UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Smccat]

dbm ^ Skigh provided list above!

 

[Sherlockhames]

Most of it is not relevant to the case IMO.

That’s what I don’t think we will hear any further evidence to this effect. I can see it’s not relevant to this case, but I still think it might be relevant to her being trustworthy or slightly delusional.

 

[Kye Zeeb]

Websleuths Lingo

Thank you KaylynnCouture & ApotheKaren for updating list! :) AFAIC = As Far As I'm Concerned AFAIK = And For All I Know /As far as I know AFK = Away From Keyboard AFKBPOFPOPL = Association For Keeping Basement Party On Front Page Of Parking Lot AKA = Also Known As AI = Artificial Intelligence...

www.websleuths.com

Perhaps an admin could add SS to that list (Social Services) as the abbreviation caused some confusion earlier in this thread.

 

[Kye Zeeb]

That’s what I don’t think we will hear any further evidence to this effect. I can see it’s not relevant to this case, but I still think it might be relevant to her being trustworthy or slightly delusional.

So far, a lot of the Defence evidence has been, on the whole, woolly and unsubstantiated. Actually, that could also apply to the Prosecution evidence too. JMO.

 

[Skigh]

Perhaps an admin could add SS to that list (Social Services) as the abbreviation caused some confusion earlier in this thread.

It is not a Websleuth's acronym.

 

[Nikynoo]

So far, a lot of the Defence evidence has been, on the whole, woolly and unsubstantiated. Actually, that could also apply to the Prosecution evidence too. JMO.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[rightsaidfred]

They're back in court, with CM insisting they had a car seat Constance Marten planned to pay for baby to be smuggled abroad – latest

CM has helpfully clarified that she put the baby's interests over the cat's, even though she'd had the cat for 3 years

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[ShadowPuppet]

I can’t say I’m surprised at CM responses. I also think it’s relevant to whether she’s trustworthy, but I’m definitely not experienced in law. If it’s all true and there’s evidence her family wrongly claimed these things, successfully preventing her from parenting and trying to kill them by causing car fires, would it make a difference to the ‘necessary to prevent a greater harm from occurring’ part? I know it’s highly unlikely, but would it be something that needed to be considered?

 

[Alyce]

That’s what I don’t think we will hear any further evidence to this effect. I can see it’s not relevant to this case, but I still think it might be relevant to her being trustworthy or slightly delusional.

I do find it relevant to state of mind, although I can understand Judge Lucraft having to restrict the outpourings.

 

[Alyce]

Marten is now being asked what Victoria was wearing when the car caught fire.
She refuted that the baby was wearing "just a teddy bear cotton onesie".

Marten says that Victoria was wearing a hat at the time but Joel Smith KC, prosecuting, says that she was not.

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

Ken Hudson added: 'When the lady ran past me she (the baby) was bundled up in a blanket, and once I stopped filming and turned to look I could see that she was carrying a bundle
and at the top was a baby's head - the top of the skull was protruding out slightly.

'The lady said: "She's fine". She said: "You don't need to wait, you can go, we'll be fine now.

'I put my hand on the baby's head and said "God bless, keep safe" and then we got into the van.'

Moment Constance Marten and her lover's car burns at roadside

Ken Hudson, a van driver who witnessed Marten and her partner Mark Gordon's Peugeot 206 go up in flames, told jurors at the Old Bailey he stopped to help on the M61 in Greater Manchester.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Marten said the plan was to find someone prepared to register Victoria under their own name.

She told the court earlier that she would not have been able to register her daughter’s birth without alerting the authorities and that she planned to use private medical care on Harley Street if her daughter ever needed medical attention instead of registering her with the NHS.

Challenged on how getting someone else to register the baby’s birth may have been difficult, Marten said: “I am sure these things are doable. I will do anything to save my children.”

Constance Marten planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby abroad, court told | TalkTV

On-the-run mother Constance Marten has told jurors that she and her partner planned to pay someone to smuggle their baby daughter abroad.

talk.tv

 

[Nikynoo]

They're back in court, with CM insisting they had a car seat Constance Marten planned to pay for baby to be smuggled abroad – latest

CM has helpfully clarified that she put the baby's interests over the cat's, even though she'd had the cat for 3 years

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

I believe it was 7 years they had the cat

BTW for your timeline. The cat that broke down on 28th was towed and left at Morrisons.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

It is interesting! I don't see her as naive at all, I think she knows how the world works, she just doesn't think it should apply to her. Where you see naive, I see bloody minded!.

There is a possibility she is both.
I have met several people in my life that were both.

 

[Nikynoo]

would it make a difference to the ‘necessary to prevent a greater harm from occurring’ part? I know it’s highly unlikely, but would it be something that needed to be considered?

SBM - IMO, I dont believe it is relevant, they either breached their duty of care or they did not.

 

[Alyce]

Marten is remonstrating with the court that press attention to the case is "seriously affecting witnesses"

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

Bet that's going down well with the Judge

 

[Alyce]

4.04.pm

We are now finishing proceedings for today.
We will be re-starting proceedings on Wednesday and will not be sitting tomorrow.

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Constance Marten has told jurors that her family believed she was a drug addict who was “breeding children to sell on the black market”.
Accusing them of bringing a High Court case against her in 2019 which prevented her from leaving the country,
she also claimed that they had hired private investigators to follow her.

Constance Marten calls baby’s death a ‘horrible accident’ – trial live

Marten and partner Mark Gordon deny gross negligence manslaughter of their daughter Victoria

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Under cross examination today, prosecutor Joel Smith asked Marten: "Do you remember what you were doing when you found out you were pregnant with Victoria?"

She replied: "I'm not sure what the relevance of that question is."

Marten was told by the judge to answer the question.

"I would have been on the toilet," she replied

Aristocrat's family 'accused her of selling babies on black market'

Constance Marten previously told the court that she "gave her baby the best any mother could" and did "nothing but show her love". Victoria was found dead in a Lidl bag last March

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[dotr]

They're back in court, with CM insisting they had a car seat Constance Marten planned to pay for baby to be smuggled abroad – latest

CM has helpfully clarified that she put the baby's interests over the cat's, even though she'd had the cat for 3 years

Runaway aristocrat planned to pay someone to smuggle her baby

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is set to continue.

www.theargus.co.uk

If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable, the irony is that had they put the baby in the cat carrier at the side of the road, instead of the cat, the baby might well still be alive now, imo, speculation.
From link..
''Marten says that they also had a cat with them until their car caught fire on the side of the motorway.
She said: "We had to choose between Victoria and the cat.
"We would hide her [the cat] because we would have to get her in a hotel."

 

[Skigh]

Constance Marten 'accused of bearing children to sell on black market'

The aristocrat, 36, and her 49-year-old lover Mark Gordon are accused of killing their fifth child Victoria by taking her on the run across England in January last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk