UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

[Rolypolyoly]

I don't think there is anything rational about their decision making ever since they met. You can see why there were such significant concerns

I feel like she did all the decision making and he was just along for the ride. He seems happy to just do whatever she wants.

No way my husband would put my crazy choices above our kids safety, no matter how much he loved me!

 

[ShadowPuppet]

Re Harley Street, I might be wrong but as far as I know it's just a lot of medical consultants offices, I don't think it has any type of emergency access hospital service for babies or infants?

I don’t think any private hospitals (bar maybe one?) has A&E style care as usually private patients in a life threatening emergency are transferred to nhs - though that could be an outdated view from me.

I think they’ve got a children’s medical center with Consultants. Hang on…
Harley Street Paediatric Group

Yes, from this, it includes a Consultant neonatal surgeon. Even so, these doctors are all bound by a duty of care so reporting a family to SS would still happen if they were concerned and most of not all have NHS clinics too, which is standard in the UK. Equally, the travel is still an issue. If it was bacterial meningitis (can decline to death in 24h) or something that requires immediate emergency treatment, they’d usually be directed to A&E I think and any hesitation or just the fact they hadn’t gone straight there and might have dallied about worrying about being found first would raise red flags. Equally, they’d need to disclose lack of vaccines and wouldn’t have a red book from the health visitor which would also raise concerns from the POV of the lack of medical info available to treat Victoria. I think as well the lack of calling 111 or 999 would be noted as a concern if they’d driven miles to get there and delayed care.

JMO, but maybe showing proof she did intend potential medical neglect should a situation come up as she wasn’t willing to put her baby’s need for medical care first?

 

[Maltesepuppy]

12:35pm

Marten 'begged police to be gentle' with Gordon​

Marten told the court she "begged police to be gentle" with Gordon when he was arrested in Golf Drive, Hollingdean, Brighton on February 27 last year.


All I could think when I read this was the way CM grabbed poor baby Victoria and put her in the push chair. She did not even held her head. There was no a sign of gentleness there. Guess she was saving it up for MG.

JMO, MOO

 

[Maltesepuppy]

‘I would never in my life foresee the car blowing up.'

Says the woman who just told us 14 of her other cars malfunctioned in eerily similar circumstances.

Everything about her are contradictions. She defended living in a tent as "alternative", people around the world do it, let's not be so western about this...but... she didn't want this lifestyle. Her family made her do it.
She run away with Victoria to keep her but the plan was to hand her over to a smuggler from Gumtree.
She'd do anything for her kids, but a covid test is a step too far.

JMO, MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Re Harley Street, I might be wrong but as far as I know it's just a lot of medical consultants offices, I don't think it has any type of emergency access hospital service for babies or infants?

You are correct, Harley Street there is no type of walk-in service and most consultants are “referral only” and often a long wait for appt unless it’s urgent referral.
Private consultants refer you to NHS for emergencies.
There is of course, The Portland Hospital, private maternity / woman services. Heavy security in operation at all times. No walk-in, no emergency/A&E.

If she thinks none of these professional medical services would not call SS/Police, she is wrong. They would see trouble, the moment she said didn’t have GP, or paperwork, no address, no proper buggy, fake accent etc. They have safeguarding reporting obligations.
Not to mention they take your credit/bank card details & fee at booking an appointment. So, patient telling them they will pay only cash would be first red flag.

 

[Cardgame]

IMO these things are quite randomly selected 'off the top of your head' type of responses: Gumtree, Harley Street.

I don't believe these were actual plans, because even a tiny bit of digging would inform you that you shouldn't even buy a dog off gumtree, never mind acquire a nanny. And that Harley street isn't an emergency healthcare option.

IMO CM is just saying stuff, possibly to obfuscate what their actual plan was.

A plan they still don't want anyone to know about.

Was there already a baby smuggler in place? But when they no longer had access to cash, and the high visibility manhunt started, the smuggler got cold feet and dropped out. IMO this might make sense of their mad dash round the country visiting ports even when they don't have passports.

Maybe she's still hoping to access that person/plan/escape route next time she has a baby, if she is acquitted.

 

[Nikynoo]

IMO these things are quite randomly selected 'off the top of your head' type of responses: Gumtree, Harley Street.

I don't believe these were actual plans, because even a tiny bit of digging would inform you that you shouldn't even buy a dog off gumtree, never mind acquire a nanny. And that Harley street isn't an emergency healthcare option.

IMO CM is just saying stuff, possibly to obfuscate what their actual plan was.

A plan they still don't want anyone to know about.

Was there already a baby smuggler in place? But when they no longer had access to cash, and the high visibility manhunt started, the smuggler got cold feet and dropped out. IMO this might make sense of their mad dash round the country visiting ports even when they don't have passports.

Maybe she's still hoping to access that person/plan/escape route next time she has a baby, if she is acquitted.

I really don't think they had a plan - they seem be to too chaotic. Most of what CM has said is wishful thinking/fantasy and not thought through logically.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I really don't think they had a plan - they seem be to too chaotic. Most of what CM has said is wishful thinking/fantasy and not thought through logically.

I suspect one of two things = they either had a solid plan that fell through when the car went on fire and *no way* are they going to reveal it as they wish to keep it safe and sound for the next time. Or, their plan was always pretty 'fly' and was being developed whilst on the hoof and they were depending on randoms from online support groups / forums who weren't really there and dependable in reality and everything kept collapsing.

JMO MOO

 

[rockthecasbah]

IMO these things are quite randomly selected 'off the top of your head' type of responses: Gumtree, Harley Street.

I don't believe these were actual plans, because even a tiny bit of digging would inform you that you shouldn't even buy a dog off gumtree, never mind acquire a nanny. And that Harley street isn't an emergency healthcare option.

IMO CM is just saying stuff, possibly to obfuscate what their actual plan was.

A plan they still don't want anyone to know about.

Was there already a baby smuggler in place? But when they no longer had access to cash, and the high visibility manhunt started, the smuggler got cold feet and dropped out. IMO this might make sense of their mad dash round the country visiting ports even when they don't have passports.

Maybe she's still hoping to access that person/plan/escape route next time she has a baby, if she is acquitted.

Good theory

 

[dotr]

Maybe CM has previously tried to get someone to smuggle one of the kids?
If so, and the family learned of this, it would be no surprise that they might think she was breeding babies for the black market. imo, speculation.

Constance Marten considered using Gumtree to find nanny to smuggle daughter abroad

Aristocrat claims family believed she was drug addict who was having children to ‘sell on the black market’

www.independent.co.uk

''Returning to the witness stand for the third day, Constance Marten said she could have found a carer or nanny willing to help get their newborn to Europe, naming advertising website Gumtree as a place to look.

The 36-year-old also told the court her family believed she was a drug addict who was “bearing children to sell on the black market”.

 

[jackal67]

The jury was told that an order was made which allowed for FF ( child One ) to be cared for by the couple under social services supervision. This order was discharged in 2018.

After that the couple moved away from Wales, and had three more children.
But after the birth of their second child, referred to in court as GG, social services became involved again.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial: Four children taken into care

A jury hears Constance Marten claimed she had not been to school - but was in fact from a wealthy family.

www.bbc.co.uk

Would SS really remove the children for one incidence of DV !! There must have been more to it than this surely?

 

[adot0902]

Well consider me in the camp that 100% believes she was on drugs and tried to sell her kids on the black market. That is the ONLY logical thing I've heard come out of this court case yet.
The acting is top notch to the point people are really giving her the benefit of the doubt like she thought this was her only chance at keeping her child.

 

[GreekGal]

The Trial

Listen to episodes and learn more about The Trial. The Trial goes behind the headlines of some of the biggest trials in the world.We take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims...

shows.acast.com

Episode 14 has just landed.

 

[ShadowPuppet]

Interesting tidbit in there that she claims she believes the car issue was a mechanical failure and now believe MG was right that it was a detonation.

 

[GreekGal]

Interesting tidbit in there that she claims she believes the car issue was a mechanical failure and now believe MG was right that it was a detonation.

Yes, I found that interesting and I'm wondering whether MG was the cause of much of her paranoia. Was he feeding it purposely maybe for his own agenda or was he also just as paranoid? Or perhaps they had genuine reasons to be paranoid. She stated previously that the last thing she had expected was for the car to blow up on the motorway, whilst also claiming that it was the 14th motor to do so under exactly the same circumstances!

Another interesting bit was the fact that the records of the Irish customs officers also show that she knew quite well that Liverpool was a ferry port to Ireland as she had tried to return there from Ireland previously when she was stopped. In the trial she stated that she had no idea whether Liverpool was a port at the time they were on the run.

 

[Doughy]

The Trial

Listen to episodes and learn more about The Trial. The Trial goes behind the headlines of some of the biggest trials in the world.We take you into the courtroom, bringing you the detail as the evidence unfolds, examining key moments and carrying out exclusive interviews with detectives, victims...

shows.acast.com

Episode 14 has just landed.

She's absolutely delusional.
The 'travel ban' sounds like a guardianship order was made by her family due to her capacity....

Has she used the term "targeted individual" yet because that's what she's alluding to. If this was someone I work with I would be requesting a psych evaluation for paranoid schizophrenia.

 

[Nikynoo]

I would be requesting a psych evaluation for paranoid schizophrenia.

I agree!!

 

[guiser]

I can't fathom her.
If she believes even half of what she's saying I'd guess there's some significant cognitive impairment going on. We'll likely never know if she was born like it or it's a result of illness, trauma or even brain injury.
If she doesn't believe it then she's completely deluded if she thinks the jury and judge will accept her word for it.
I do increasingly have the feeling that MG is the follower here and not the leader though.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm even wondering if MG set the car on fire??

Perhaps in a final act of thwarting them leaving the country - after all he can't actually go anywhere without there being a formally notified 'man hunt' with the intention to return him to prison to serve the rest of his sentence.

If there's really been sabotage of vehicles, how much could be down to him? Also they had fire / smoke damage issues in their rented house before being evicted did they not?

Plus it was him who suggested they all set themselves alight (if that is to be believed).

Bit of an arsonist / pyromaniac perchance?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

As for paranoid schizophrenia, 100%

My mother was dx with paranoid schizophrenia and this is all too same sh_t different decade, honestly can't make it up, the similarities are too much.