UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Maltesepuppy]

From The Argus blog

Marten in tears in the dock​

Marten began to cry in the dock when asked if she had ever done anything to harm her four previous children.


"Absolutely not, and that is the sad thing.


"I love our kids more than anything else and I am pretty angry that they are having to go through this."


Mr Fitzgibbon said: "At the start of this trial it was said that you put your own interests above your children's?"


Marten said: "No. there is literally nothing I wouldn’t do for my children."

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

BBM - again, it's never her fault

Marten said: "No. there is literally nothing I wouldn’t do for my children."


Aside from getting a job and putting a roof over your first born instead of living in a tent; turning up to the contact sessions with your kids whom at one point you did not see for 4 months; not abandoning your fourth born in hospital as it was not necessary; taking a covid test so you could be reunited with said fourth born and finally, providing the minimum care for Victoria.

And this is only from the crumbs of information we are being fed. The only one she would do anything for is her equally reprehensible partner.

Most parents would walk on hot coals for their kids. This is why most parents keep their children with them.
It's not SS being "draconian or judgmental" it's putting your needs above those of your children that get them "taken".

 

[Alyce]

Moving around so she would not be taken, but she was only going to keep for 6 months and then give her to a "carer"?

So they never actually wanted her or the idyllic family life she makes out she was chasing, she just wanted to play dress up for a while and then get rid of the responsibility on her terms?

Running around the country putting her vulnerable newborn at risk, and ultimately causing her death to spite social services? Her family?

How can she think she is helping the jurors impression of her? She is nuts!

Those FB photos of her with the children have always made me think this - the love sprogs

 

[rockthecasbah]

Dbm

 

[rockthecasbah]

Moving around so she would not be taken, but she was only going to keep for 6 months and then give her to a "carer"?

So they never actually wanted her or the idyllic family life she makes out she was chasing, she just wanted to play dress up for a while and then get rid of the responsibility on her terms?

Only interested in child as a newborn accessory and not the hard work of raising them.

 

[Alyce]

1:48PM

‘Questionable’ car breakdown days after baby’s birth​

The jury heard details of how the couple’s Suzuki car had broken down on the December 28.
Miss Marten said the car had broken down in “questionable circumstances”.

The breakdown driver who had picked the couple up had previously told the court that he had not seen or heard a baby.

But Miss Marten insisted Victoria had been under her coat throughout the journey.

They later checked into a hotel and Mr FitzGibbon asked her how she had been feeling at the time.
She said: “I was in a state of high anxiety. I was fearful that someone was going to bash down the door and take her away.”

The case has now broken for lunch

Access Restricted

 

[Alyce]

2:12pm

Jury re-enters court​

The jury has re-entered court and the trial will resume shortly.

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Skigh]

I see that, but why should she? By her account, she is entitled to Trust funds on the same basis as her siblings.

Also, the prosecution is claiming that she had access to the Trust Fund, they have not said she should have got a job. CMs point is that yes, she did have some access, but not on the same basis as her siblings.

I do think the family dispute has brought on a certain amount of paranoia. Hopefully, we will find out more.

From what we have read so far about Constance 's life ,I would probably have put as many restrictions on her trust as I could in order to preserve her inheritance and make sure it was not depleted in various ways which ultimately would not have been to her benefit.

I also think even with free access to her money,her children would not have been properly cared for and could still have suffered neglect both emotionally and physically. The only saving grace could have been if the trust fund could have supported full time nannies,cleaners and possibly a housekeeper.

 

[Nikynoo]

From what we have read so far about Constance 's life ,I would probably have put as many restrictions on her trust as I could in order to preserve her inheritance and make sure it was not depleted in various ways which ultimately would not have been to her benefit.

I also think even with free access to her money,her children would not have been properly cared for and could still have suffered neglect both emotionally and physically. The only saving grace could have been if the trust fund could have supported full time nannies,cleaners and possibly a housekeeper.

Oh, I agree. Doesn't matter what kind of environment a child is in, exposure to DV is harmful.

 

[Alyce]

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

​

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Jury shown image of couple at Bolton bus station​

The jury has been shown an image of Marten and Gordon at Bolton bus station.
Marten confirmed that this was her and the burgundy coat was the one shown to the jury during the trial.

She told the court that baby Victoria was underneath her coat in a blanket she had made into a sling. It was the usual way I carried her.

Mr Fitzgibbon asked: "Did she appear to be undergoing any difficulty in being carried that way?"

"No," Marten said. "She liked being carried that way, it soothed her. She liked being close to us."

 

[Skigh]

Oh, I agree. Doesn't matter what kind of environment a child is in, exposure to DV is harmful.

Not just the DV issue,I think both are too selfish and needy themselves to be able to give the care and attention children require to thrive.

 

[Alyce]

2:32pm

Couple's journey through the country​

Marten is being asked about the journey she made across the country with Gordon and baby Victoria.
The jury is being reminded of their journey from Bolton, to Liverpool, to Harwich and Colchester from January 5 to January 7.
In East Ham the couple are spotted by a woman who knew them from media coverage.

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[rockthecasbah]

I also think even with free access to her money,her children would not have been properly cared for and could still have suffered neglect both emotionally and physically.

Totally agree. She only cares about him and herself.

 

[Alyce]

2:41PM

‘We were trying to get to a seaport as quickly as possible’​

Resuming after the lunch break, Mr FitzGibbon continued taking Miss Marten through her movements in the days following Victoria’s birth.
The court heard that after their car caught fire on January 5, the couple got a lift to Bolton and then a taxi to Liverpool.
Asked why they had chosen Liverpool, Miss Marten replied: “I think we were trying to get to a seaport as quickly as possible.”
But after arriving in Liverpool they then took another taxi to Harwich in Essex.
Miss Marten explained: “We wanted to be by a seaport. I wanted to get abroad as quickly as possible with Victoria. Harwich was the place that I had in my mind.”
But while they were in Harwich they discovered they were the subject of a media appeal when a member of the public approached them and asked them if they were the people he had seen on the television.
Miss Marten said they then decided to try to get a flat in London for a while in order to “lie low for a while”.



Constance Marten tells jury 'I did nothing but show love' to my baby - live updates

 

[Nikynoo]

Not just the DV issue,I think both are too selfish and needy themselves to be able to give the care and attention children require to thrive.

BBM - this has not been part of evidence in court.

IIRC, contact sessions were glowing and (according to one podcast) the family court judge left the childrens record open so that they could see 'what could have been'.

IMO there has been no evidence reported that the children were neglected in the physical sense. The children were permanently removed because of a failure by Marten and Gordon to engage with SS and because of DV concerns.

 

[Megnut]

It's like two 14 year olds with grandiose dreams, no plan and a baby that should've been left in the care of the nearest adult.

Jmo

 

[OceanElix]

BBM - this has not been part of evidence in court.

IIRC, contact sessions were glowing and (according to one podcast) the family court judge left the childrens record open so that they could see 'what could have been'.

IMO there has been no evidence reported that the children were neglected in the physical sense. The children were permanently removed because of a failure by Marten and Gordon to engage with SS and because of DV concerns.

BBM

Yes, the contact sessions they bothered to attend.....
however, they couldn't even commit to regular attendance, which SS reported caused great upset to at least one of the children.

Previously discussed in thread

 

[rockthecasbah]

BBM

Yes, the contact sessions they bothered to attend.....
however, they couldn't even commit to regular attendance, which SS reported caused great upset to at least one of the children.

Previously discussed in thread

It's much easier to present yourself as a good parent for a short session each week than be one all the time.

 

[Alyce]

3:06pm

Fugitive couple's options were running out​

Marten told the court she and Gordon had planned to get a flat in east London to live with baby Victoria. She said she thought it would be easier to hide there.
"We found the opposite was true," Marten told the court.
"People were looking at us.
"We wanted to get a flat but the trouble was if police came there would be nowhere to go. Our options were diminishing."

Recap after Constance Marten gives evidence in trial

Updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

2:59PM

Constance Marten denies carrying baby in carrier bag​

Mr FitzGibbon asked Miss Marten how she had been transporting her daughter as they moved around the country.
He said: “Was there a time before Victoria died that she was being carried in a carrier bag?”
She replied: “No.”
The prosecution had previously claimed that the baby spent much of her short life being carried around in a Lidl Bag for Life.
Miss Marten also insisted that throughout their movements around the country her daughter remained in good health and was feeding normally.
Asked about her own health and state of mind, she said: “I had not slept very much in hotels and I was in a heightened state of panic so I was probably quite tired but I was happy to be with one of my children.”

Access Restricted

 

[Nikynoo]

BBM

Yes, the contact sessions they bothered to attend.....
however, they couldn't even commit to regular attendance, which SS reported caused great upset to at least one of the children.

Previously discussed in thread

I am aware, BUT, that was not the reason the children were permanently removed.