UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Alyce]

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[Alyce]

12:27PM

Marten: ‘I love my kids more than anything in the world’​

Miss Marten told the court when her first child had been born she had been receiving around £50 a week from a family trust.
But she said she had written a “stern email” to the trustees, saying they had a “duty of care”.
She said after that, the payments had been increased to around £1,700 a month and later to £2,000.
But she went on: “I have three brothers who have all had houses bought for them. They get a lot more. I am treated very differently.”
The court heard that all four of her children had been taken into care.
Mr FitzGibbon asked her if she had harmed any of her children.
She replied: “Absolutely not, that’s the sad thing, Mark and I love my kids more than anything in the world. There is literally nothing I wouldn’t do for my children.”



Constance Marten tells jury 'I did nothing but show love' to my baby - live updates

 

[DavidAT]

I have often wondered that - if she felt some anger at being passed over, because she was female. Particularly ironic when the money/estate actually came from a female ancestor in the first place.

She is eldest of 4 - has three brothers.

"I have three brothers who have all had houses bought for them. They get a lot more. I am treated very differently."

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[rockthecasbah]

12:15PM

Marten says she ‘bet with the devil’ by asking for social services’ help​

The court was told that prior to her giving birth, Constance Marten had been living in a tent.
But asked by her defence counsel Francis FitzGibbon KC if she had intended to live in the tent after the birth, she replied: “Absolutely not.”
She said she had asked social services for help but said she regretted doing so.
“I feel like I made a bet with the devil because I asked for social services help and I think that was the worst decision because from my perspective, having gone through social services I do not believe they are there to support parents or children,” she said.

JMO but there seems to be a rather a lot of Poor Little Rich Girl going on here. CM says that she asked SS for help around the time of her first child's birth and had no intention of living in a tent afterwards. This is when she hoped (under a false name) they would provide her with accommodation. Presumably this is because she claims her family cut her off financially overnight. I get the feeling (JMO) that it's all SS fault for not giving her a home or her family's fault for cutting of her money. No talk of taking any responsibility for herself or working things out like everybody else has to in the real world!

I don't believe her account for a moment. If true, what did she think would happen?

"So we've seen you're lying and you're a major risk to your child. Here's the keys to a house, see you later"

 

[InstantCoffee]

To be fair, we do not know who it was in her family, she was estranged from, she suggest's 'wider family' and also discusses that she has disclosed to the court what that was (or did I read that incorrectly). If it was around 2012, I would hazard a guess that it was the transfer of the estate to her brother and its subsequent sale of the house (both occurred 2011-2013), or possibly the grandmothers will issue, or both.

Note, that CM is the eldest of the three children and so perhaps she thought the estate should pass to her?

Marten said: "I was trying to flee my family. I had spoken out about a childhood traumatic event against one of my family members and also the sale of my grandmother’s estate.

This quote in the Argos suggests there was also something in childhood we are not aware of.

 

[rockthecasbah]

12:27PM

Marten: ‘I love my kids more than anything in the world’​

Miss Marten told the court when her first child had been born she had been receiving around £50 a week from a family trust.
But she said she had written a “stern email” to the trustees, saying they had a “duty of care”.
She said after that, the payments had been increased to around £1,700 a month and later to £2,000.
But she went on: “I have three brothers who have all had houses bought for them. They get a lot more. I am treated very differently.”
The court heard that all four of her children had been taken into care.
Mr FitzGibbon asked her if she had harmed any of her children.
She replied: “Absolutely not, that’s the sad thing, Mark and I love my kids more than anything in the world. There is literally nothing I wouldn’t do for my children.”



Constance Marten tells jury 'I did nothing but show love' to my baby - live updates

Wow, I'm sure a lot of us would like to send a "stern email" to our employers and increase our income tenfold. Poor Little Rich Girl indeed.

 

[DavidAT]

I don't believe her account for a moment. If true, what did she think would happen?

"So we've seen you're lying and you're a major risk to your child. Here's the keys to a house, see you later"

The judge should ask her the names. Also it would be good if they could give evidence whether it corroborates CM's or contradicts it. (This may yet happen.)

 

[Alyce]

12:35pm

Marten 'confident' about giving birth outside of hospital​

Mr Fitzgibbon asked: "How confident were you about giving birth outside hospital?"
"I was confident," Marten said.
"I felt if there were any issues I would have gone to hospital."
Marten said there were no issues during the pregnancy or birth

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[DavidAT]

Marten said: "I was trying to flee my family. I had spoken out about a childhood traumatic event against one of my family members and also the sale of my grandmother’s estate.

This quote in the Argos suggests there was also something in childhood we are not aware of.

That's very interesting.

The Telegraph reports:

"She replied: “I was trying to flee my family, I have spoken about a traumatic event involving one of my family members.”

She told the jury that there had been a dispute about her grandmother’s will and around that time she discovered she was being “trailed by private detectives”."

The Argus reports:

"I was trying to flee my family. I had spoken out about a childhood traumatic event against one of my family members and also the sale of my grandmother’s estate." (BBM)

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Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Marten, wearing a white blouse and black trousers, became emotional midway through swearing her oath in the witness box, and asked for five minutes to go to the toilet.

After returning to court, and eight minutes into her evidence, she asked for another break, saying she “gets very nervous”.
But Judge Mark Lucraft KC, the Recorder of London, encouraged her to continue, with the promise of regular breaks.

The trial has heard evidence of Marten and Gordon’s travels around the country as they tried to evade authorities.

Marten said they hatched a plan to leave the country and take Victoria to a new life abroad.
“We wanted Victoria with me for the first six months of her life”, she said. “I don’t think it’s fair for any child to be removed from their parents.”
She said the plan was to “potentially give her to a carer, to take care of her without the local authority knowing”, and for that person to bring Victoria to their new life outside the UK.

Asked about the purpose of their travels in December 2022 and January last year, Marten said: “We moved jurisdictions between one and three days, so no local authority could have jurisdiction over an unborn baby and so that my family couldn’t coincide with social services or the police.”

Constance Marten denies causing baby's death but 'feels guilty', trial hears

Constance Marten described the moment she woke up to find her baby daughter had died, and told the Old Bailey: “I don’t think it’s ever something I will move on from”

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

“I stopped speaking to one of my family members about two years before I met Mr Gordon”, she said. “When I met him, I made a definite decision that was it for me. I didn’t want anything to do with them.”

Marten said she met Gordon when she was working in a shop and was asked by a colleague to “watch” him over suspect behaviour, but they ended up going for coffee.


She said they went travelling to Peru, where they unofficially got married in 2016.
“Like every relationship, we have ups and downs but we have been together for nine years,” she said. “There is a lot of goodness there, as well as, you know,” she added, before her voice trailed off.

Constance Marten denies causing baby's death but 'feels guilty', trial hears

Constance Marten described the moment she woke up to find her baby daughter had died, and told the Old Bailey: “I don’t think it’s ever something I will move on from”

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

12:42pm

'I was excited about seeing my baby'​

Marten broke into nervous laughter as she told the court about her pregnancy.
She said: "I was more excited about seeing my baby. Of course, any time going into labour there is a bit of fear. It is not a nice process."

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Nikynoo]

I don't believe her account for a moment. If true, what did she think would happen?

"So we've seen you're lying and you're a major risk to your child. Here's the keys to a house, see you later"

That was not the case with the first child though was it? They did receive help from SS and were discharged from that assistance. IIRC, it was her father making an application to the court that involved SS again.

 

[InstantCoffee]

There is so much 'Devil in the Detail' here and all 3 sources seem to be reporting slightly different things!

 

[Nikynoo]

Wow, I'm sure a lot of us would like to send a "stern email" to our employers and increase our income tenfold. Poor Little Rich Girl indeed.

Reading between the lines of what has been reported, I think she was pointing out that she was not being treated fairly by the trust as compared to her brothers. And it seems that she did have some standing because the payments increased substantially. I wonder who the trustees are and whether there have been any change in those trustees in the last 10 years.

 

[Alyce]

12:48PM

Not fair that any child should be split from parents, says Marten​

Resuming evidence after a short break, Miss Marten said that even though her other four children had been taken into care or adopted she still wanted to have a family with Mark Gordon.
She said initially the plan had been to go abroad, but following a legal dispute with a member of her family, Mr Gordon’s passport was not available so they were unable to travel.
Asked what their plan was, Miss Marten said: “We were in two minds. I wanted Victoria with me for the first six months of her life so that I could give her the love that she needs because I do not think it is fair that any child be apart from their parents.”
She explained that their plan was to then find a carer who could look after the child before bringing her abroad to meet them.

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[DavidAT]

Marten, wearing a white blouse and black trousers, became emotional midway through swearing her oath in the witness box, and asked for five minutes to go to the toilet.

After returning to court, and eight minutes into her evidence, she asked for another break, saying she “gets very nervous”.
But Judge Mark Lucraft KC, the Recorder of London, encouraged her to continue, with the promise of regular breaks.

The trial has heard evidence of Marten and Gordon’s travels around the country as they tried to evade authorities.

Marten said they hatched a plan to leave the country and take Victoria to a new life abroad.
“We wanted Victoria with me for the first six months of her life”, she said. “I don’t think it’s fair for any child to be removed from their parents.”
She said the plan was to “potentially give her to a carer, to take care of her without the local authority knowing”, and for that person to bring Victoria to their new life outside the UK.

Asked about the purpose of their travels in December 2022 and January last year, Marten said: “We moved jurisdictions between one and three days, so no local authority could have jurisdiction over an unborn baby and so that my family couldn’t coincide with social services or the police.”

Constance Marten denies causing baby's death but 'feels guilty', trial hears

Constance Marten described the moment she woke up to find her baby daughter had died, and told the Old Bailey: “I don’t think it’s ever something I will move on from”

www.standard.co.uk

Why not leave the country a few months before the birth?
I'm guessing they suspected the SS had put out a port alert.
"Potentially" suggests it wasn't a hard and fast plan.
It's not so difficult to smuggle a person out of Britain on a ferry.

 

[Henrymoggington]

From the Telegraph live feed…‘ said initially the plan had been to go abroad, but following a legal dispute with a member of her family, Mr Gordon’s passport was not available so they were unable to travel.’
I struggle to see how a legal dispute with her family would prevent MG’s passport being available!

 

[Alyce]

 

[Alyce]

From the Telegraph live feed…‘ said initially the plan had been to go abroad, but following a legal dispute with a member of her family, Mr Gordon’s passport was not available so they were unable to travel.’
I struggle to see how a legal dispute with her family would prevent MG’s passport being available!

Me too. That is confusing