UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Alyce]

4:00PM

Marten says living in tent did not pose ‘any danger’ to baby​

Miss Marten was next asked about the couple’s arrival in Newhaven in East Sussex.
Explaining why the couple had chosen that area, she said: “We wanted to be near a port so we had two plans in our mind. The first was to get a cottage that we could pay for with cash with no electrical tracing and also to be near a port so that someone could smuggle us abroad. Our plan was only to be in the tent for a day or two maximum.”
She denied that it was ever uncomfortably cold or wet inside the tent.
Asked by Mr FitzGibbon if she thought a tent was an appropriate place for a baby, she replied: “Obviously it would be preferable to be in a house, that is just common sense, but at no point did I think she was in any danger.
“She was our pride and joy, the whole reason for us being in the tent was for Victoria, she was always well cared for.”



Constance Marten tells court family set private detectives on her - live updates

 

[InstantCoffee]

Explaining why the couple had chosen that area, she said: “We wanted to be near a port so we had two plans in our mind. The first was to get a cottage that we could pay for with cash with no electrical tracing and also to be near a port so that someone could smuggle us abroad. Our plan was only to be in the tent for a day or two maximum.”

Okay - so complete fantasist thinking! Who would smuggle two people and a new born baby who are wanted by Police and SS!

 

[Alyce]

4.00 pm

We are now covering the death of baby Victoria, which Marten described as "harrowing".


She said: "When I woke up she wasn't alive.
"We tried to resuscitate her but she was alive, we just didn't accept that she was not alive.
"You don't want to accept when someone has passed away. It's harrowing, it's too much to take in."



( has to be a typo there, surely should say ..... but she was not alive )




4:08pm


When asked what they did with the body, Marten added: "I held on to her for a few hours and then I wrapped her in my black headscarf.
"I said some parting words to her and placed her in the bag for life."






Constance Marten 'wanted to smuggle baby abroad' court hears

 

[OceanElix]

I am aware, BUT, that was not the reason the children were permanently removed.

No, I wasn't suggesting it was. I was highlighting that they weren't consistent though, they were only able to provide good care, within a monitored setting and for a limited time sadly.

 

[bobbymkii]

Unlucky for them, most of the people smuggling operations in the UK are designed to smuggle people INTO the United Kingdom, not out!

 

[Cardgame]

Yes, not sure why they didn't try to go to NI once they reached Liverpool, instead of doing a very quick about turn down to Harwich, seems odd.

Everything still seems odd. JMO.

I wonder if the disparity in reporting detail is because she is hard to follow.

Chaff much?

"I think it was 2016"

"Around 2016"

It's the year you went to Peru and got married, not a pub quiz! Who can't remember what YEAR they got married?!

 

[Alyce]

Everything still seems odd. JMO.

I wonder if the disparity in reporting detail is because she is hard to follow.

Chaff much?

"I think it was 2016"

"Around 2016"

It's the year you went to Peru and got married, not a pub quiz! Who can't remember what YEAR they got married?!

Yep, along with, when did Victoria die - January 8, no it was the 9th, no it was the 11th

 

[Nikynoo]

So CM has said that they didn't try and travel abroad earlier during her pregnancy as MG didn't have access to his passport (for some strange reason involving someone from CMs family). But then she says that after the car fire they were trying to get to a seaport as quickly as possible. How would that work if he had no passport? How would that course of action be any more accessible to them at this point than before?

They were hoping for 'someone' to smuggle them.

 

[Nikynoo]

"The jury heard details of how the couple’s Suzuki car had broken down on Dec 28.

Miss Marten said the car had broken down in “questionable circumstances”."

What does that, or might it, mean? Does she think someone may have interfered with the car?

Access Restricted

At this point, who knows?

 

[DavidAT]

""Mr FitzGibbon asked Miss Marten how she had been transporting her daughter as they moved around the country.

He said: “Was there a time before Victoria died that she was being carried in a carrier bag?”

She replied: “No.”

Access Restricted

Is it possible CM had Victoria under her coat after they dumped the buggy in Flower and Dean Walk in Whitechapel? She's not holding her with either arm. Her arms swing quite jauntily. Is this consistent with having a baby in a sling?

Constance Marten trial shown CCTV footage of on-the-run couple dumping pushchair

Constance Marten, 36, and her lover Mark Gordon, 49, have been accused of causing the death of their daughter Victoria through gross negligence and are currently on trial at the Old Bailey

www.mirror.co.uk

Video: First glimpse of Constance Marten's baby before child found dead | Daily Mail Online

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's baby seen in CCTV footage for first time as they are put on trial at the Old Bailey, accused of manslaughter. Both appear to be masked, wearing multiple layers, presumably to avoid detection while on the run.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Smccat]

Yes, not sure why they didn't try to go to NI once they reached Liverpool, instead of doing a very quick about turn down to Harwich, seems odd.

Were they thinking NI is still part of the UK and decided it would not be the best plan so about turned it to get on the other coast and head to France or The Netherlands.
Sounds rather like Mark wasn't going to me.
I still do think NI was the best plan and to head over the border into Donegal or Sligo onto that west coast.
Lots of places are really welcoming to 'blow ins'.

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes, not sure why they didn't try to go to NI once they reached Liverpool, instead of doing a very quick about turn down to Harwich, seems odd.

I am wondering whether they were relying on 'help' of some kind?

 

[Nikynoo]

Explaining why the couple had chosen that area, she said: “We wanted to be near a port so we had two plans in our mind. The first was to get a cottage that we could pay for with cash with no electrical tracing and also to be near a port so that someone could smuggle us abroad. Our plan was only to be in the tent for a day or two maximum.”

Okay - so complete fantasist thinking! Who would smuggle two people and a new born baby who are wanted by Police and SS!

I believe there are 'anti ss underground' networks. I still think that is the reason for the change from Portsmouth to New Haven.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Explaining why the couple had chosen that area, she said: “We wanted to be near a port so we had two plans in our mind. The first was to get a cottage that we could pay for with cash with no electrical tracing and also to be near a port so that someone could smuggle us abroad. Our plan was only to be in the tent for a day or two maximum.”

Okay - so complete fantasist thinking! Who would smuggle two people and a new born baby who are wanted by Police and SS!

In the same vein, who would smuggle over 30 people on a dinghy across the English channel?
Traffickers that only care about money.

 

[Alyce]

When asked what they did with the body, Marten added: "I held on to her for a few hours and then I wrapped her in my black headscarf.
"I said some parting words to her and placed her in the bag for life.



Or- to be more precise -I took all her clothes off her, removing her dignity in death - and left her in a soiled nappy before dumping her in a shopping bag.

 

[elliefant]

When asked what they did with the body, Marten added: "I held on to her for a few hours and then I wrapped her in my black headscarf.
"I said some parting words to her and placed her in the bag for life.



Or- to be more precise -I took all her clothes off her, removing her dignity in death - and left her in a soiled nappy before dumping her in a shopping bag.

And covered her in rubbish and soil in the bag

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Everything still seems odd. JMO.

I wonder if the disparity in reporting detail is because she is hard to follow.

Chaff much?

"I think it was 2016"

"Around 2016"

It's the year you went to Peru and got married, not a pub quiz! Who can't remember what YEAR they got married?!

RBBM
Most husbands

 

[DavidAT]

4:00PM

Marten says living in tent did not pose ‘any danger’ to baby​

Miss Marten was next asked about the couple’s arrival in Newhaven in East Sussex.
Explaining why the couple had chosen that area, she said: “We wanted to be near a port so we had two plans in our mind. The first was to get a cottage that we could pay for with cash with no electrical tracing and also to be near a port so that someone could smuggle us abroad. Our plan was only to be in the tent for a day or two maximum.”
She denied that it was ever uncomfortably cold or wet inside the tent.
Asked by Mr FitzGibbon if she thought a tent was an appropriate place for a baby, she replied: “Obviously it would be preferable to be in a house, that is just common sense, but at no point did I think she was in any danger.
“She was our pride and joy, the whole reason for us being in the tent was for Victoria, she was always well cared for.”



Constance Marten tells court family set private detectives on her - live updates

Just to underline this bit:

"no electrical tracing".

 

[jackal67]

Why not leave the country a few months before the birth?
I'm guessing they suspected the SS had put out a port alert.
"Potentially" suggests it wasn't a hard and fast plan.
It's not so difficult to smuggle a person out of Britain on a ferry.

I dont think SS knew she was pregnant again until the car fire. They could have left the country when she first became pregnant,but of course MG had to report weekly to a Police station so would have been difficult ,

 

[Skigh]

No electric tracing ...It is more than likely this was an auto correct error and was supposed to read electronic. They would pay cash rather than by card.