GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Skigh]

“Mr Smith asked her about hiding her baby's body under some rubbish in a shopping bag, saying: "It was a quite despicable thing to do to her body wasn't it?"

Marten replied: "If you are going to go down that route that shows the sort of person you are."

She then also later said: "To be quite honest your honour, I am tired of this whole process. I just find him [Smith] abhorrent. I just don't like the way he talks to me."

Towards the end of the session, she said: "I am so sorry I am not going to continue. I am at breaking point. I understand that I am being prosecuted but I am not going to sit here and be spoken to like that." “

Which perhaps shows the kind of person SHE is!

(Though it must be gruelling, for anyone)

A very contrived way of refusing to answer the question of how she could leave her child in a bag of rubbish.
Clearly skilled in using darvo techniques.

 

[Lucy6226]

MG is wearing a durag type headwear imo. These are usually fitted but his appears a lose fit made from a scarf maybe. Probably all he could get his hands on in prison!

Durag - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Alyce]

“Mr Smith asked her about hiding her baby's body under some rubbish in a shopping bag, saying: "It was a quite despicable thing to do to her body wasn't it?"

Marten replied: "If you are going to go down that route that shows the sort of person you are."

She then also later said: "To be quite honest your honour, I am tired of this whole process. I just find him [Smith] abhorrent. I just don't like the way he talks to me."

Towards the end of the session, she said: "I am so sorry I am not going to continue. I am at breaking point. I understand that I am being prosecuted but I am not going to sit here and be spoken to like that." “

Which perhaps shows the kind of person SHE is!

(Though it must be gruelling, for anyone)

Ah, that route, also known as the truth

 

[Alyce]

Are they really allowed to be that close to one another? Is she behind a glass panel?

I loathe these two.

JMO

I think that might be artistic licence for the purpose of the sketch ( at least I hope so )

 

[Skigh]

MG is wearing a durag type headwear imo. These are usually fitted but his appears a lose fit made from a scarf maybe. Probably all he could get his hands on in prison!

Durag - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I really cannot see any resemblance to a durag. If he required a durag for cultural reasons or to maintain his hair in a particular way then he would have been able to be access one from prison.

 

[Carriep]

I really cannot see any resemblance to a durag. If he required a durag for cultural reasons or to maintain his hair in a particular way then he would have been able to be access one from prison.

The headwear shown in the drawing is definitely a long-tailed durag.
Hopefully the jurors will be able to concentrate on the witness's evidence and disregard everybody's clothing preferences, who is standing at what distance from whom, etc. JMO but the big question from today is surely whether

* there's some rational basis for the being followed about notion and for the fear of an allegedly abusive male blood family member, or
* is she nuts to say these things, or
* is she a clever twister who is pretending to have had those fears but didn't.

Hopefully she was or will be asked, if necessary by the judge, what happened with the GPS tracker. Circumstances in which she found it. What she did with it. How did she know it was a GPS tracker. Etc. Also you gotta wonder whether there might be some records of such a large number of car problems. Perhaps the prosecuting counsel doesn't want to ask her such things because he doesn't know what answers he might get, so he throws the word "despicable" at her instead, which he may find doesn't do the crown's case much good. (JMO)

It might be helpful if the crown openly calls her a liar about the cars. Then the defence I'm sure would be allowed time to go and get evidence to back up what she's saying, if they can. The same applies to the male family member allegation. If the crown don't challenge these things, I can envisage the defence in their closing speeches pointing that out, saying "well you didn't challenge CM on that, or try to rebut". (Caveat: this is all based on media reports only.)

 

[Megnut]

So these two were modern day gypsies, rejecting social oppression, riding the wave of unconvention. Fine. No harm, no foul. Until they brought a child into the fray.

Running from imaginary foes, while Baby Victoria bore the unfair and utimate price.

Outrage over the question but none over how she left her beloved baby's dead body, thrown away like household waste.

Special brand of brazen.

JMO

 

[DianaWW]

While she’s entitled to give her reasoning for the choices they made, I don’t think it’s all that relevant. The questions the jury need to answer are:

Did those choices lead to the death of their baby, and if so, is it reasonable that they should have known this was a possible outcome?

That’s just my opinion of course.

 

[Skigh]

While she’s entitled to give her reasoning for the choices they made, I don’t think it’s all that relevant. The questions the jury need to answer are:

Did those choices lead to the death of their baby, and if so, is it reasonable that they should have known this was a possible outcome?

That’s just my opinion of course.

I agree. They and they alone chose not to dress their new born child in adequate clothing or provide a suitable way of transporting her. It was their decision to buy a flimsy tent and camp out in freezing temperatures.

 

[OceanElix]

MG is wearing a durag type headwear imo. These are usually fitted but his appears a lose fit made from a scarf maybe. Probably all he could get his hands on in prison!

Durag - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think it's more that it's PINK reference again

 

[dotr]

So these two were modern day gypsies, rejecting social oppression, riding the wave of unconvention. Fine. No harm, no foul. Until they brought a child into the fray.

Running from imaginary foes, while Baby Victoria bore the unfair and utimate price.

Outrage over the question but none over how she left her beloved baby's dead body, thrown away like household waste.

Special brand of brazen.

JMO

Not to mention, the baby was put into the garbage wearing nothing but a soiled nappy.
rbbm

Constance Marten told 'big fat lies' over baby's death, court hears

Prosecutor Tom Little KC says Constance Marten, 36, has lied to the jury about what happened.

www.bbc.com

''Victoria was found dead inside a supermarket "bag for life" wearing only a soiled nappy and hidden beneath "waste and detritus" on 1 March last year, the Old Bailey was told.
"This was a self-absorbed relationship between two selfish and arrogant individuals and caught in the middle of that toxic relationship was a baby that was manifestly not being cared for properly," Mr Little said''.

 

[elliefant]

I think he’s being a pretend barrister wearing a pretend wig. Either to try to fit in or, more likely imo, to mock the court/proceedings.

 

[Lucy6226]

I think it's more that it's PINK reference again

Men can wear pink. If he turned up wearing a dress I wouldn't care. It's just toxic masculinity by making a point it's pink imo.

The focus should be on baby Victoria and their actions that led to her death.

 

[CocktailQueen]

I think he’s being a pretend barrister wearing a pretend wig. Either to try to fit in or, more likely imo, to mock the court/proceedings.

This is the first thing that came to mind when I saw that image, too.

I think he’s taking the pee!

 

[Susikatze]

“Mr Smith asked her about hiding her baby's body under some rubbish in a shopping bag, saying: "It was a quite despicable thing to do to her body wasn't it?"

Marten replied: "If you are going to go down that route that shows the sort of person you are."

She then also later said: "To be quite honest your honour, I am tired of this whole process. I just find him [Smith] abhorrent. I just don't like the way he talks to me."

Towards the end of the session, she said: "I am so sorry I am not going to continue. I am at breaking point. I understand that I am being prosecuted but I am not going to sit here and be spoken to like that." “

Which perhaps shows the kind of person SHE is!

(Though it must be gruelling, for anyone)

She is a spoiled, entitled brat

 

[Skigh]

I think he’s being a pretend barrister wearing a pretend wig. Either to try to fit in or, more likely imo, to mock the court/proceedings.

I think you are right. He did not wear it during the last trial or when he was on the run when it might have helped keep his head warm.
He has deliberately chosen to wear it for this trial .

 

[Konstantin]

I think you are right. He did not wear it during the last trial or when he was on the run when it might have helped keep his head warm.
He has deliberately chosen to wear it for this trial .

He is probably wearing it for attention, so that people will focus on it and not on the fact that he and CM caused the death of a helpless newborn baby.

 

[CaptainNancy]

While she’s entitled to give her reasoning for the choices they made, I don’t think it’s all that relevant. The questions the jury need to answer are:

Did those choices lead to the death of their baby, and if so, is it reasonable that they should have known this was a possible outcome?

That’s just my opinion of course.

This. This is heart and centre of the trial.

 

[OceanElix]

Men can wear pink. If he turned up wearing a dress I wouldn't care. It's just toxic masculinity by making a point it's pink imo.

The focus should be on baby Victoria and their actions that led to her death.

BBM Sorry what? Don't be silly. Of course men can wear pink and dresses.

Have you not followed the case?
My point to be clear was that both MG and CM during court proceedings, have made a point of wearing a pink item, likely in reference to baby Victoria, on a few occasions now.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

She loved being a mom?????

She had ONE job.

JMO

Right?
This coming from the woman who intended to live in a tent with her first born calling it "an alternative lifestyle".
She abandoned her 4th born in hospital and would not be reunited with them because a covid test was too much of an ask.
She had all 4 kids removed because goodness knows what happened there.
She missed contact sessions because she worried that they had cameras.
She went on the run with her fifth born and it resulted in her death.
And she loved being a mum??
Good job she didn't hate it.
JMO MOO