UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Rolypolyoly]

rbbm

Fugitive aristocrat was a good mother and did nothing wrong, partner told police

Gordon suggested Marten was suffering from ‘a post-traumatic thing’

www.independent.co.uk

“She is a very special person. She’s an awesome woman and she would never do anything to harm a child under any circumstances,” he said.

He told police that they had wanted to “safeguard” the child, the “whole thing” was for her and what happened could not have been predicted.
Gordon told officers: “What have I done that you don’t think is right here?''
View attachment 484686

'He told me not to scream or he'd kill my kids'​

Mother raped by man on the run with aristocrat tells of her ordeal

Birmingham-born rapist Mark Gordon was jailed for 40 years after breaking into a neighbour's home in Florida in 1989, where he was living with his family aged 14. He is on the run with his partner and baby

www.dailymail.co.uk

''The victim of a convicted rapist who is on the run with his aristocrat partner and their baby today told how he threatened to kill her sleeping children during a four-hour attack in 1989.
The mother-of-two was held captive during the burglary with a pair of garden shears and a kitchen knife.''

Couldn't have been predicted? In what delusion?

 

[Lolabear]

Absolutely hilarious that they believe her parenting skills were awesome...4 kids removed and one passed away...sounds like they were fantastic parents smh

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Couldn't have been predicted? In what delusion?

Is he deluding himself or attempting to deceive others is what I'd be interested to know.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Is he deluding himself or attempting to deceive others is what I'd be interested to know.

I think himself generally, they both seem to genuinely believe they are the victims here. Of society in general.
Northing is their fault, it's the rest of us who are wrong.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think himself generally, they both seem to genuinely believe they are the victims here. Of society in general.
Northing is their fault, it's the rest of us who are wrong.

Some people quite literally can't compute 'cause and effect' or 'action and consequence' because they haven't developed the correct reasoning skills.

JMO MOO

 

[ShadowPuppet]

Someone’s probably already mentioned this, but the buggy they buy (then abandon) is not safe for a baby under about 6 months. For a newborn it must lay flat as baby can Not hold up it’s head or body if put in seated position. It will have warnings on the box / tags.

Did they do anything right for baby?

Yes, I think it was mentioned a while ago. It also has no proper footmuff, which you’d expect for a baby or toddler in Winter. It was better than a bag though. I still never understood why not buy a carrier - baby gets access to feed, body heat etc.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Yes, I think it was mentioned a while ago. It also has no proper footmuff, which you’d expect for a baby or toddler in Winter. It was better than a bag though. I still never understood why not buy a carrier - baby gets access to feed, body heat etc.

On some level, they resented the baby and fact it made them have to run run run & hide. <modsnip>

 

[Sherlockhames]

Argos:
The jury are now being shown an identical tent to the one bought by Marten and Gordon in Argos while they were on the run.
Jurors are now also being shown identical sleeping bags to the ones used by Marten and Gordon.

One is dark blue with white stars while another is turquoise with unicorns and rainbows on.
There are 2 sleeping bags on Argos's website which are navy blue with white stars. One is only 200gsm and a 2 season bag, the other is 250gsm and a 3 season bag. Both are completely inadequate for winter camping. They would need a 4-5 season bag in Jan / Feb. Nothing you could buy in Argos would be adequate.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9645435?clickSR=slp:term:sleeping%20bags:23:34:1

Can't find a unicorns & rainbows bag apart from this:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3110320?clickSR=slp:term:sleeping%20bags:10:34:1

It may be something that has since been discontinued... or it could be this - who knows given their bizarre choices!

I think this was the rainbow and unicorns one -

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1938690?clickSR=slp:term:aleeping%20bag:17:900:1

Their purchases just seem so incredibly irresponsible. These are barely suitable for a sleepover in an adequately heated house let alone for sleeping in a tent outdoors in a very cold winter (which I remember it was last year). I don’t understand how she didn’t buy eg a baby carrier or other properly suitable baby items (eg CM says in her interviews Victoria had a warm outfit etc - but we haven’t seen any evidence of this and it doesn’t appear on any inventory of items the police recovered).

I have been trying to keep an open mind about this case - in terms of them maybe being driven to ground by their sense of being “persecuted” by SS but actually being decent, if unconventional. But the more I see/hear about their behaviour the more I just marvel at how they can be such completely unsuitable, irresponsible parents. MOO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes, I think it was mentioned a while ago. It also has no proper footmuff, which you’d expect for a baby or toddler in Winter. It was better than a bag though. I still never understood why not buy a carrier - baby gets access to feed, body heat etc.

My biggest fear for that buggy was that it seemingly had no mattress / padding or insulation for the underside of the child and the weather was near freezing. So, putting a blanket on top of the baby wouldn't have stopped the cold coming in beneath her.

JMO MOO

 

[wowiezowie]

The whole "kids were taken away from us because I fell out of a window" angle is definitely worth more scrutinizing. Is she saying she had injuries akin to a DV victim but played them off as a result of her falling out of a window? Previous neighbours have stated they heard heated arguments between the two of them and MG has a confirmed history of an extremely violent crime against women.

Falling out of a window is no grounds to have 4 children in a row taken into care.

 

[ShadowPuppet]

The whole "kids were taken away from us because I fell out of a window" angle is definitely worth more scrutinizing. Is she saying she had injuries akin to a DV victim but played them off as a result of her falling out of a window? Previous neighbours have stated they heard heated arguments between the two of them and MG has a confirmed history of an extremely violent crime against women.

Falling out of a window is no grounds to have 4 children in a row taken into care.

It’s definitely worth looking into more. There could be so much behind that statement that reveals aspects of her day to day life.

It’s absolutely not grounds for removal on its own, but the evidence in the timeline suggests there were many more issues CM could have explained if she’d felt able/wanted. For example, the feedback she got during the foster care placement with the first baby. It sounds very much as though they had the feedback and the suggestions, but were either unable or unwilling to make the changes. I think she knows why the babies were removed, but will never willingly discuss that.

It’s also interesting that MG refers to CM being ‘in post traumatic stress’ (from Victoria’s death, I think, but the live updates can make clarity more awkward). Perhaps he plucked a condition related to trauma out of the air, or perhaps there’s a reason he chose that one.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

The whole "kids were taken away from us because I fell out of a window" angle is definitely worth more scrutinizing. Is she saying she had injuries akin to a DV victim but played them off as a result of her falling out of a window? Previous neighbours have stated they heard heated arguments between the two of them and MG has a confirmed history of an extremely violent crime against women.

Falling out of a window is no grounds to have 4 children in a row taken into care.

The possibilities:
CM jumped out of the window
MG pushed her out of the window
CM sitting on wide open window sill - smoking, drinking, reading sonnets or whatever and falls out (this open window not safe for children)

CM is washing the windows and falls out but she would have mentioned that,
maybe she tripped on one of the bottles of urine and fell out.
Faulty window, MG would have been all over compensation for that.

There isn’t an explanation that is safe for kids. The fall got an investigation from SS, they saw the insides of their home and it wasn’t safe.

 

[Kye Zeeb]

Yes, I think it was mentioned a while ago. It also has no proper footmuff, which you’d expect for a baby or toddler in Winter. It was better than a bag though. I still never understood why not buy a carrier - baby gets access to feed, body heat etc.

I just checked, Argos have a wide range of baby carriers and slings available, any of which could have been bought as well as/instead of a pushchair.

 

[ShadowPuppet]

@wowiezowie Just listened to some the The Trial podcast and, in her interview, it seems she had she had no bruising or signs of DV and that’s why she doesn’t understand the window fall causing removal (except we are aware its highly unlikely to have just been the fall, as none of the evidence so far suggests that).

 

[ShadowPuppet]

I just checked, Argos have a wide range of baby carriers and slings available, any of which could have been bought as well as/instead of a pushchair.

Yes, it’s the carrier I always find so weird, but (in the idea of fairness) they were under pressure and not thinking straight. However, so many items were available to them. Argos also have baby cot and crib mattresses, travel cots, they had full all-in-one baby coats in January and even travel systems (bundle of pram and car seat that mean you can connect the car seat and push it).

 

[Scorpiette]

I just checked, Argos have a wide range of baby carriers and slings available, any of which could have been bought as well as/instead of a pushchair.

I'm just wondering if they bought the pushchair and other clothes etc in charity shops? Cash in hand, so no using bank cards etc. Cheap if they were low on money. But choice limited so they just bought what was available. Some don't have cameras in there? Maybe they thought it was safer detectionwise?

 

[dotr]

Sometimes victims of DV are so accustomed to poor treatment, that they fail to recognize it, also, maybe CM knows a thing or two about using concealer? speculation, imo.
View attachment 484743

The whole "kids were taken away from us because I fell out of a window" angle is definitely worth more scrutinizing. Is she saying she had injuries akin to a DV victim but played them off as a result of her falling out of a window? Previous neighbours have stated they heard heated arguments between the two of them and MG has a confirmed history of an extremely violent crime against women.

Falling out of a window is no grounds to have 4 children in a row taken into care.

'Social services took Constance Marten's other children away'

Constance Marten , 36, told detectives she believed social services had intervened after a family court blamed her co-defendant Mark Gordon, 49, for the 'accident'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes, it’s the carrier I always find so weird, but (in the idea of fairness) they were under pressure and not thinking straight. However, so many items were available to them. Argos also have baby cot and crib mattresses, travel cots, they had full all-in-one baby coats in January and even travel systems (bundle of pram and car seat that mean you can connect the car seat and push it).

Not all products are available in store when purchasing from Argos nowadays, often larger or less high volume items aren't available for immediate collection and require a pre-order.

Not that I'm attempting to justify this madness!

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Yes, it’s the carrier I always find so weird, but (in the idea of fairness) they were under pressure and not thinking straight. However, so many items were available to them. Argos also have baby cot and crib mattresses, travel cots, they had full all-in-one baby coats in January and even travel systems (bundle of pram and car seat that mean you can connect the car seat and push it).

I don't understand why they didn't buy a sling either, it would have made the most sense because she was already concealing Victoria under her coat, if she had her in a sling her hands would have been free and they would have looked less conspicuous walking around.
It just seems it would have been easier all round but I don't get the sense that there is an ounce of common sense or critical thinking between them.

 

[Nikynoo]

I don't understand why they didn't buy a sling either, it would have made the most sense because she was already concealing Victoria under her coat, if she had her in a sling her hands would have been free and they would have looked less conspicuous walking around.
It just seems it would have been easier all round but I don't get the sense that there is an ounce of common sense or critical thinking between them.

Perhaps they didn’t have any slings in stock at that particular store. I’ve just looked on the Argos website with a location of ‘London’ and most are order today, collect tomorrow. Perhaps they had to make do with available stock?