GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Skigh]

The Shropshire star (link posted above). have included this photo showing Victoria in the Kebab shop.
She was entirely inappropriately dressed. No hat ,mittens ,warm clothes ,coat. Poor baby most have been so cold. She also would not have be comfortable in that pushchair.

 

[jackal67]

"Giving evidence, Det Sgt Jones said they had gone to the hospital after a baby was born in the morning and medical staff raised concerns over the identity of the parents."

I wonder what this means.

This case is now wide open IMO. Anything could happen, before we get to the stage in CM's case, when she reopens it, when her parents' use of private detectives was testified about last time.

I expect MG will be given a chance to testify on the new evidence even if he wasn't cross-examined. After all, this is prosecution evidence. (That said, it's not clear from the press reports how it is supposed to support the charges.)

The alleged event was six years before early 2023. Which number child does this make it?

(Edit: the answer appears to be their first child, going by this report:
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial: Four children taken into care
This is the same birth when there was the "Irish traveller" story. Why the false names? They can't have had any children taken away before if this was their first, although it's possible of course that it wasn't his first or her first - but it was the first they had with each other, according to reports.)

PAVA gas is synthetic pepper. A comparison with CS gas is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7d806de5274a676d532721/comparison-sprays-2414.pdf

Maybe false names because SS in London had issued a national hospital alert for CM after she had attended a London hospital when pregnant ? Their must have been some red flags around CM for the hospital to do this?

 

[jackal67]

The Shropshire star (link posted above). have included this photo showing Victoria in the Kebab shop.
She was entirely inappropriately dressed. No hat ,mittens ,warm clothes ,coat. Poor baby most have been so cold. She also would not have be comfortable in that pushchair.



View attachment 589187

And look at what they are wearing !! Coats hats and gloves

 

[Carriep]

Have either of the following been said by any witness about the baby who was born to CM in Wales in late 2017:

1. The baby was CM's first?
2. The baby's father was MG?

 

[Skigh]

And look at what they are wearing !! Coats hats and gloves

Not even a warm blanket to wrap her in or to lay her on in the pushchair.

Connie had had other children so would have been taught how warm new borns need to be kept .

 

[DianaWW]

Have either of the following been said by any witness about the baby who was born to CM in Wales in late 2017:

1. The baby was CM's first?
2. The baby's father was MG?

All of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's first four children were taken into care, a court has been told.

The Old Bailey heard the children were removed when a judge found there had been an incident of domestic violence.

The jury was also told police were called when the couple went to a hospital to have their first child in 2017, where they gave false names.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial: Four children taken into care - BBC News

A jury hears Constance Marten claimed she had not been to school - but was in fact from a wealthy family.

www.bbc.co.uk

The couple’s four older children had been “lawfully and properly” taken into care, Little reminded the jury.

Child of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon didn’t stand a chance, court told

Prosecution says Marten has told ‘big, fat lies’ in manslaughter trial and couple were ‘selfish and arrogant’

www.theguardian.com

The couple met in 2014 and had four children in quick succession who were all eventually taken into care after Marten gave birth to their first child using an Irish accent pretending to be a traveller, jurors have heard.

Constance Marten 'accused of bearing children to sell on black market'

The aristocrat, 36, and her 49-year-old lover Mark Gordon are accused of killing their fifth child Victoria by taking her on the run across England in January last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

Have either of the following been said by any witness about the baby who was born to CM in Wales in late 2017:

1. The baby was CM's first?
2. The baby's father was MG?

Not sure.

 

[Alyce]

Today's schedule


www.thelawpages.com

 

[jackal67]

Not even a warm blanket to wrap her in or to lay her on in the pushchair.

Connie had had other children so would have been taught how warm new borns need to be kept .

Well she obviously didnt practise what she was taught !! This photo shows they have absolutely no concept in how to care for a newborn IMO

 

[Carriep]

All of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's first four children were taken into care, a court has been told.

The Old Bailey heard the children were removed when a judge found there had been an incident of domestic violence.

The jury was also told police were called when the couple went to a hospital to have their first child in 2017, where they gave false names.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial: Four children taken into care - BBC News

A jury hears Constance Marten claimed she had not been to school - but was in fact from a wealthy family.

www.bbc.co.uk

The couple’s four older children had been “lawfully and properly” taken into care, Little reminded the jury.

Child of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon didn’t stand a chance, court told

Prosecution says Marten has told ‘big, fat lies’ in manslaughter trial and couple were ‘selfish and arrogant’

www.theguardian.com

The couple met in 2014 and had four children in quick succession who were all eventually taken into care after Marten gave birth to their first child using an Irish accent pretending to be a traveller, jurors have heard.

Constance Marten 'accused of bearing children to sell on black market'

The aristocrat, 36, and her 49-year-old lover Mark Gordon are accused of killing their fifth child Victoria by taking her on the run across England in January last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks for this.

But has a witness said the late 2017 baby was MG's, or was this only said by the barrister? Also has anyone said the baby was CM's first and not just "their" first?

 

[jackal67]

Thanks for this.

But has a witness said the late 2017 baby was MG's, or was this only said by the barrister? Also has anyone said the baby was CM's first and not just "their" first?

Do you think the first baby was not MGs then? If CM had had a baby previously before MG which is possible it has not been reported to my knowledge

 

[DianaWW]

Thanks for this.

But has a witness said the late 2017 baby was MG's, or was this only said by the barrister? Also has anyone said the baby was CM's first and not just "their" first?

My interpretation of everything I have read is that the answer is ‘yes’ to both of those questions. But I really can’t be bothered to go searching through anymore reports to see if any person other than a barrister has specifically said either of those things.

 

[DianaWW]

Do you think the first baby was not MGs then? If CM had had a baby previously before MG which is possible it has not been reported to my knowledge

They denied he was the father when they turned up at the hospital when she gave birth to the first baby. But they also gave false names, he said he was born on 31st April, and she claimed to be a traveller. So I would take that claim with a pinch of salt. JMO.

 

[jackal67]

They denied he was the father when they turned up at the hospital when she gave birth to the first baby. But they also gave false names, he said he was born on 31st April, and she claimed to be a traveller. So I would take that claim with a pinch of salt. JMO.

I wonder if they gave false names and denied MG was the father because of his past and restrictions which may have been put on him with regards to children ??

 

[Obergine]

They were already running scared for sure... then continued for another six years until they ran off a cliff.

 

[CaptainNancy]

I wonder if they gave false names and denied MG was the father because of his past and restrictions which may have been put on him with regards to children ??

I think that this is a likely explanation.

 

[bmacmillan1]

The Shropshire star (link posted above). have included this photo showing Victoria in the Kebab shop.
She was entirely inappropriately dressed. No hat ,mittens ,warm clothes ,coat. Poor baby most have been so cold. She also would not have be comfortable in that pushchair.



View attachment 589187

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This poor baby. These parents have got be both mentally ill.

 

[Skigh]

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This poor baby. These parents have got be both mentally ill.

And that is in a presumably heated shop. Image dressed like that in a flimsy festival tent on a freezing cold January night.

 

[jackal67]

I think that this is a likely explanation.

I also wonder why CM showed up at a London hospital in June 2017 with the first pregnancy. What happened that the hospital then put out national hospital alert on CM?

 

[CaptainNancy]

After all, this is prosecution evidence. (That said, it's not clear from the press reports how it is supposed to support the charges.)

It possibly counters his description last week about his values and empathy…and therefore reveals him an unreliable witness

It possibly sheds some light on reasons why subsequently SS / family courts judged him not a safe parent, since he had an uncontrolled violent outburst against two female officers… in the context of his other life history and legal status. This potentially:
Gives rise to questions about the claims that MG and CM were fleeing injustice when they went off radar with Victoria and
Raises questions about CM’s priorities and view of safe parenting having seen him have such an outburst, when she could have had other options. For instance, if I remember correctly it would have been after this incident that she was given a mother and baby foster placement?

JMOO.