)

I once mistook my baby son's crying for a sheep. (True story!) Only for a few seconds. But I knew where he was, knew he was definitely a baby, could look and realise there were no sheep in that direction, even though there were some in other directions, etc.

 

[JennieM]

She rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes - from the article. she must know what foxes sound like, and she thinks it wasn’t foxes that made the sound she heard.

 

[Carriep]

She rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes - from the article. she must know what foxes sound like, and she thinks it wasn’t foxes that made the sound she heard.

Indeed. That's why I said "how well". And it would be reasonable for a defence counsel to clarify this with her, especially given that tiny babies' cries are weak and high pitched and the night was stormy.

 

[Nikynoo]

She rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes - from the article. she must know what foxes sound like, and she thinks it wasn’t foxes that made the sound she heard.

If that was the case, why mention foxes at all? I suspect Baby Victoria was dead before this date, but we will never know for certain.

 

[Carriep]

If that was the case, why mention foxes at all? I suspect Baby Victoria was dead before this date, but we will never know for certain.

It sounds as though a defence counsel put foxes to her and then she "rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes."

She says she was woken by the sound two nights in a row, it was being carried on the wind, the first night it was moving from west to east, she thought it was a “younger baby” as it was “high pitched, urgent and quicker between breaths” ("it is a different sound to an older baby crying"), and it wasn't foxes, and she had seen a teal or blue-green tent.

I'm not sure whether she pinpointed which exact two nights. She may have done. But they were between 16 and 27 January.

Tent like Constance Marten’s shown to Old Bailey jury

Jurors have taken a first-hand look at a tent and sleeping bags like the ones used by aristocrat Constance Marten

www.brightonandhovenews.org

Constance Marten: Woman heard baby cry on South Downs

Crying was heard on the South Downs as police hunted Constance Marten and Mark Gordon, a court hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

Here are some foxes making mating calls, which they do during January. Got to imagine them on a stormy night, a long way away, against the sound of wind and rain:

 

[Nikynoo]

It sounds as though a defence counsel put foxes to her and then she "rejected the idea it was the sound of foxes."

She says she was woken by the sound two nights in a row, it was being carried on the wind, the first night it was moving from west to east, she thought it was a “younger baby” as it was “high pitched, urgent and quicker between breaths” ("it is a different sound to an older baby crying"), and it wasn't foxes, and she had seen a teal or blue-green tent.

I'm not sure whether she pinpointed which exact two nights. She may have done. But they were between 16 and 27 January.

Tent like Constance Marten’s shown to Old Bailey jury

Jurors have taken a first-hand look at a tent and sleeping bags like the ones used by aristocrat Constance Marten

www.brightonandhovenews.org

Constance Marten: Woman heard baby cry on South Downs

Crying was heard on the South Downs as police hunted Constance Marten and Mark Gordon, a court hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

Here are some foxes making mating calls, which they do during January. Got to imagine them on a stormy night, a long way away, against the sound of wind and rain:

I have foxes outside my house most nights in January. They make a racket and a variety of 'calls' (probably depedning on what they're looking for ).

I do think the baby was dead by 16th January.

 

[CaptainNancy]

I am not sure of the relevance of this anyway. But maybe others can explain. The prosecution allege (and the defence/ defendants did not offer any other info at the first trial) that from the time they arrived by taxi in the Newhaven area they were camping in the tent and later (after the death of the baby) moved to the shed. So we know that either the baby was alive in the tent, dead in the tent, and dead in the shed.

 

[Alyce]

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[Alyce]

Court News UK – Court News UK

 

[JennieM]

courtnewsuk.co.uk


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Why was she ranting? Did he ask for chicken without mayonnaise?

 

[Yellowbelly]

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Quite a few witnesses appearing over the last few days, but not much, if any, reporting. I wonder if there are stronger reporting restrictions than last time?