GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[iamshadow21]

How many of your 7 bullet points applied when they had their first child, other than that MG had committed serious crimes almost 30 years before, when he was a teenager, for which he'd served 20 years in prison? Are women not allowed to marry such men and raise children with them?

And if the CPS do not care about their relationship, why did the CPS's main representative at their trial refer to what he called their "self-absorbed relationship"? That has been reported. It is a comment about their relationship (not MO but a fact) and was said by the CPS's barrister on behalf of his client, the CPS, in his closing speech, where it is his job to summarise the CPS case. And although I'm not sure there has been any evidence to this effect, there has certainly been a considerable amount of speculation that the authorities would have "allowed" her to stay with her babies so long as she didn't live with the baby's father, her husband.

I have no idea who the alleged instance (let alone any "likely more" alleged instances) of domestic abuse is supposed to have been committed by, or against. The only instance of abuse I am aware of having been alleged in court was alleged by CM to have been committed by one of her male blood family members, which she said she spoke out about.

They were pretty sure he pushed CM out a window.

MOO

 

[DianaWW]

How many of your 7 bullet points applied when they had their first child, other than that MG had committed serious crimes almost 30 years before, when he was a teenager, for which he'd served 20 years in prison? Are women not allowed to marry such men and raise children with them?

And if the CPS do not care about their relationship, why did the CPS's main representative at their trial refer to what he called their "self-absorbed relationship"? That has been reported. It is a comment about their relationship (not MO but a fact) and was said by the CPS's barrister on behalf of his client, the CPS, in his closing speech, where it is his job to summarise the CPS case. And although I'm not sure there has been any evidence to this effect, there has certainly been a considerable amount of speculation that other authorities, not the CPS, would have "allowed" her to stay with her babies so long as she didn't live with the babies' father, her husband.

I have no idea who the alleged instance (let alone any "likely more" alleged instances) of domestic abuse is supposed to have been committed by, or against. The only allegation of abuse I am aware of having been made in court was the one that was alleged by CM, which she said was committed by one of her male blood family members, an instance that she said she spoke out about.

PS Is the case on today??

There were also already concerns about the living conditions at this point. The reports have been shared multiple times on the thread, so I won't share them again.

There will also be a lot of family court information that we are not privy to. There would not have been a national alert out before the birth of the first child for no reason. The authorities didn't pick their names out of thin air and decide to involve themselves on a whim. JMO.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

How many of your 7 bullet points applied when they had their first child, other than that MG had committed serious crimes almost 30 years before, when he was a teenager, for which he'd served 20 years in prison? Are women not allowed to marry such men and have and raise children with them?

And if the CPS do not care about their relationship, why did the CPS's main representative at their trial refer to what he called their "self-absorbed relationship"? That has been reported. It is a comment about their relationship (not MO but a fact) and was said by the CPS's barrister on behalf of his client, the CPS, in his closing speech, where it is his job to summarise the CPS case. And although I'm not sure there has been any evidence to this effect, there has certainly been a considerable amount of speculation that other authorities, not the CPS, would have "allowed" her to stay with her babies so long as she didn't live with the babies' father, her husband.

I have no idea who the alleged instance (let alone any "likely more" alleged instances) of domestic abuse is supposed to have been committed by, or against. The only allegation of intra-family abuse I am aware of having been made in court was the one that was alleged by CM, which she said was committed by one of her male blood family members, an instance that she said she spoke out about. People who allege instances of abuse should IMO be listened to. I would be interested to learn of any other instances of abuse that have been alleged in evidence - namely in the evidence on which the charges of manslaughter and causing or allowing death are being tried - other than that one.

PS Is the case on today??

Two points, actually
It is not that CM would not have been "allowed" to have children with MG. SS would have to ascertain first that he was no longer a risk to any child. This override her "rights" to raise children in a potentially harmful environment.
Given the severity of the crimes, it is proportionate to risk asses.
The fact that he spent 20 years in prison is neither here nor there if he had not changed the man he had become. Was he remorseful or had he come out even more violent after 20 years in prison?
SS would have wanted to know, and for good reason.
The other point is that they were living in a tent with baby #1..not only they needed a SS to point out how inappropriate this was, their response was "don't judge".
The DA incident between them has been cited as the reason for removing the children. I say likely more because it is incredibly rare to remove children after one incident or maybe there were other concerns.
It's irrelevant who perpetrated the abuse on whom..the point is that children were exposed.
It's perfectly possible that SS said they could keep children as long as they didn't continue the relationship *as to not expose the children*.
If they chose to be together, this is a self-absorbed relationship, where the children are not prioritised.
JMO MOO

 

[Alyce]

One bonus of being a Websleuths Guardian is the longer length of time allowed for an edit.

 

[Yellowbelly]

Looking at the court listings on Law Pages, it would appear that the trial hasn't yet resumed since it adjourned on Tuesday afternoon.

Old Bailey - Central Criminal Court Listings, Daily Hearings, Cases & Details

Old Bailey, Central Criminal Crown Court Listings, Cases, hearings, Results, UK

www.thelawpages.com

 

[Nikynoo]

How many of your 7 bullet points applied when they had their first child, other than that MG had committed serious crimes almost 30 years before, when he was a teenager, for which he'd served 20 years in prison? Are women not allowed to marry such men and have and raise children with them?

And if the CPS do not care about their relationship, why did the CPS's main representative at their trial refer to what he called their "self-absorbed relationship"? That has been reported. It is a comment about their relationship (not MO but a fact) and was said by the CPS's barrister on behalf of his client, the CPS, in his closing speech, where it is his job to summarise the CPS case. And although I'm not sure there has been any evidence to this effect, there has certainly been a considerable amount of speculation that other authorities, not the CPS, would have "allowed" her to stay with her babies so long as she didn't live with the babies' father, her husband.

I have no idea who the alleged instance (let alone any "likely more" alleged instances) of domestic abuse is supposed to have been committed by, or against. The only allegation of intra-family abuse I am aware of having been made in court was the one that was alleged by CM, which she said was committed by one of her male blood family members, an instance that she said she spoke out about. People who allege instances of abuse should IMO be listened to. I would be interested to learn of any other instances of abuse that have been alleged in evidence - namely in the evidence on which the charges of manslaughter and causing or allowing death are being tried - other than that one.

PS Is the case on today??

In the first trial, it was reported that SS became involved shortly before the birth of their first child. The couple were under SS review for approx 18 months, then they were discharged from SS review as they were deemed to have made adequate progress to not require SS involvement. The couple then moved from Wales (if I remember correctly) to London, where eventually, SS became involved with the family again. Proceedings to remove the (3) children were instigated and the events after the birth of the 4th child, was the final nail in the coffin for the children to remain in their care. There was extensive reporting during the first trial of the events leading to the removal of the children and extracts of remarks made by the family court judge. It may be worth trying to find the podcasts we all discussed last time (sorry I cannot remember where they were), as they will definately give you a flavour of what was happening in respect to the children.

 

[Carriep]

When has this case been adjourned to?? The last report was from Tuesday, of the prosecution's closing speech? Has something happened or is it just that someone is unavailable?

 

[AcerPacer]

In the first trial, it was reported that SS became involved shortly before the birth of their first child. The couple were under SS review for approx 18 months, then they were discharged from SS review as they were deemed to have made adequate progress to not require SS involvement. The couple then moved from Wales (if I remember correctly) to London, where eventually, SS became involved with the family again. Proceedings to remove the (3) children were instigated and the events after the birth of the 4th child, was the final nail in the coffin for the children to remain in their care. There was extensive reporting during the first trial of the events leading to the removal of the children and extracts of remarks made by the family court judge. It may be worth trying to find the podcasts we all discussed last time (sorry I cannot remember where they were), as they will definately give you a flavour of what was happening in respect to the children.

Oh gosh I'd love to listen to these podcasts, PLEASE can anyone remember/know where to find them?

 

[Nikynoo]

Oh gosh I'd love to listen to these podcasts, PLEASE can anyone remember/know where to find them?

If you google Constance marten podcast the two that were listened to were “In Court’ which is a BBC podcast and ‘The Trial’ which was by daily mail journalists and I think can be found on Spotify

 

[AcerPacer]

If you google Constance marten podcast the two that were listened to were “In Court’ which is a BBC podcast and ‘The Trial’ which was by daily mail journalists and I think can be found on Spotify

Thank you!

 

[Carriep]

I was re-reading CM's father's public statement from Feb 2023:

Constance Marten’s father’s statement in full as he calls for probe into cult abuse

‘The stories of the abuse are shocking and heart-rending’

www.independent.co.uk

^ That's it in full. He spends most of it talking about her time with a Christian religious organisation, or cult, in Nigeria, where she spent "five, maybe six months" 17 years earlier, in 2006. She turned 19 years old in that year.

His actual appeal made directly to his daughter was from the preceding month and is here:

‘Beyond painful’: Dad of runaway aristocrat pleads with daughter to turn herself in

Exclusive: ‘I wish her to know she is loved whatever the circumstances,’ says Napier Marten

www.independent.co.uk

"Darling Constance even though we remain estranged at the moment, I stand by, as I have always done and as the family has always done, to do whatever is necessary for your safe return to us."

"The past eight years have been beyond painful for all the family as well as your friends, as they must have been for you. And to see you so vulnerable again is testing in the extreme."

BBM

I wonder what had changed most in those 17 years, between when she was 19 and when she was 36.

Was it

a) the kind of person that she was, the type of way she saw things
or
b) the situation that she was getting away from when she joined the cult ?

 

[Carriep]

The case is listed for 10am on Monday 12 June according to Courtserve.com.

 

[Alyce]

www.courtserve.net



The Crown Court at Central Criminal Court

Daily Courtroom List for Monday 09 June 2025

FINAL 1

​

 

[Alyce]

Yes !


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Skigh]

Yes !


www.thelawpages.com

View attachment 593316

Oh to be a fly on the wall !

 

[Alyce]

Full schedule for this morning


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Alyce]

The partner of wealthy aristocrat Constance Marten has described the prosecution case in their trial over the death of their baby as “like a script from a movie”

In his closing speech on Monday, Gordon, who is representing himself, told jurors: “The prosecution’s case is characterised, or simply put, as one of speculation.
“The prosecution would like you the jury to believe something that despite all the theatrics, it is just a show, an act.
“My speech will demonstrate that the whole prosecution in this case is like a script from a movie, indeed a fictional novel.
“You will observe where the prosecution has just made things up and filled in the blanks in support of the plot, the narrative, the theme of the story.”
Gordon told the court: “The conditions in the tent were according to my evidence the right standard and posed no threat to Victoria. We are experienced campers.”

The defendant, who wore a light blue shirt and pale orange head covering in the witness box, told jurors he and Marten, whom he called his wife, had pitched a tent “in a sheltered area with branches of a fallen tree”.
“Its (the fallen tree’s) significance is added insultation and an effective wind barrier,” he told the court.

He showed jurors an image where he is wearing layered clothing, and said: “We had various items on our body hidden from view. These items as well as my wife’s excessive body fat … I am pointing that out to the jury as that is a relevant fact.”

The 51-year-old said: “It seems, by ignoring the facts which are all the time present, those who are actually responsible for triggering the events remain in the shadows. There are those who would like to alter the truth.

“There was no interim care order in place which gave the state custody or a right to start the great chase.”

Constance Marten’s partner tells court prosecution case is ‘like a movie script’

Mark Gordon, 51, told jurors: ‘The whole prosecution in this case is like a script from a movie, indeed a fictional novel.’

www.timesandstar.co.uk

 

[Skigh]

“My speech will demonstrate that the whole prosecution in this case is like a script from a movie, indeed a fictional novel.

I am sure I have heard this somewhere else . The whole thing being like a fictional novel.

 

[Alyce]

We are experienced campers.

Really not sure where to start with that line..... the Argos festival tent, the temperature on the Downs in January, a very young, fragile newborn with inadequate clothing.

 

[Skigh]

He showed jurors an image where he is wearing layered clothing

What a shame Victoria was not seen wearing layered clothing.