GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

That pair are in Belmarsh as is BB! Won't be anywhere near each other though.

You know I wouldn't want to do a prison wardens job. I'm far too chicken like.
It would be on my mind constantly. Oh you did that n he did this. I would drive myself insane. Fair play to those brave men and women who work inside those prisons. With the amount of hardened criminals in there. Cudos

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[Gigi-G]

I agree with you totally. Back in 2007 where everything was fresh and new and babies can't tell you what's wrong. And Ellie went limp. He said he put his fingers down her throat while he was on telephone to 999 and she took a huge gasp. As it came to light she had a cyst that had grown on her throat.
Maybe there was some SBS. But he would of played that away by trying to get her to breathe. That's why he was patting himself on the back. Cuz HE saved her. Not hurt her. Altho he did didn't he. His tracks were covered by that cyst.
THAT'S why he fought the court and Social Services.
But this time. He can't explain away her brain seeping out of the back of her skull. (The boggy mass)
Presented irreparable brain damage. And no doubt the killing factor.
I moo of course.

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[Gigi-G]

I did the search within 2013 parameters to see what might come up for JG. Let's say Ellie was urinating, not simply bed wetting, according to some of the psych commenters on that link, the key factor is stress and abuse.
If Ellie was suddenly urinating , we can guess why.
So is that why she gets hit again and again - or does he need no reason?

Roll back to 2007, he tried to feed 6 week old Ellie, changed a messy nappy and then shortly after Ellie goes limp.
( Yes I know I am massively over- reaching, as in reality that guy needs zero excuse to lash out, it appears from his text messges. )

My other post was supposed to tie in here . Grrr
However. In another answer to yr post. I really don't think he needs an excuse to lash out.
If she was urinating and getting told off (beaten) for it. Maybe it was thru fear idk.
Maybe she thought if she was bad enough. She'd go see Grandma again.
We'll never know.

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[cottonweaver]

Anyway nighty night. Let's see if he behaves himself tomorrow - or will it be JG's turn to stage some poor me histrionics? Honestly , they seem to see it as an extension of the 2007 trial, er, no , your daughter is dead after a vicious killing IMO so look at the floor and be respectful.

Like you, would hate to work in a prison, far too brutal. If I was near enough I would def go and listen and I'd like to be given a seat with direct eye contact with him. (Although If faced with him in a dark alley I would run a mile. LOL)
For her, I would be still able to summon up a fraction of pity, she is a pitiful creature despite her enabling him through, what is it, arguably nearly a decade of collusion. ( If one feels it was SBS in 2007 of course. )

 

[Gigi-G]

Anyway nighty night. Let's see if he behaves himself tomorrow - or will it be JG's turn to stage some poor me histrionics? Honestly , they seem to see it as an extension of the 2007 trial, er, no , your daughter is dead after a vicious killing IMO so look at the floor and be respectful.

Like you, would hate to work in a prison, far too brutal. If I was near enough I would def go and listen and I'd like to be given a seat with direct eye contact with him. (Although If faced with him in a dark alley I would run a mile. LOL)
For her, I would be still able to summon up a fraction of pity, she is a pitiful creature despite her enabling him through, what is it, arguably nearly a decade of collusion. ( If one feels it was SBS in 2007 of course. )

Ha! Lol yes I'd run a mile too. In the years they have been on and off as bf gf. He's groomed her. He controls her. I'm surprised he actually let's her work. Altho he's admitted he sounds plenty of time gaming on the TV.
There's no excuse to b allow yr child to be manhandled by their father or a friend. You are their guardian. The essence is in that word GUARD. to let another harm yr child and YOU let them do it. You may as well hurt them yourself. NO EXCUSES. They didn't ask to be born. You made that choice. So grow up. And step up..... words to JG.

Okay night night. Sleep well. Tomorrow's another day. ☆Namastè

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[Supernovae]

Ha! Lol yes I'd run a mile too. In the years they have been on and off as bf gf. He's groomed her. He controls her. I'm surprised he actually let's her work. Altho he's admitted he sounds plenty of time gaming on the TV.
There's no excuse to b allow yr child to be manhandled by their father or a friend. You are their guardian. The essence is in that word GUARD. to let another harm yr child and YOU let them do it. You may as well hurt them yourself. NO EXCUSES. They didn't ask to be born. You made that choice. So grow up. And step up..... words to JG.

Okay night night. Sleep well. Tomorrow's another day. ☆Namastè

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I think she has definite narcissistic tendencies as well. It's all about the fantasy she's created of "perfect" family life with him, and everything else is secondary to that, including her children. See in particular the notes. I suspect you may be right when you said earlier that the pregnancies may have been a way to manoeuvre him into the role she wanted him in.

 

[Gigi-G]

I think she has definite narcissistic tendencies as well. It's all about the fantasy she's created of "perfect" family life with him, and everything else is secondary to that, including her children. See in particular the notes. I suspect you may be right when you said earlier that the pregnancies may have been a way to manoeuvre him into the role she wanted him in.

I've also noticed that a lot of the Media have them labelled as 'man and wife'
As far as I'm aware they were just 'a couple' at the most part 'engaged'
Besides it's only really in celebrity circles the 'wife' still uses her maiden name or show business name.
And yes I agree with you there. She's after the 'perfect' family unit. But aren't 99.9% of the population.
I'm afraid as long as she was with him. There'd be nothing perfect. He was genetically 'mis-wired'
HE answers to no one but himself. And I'm afraid a partnership rolls on 2 like minded loving individuals.
He is a bomb ready to blow.
And when he does. He cannot control his rage.
He unfortunately needs help. He's to proud to admit or ask for. Or that is his weakness. Admitting he's in the wrong.
I do hope he receives a lengthy custodial sentence. And whilst at Her Majesty's pleasure. Receives some psychological intervention.
In order for him to function as a hunan being.
This is possibly one of the saddest cases this year.
That really could of been avoided. Given the departments working together.
Anyhow. Today's another day.
Let's see what court brings.

Good morning Supernovae... Good morning Websleuthers

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[Gigi-G]

Ha! Hello Websleuths!!!
I've like just had 20+ notifications from where everything was running on a go slow last night.... my fone is going bananas... :0

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[Schmatz]

Totally off topic:
I'm sorry if I come off as terribly rude, but I have been wondering about something on this forum and in this thread especially.
I have noticed that a lot of the times people wrote "should of" instead of "should have" and the same for other examples. "Of" where it should clearly be "have".
Considering this is something so simple and so obvious (that it actually irritates me while reading the posts) I wonder if I'm missing something.
Is this some sort of slang? Something not only said but put in writing as well?
Sorry, if I seem rude. I have been wondering about this for a long time.

 

[flourish]

I think it's a grammar mistake. I don't know that English is everyone's first language. Don't even get me started on incomplete sentences and punctuation lol.

 

[Schmatz]

I'm German myself...

 

[Gigi-G]

Totally off topic:
I'm sorry if I come off as terribly rude, but I have been wondering about something on this forum and in this thread especially.
I have noticed that a lot of the times people wrote "should of" instead of "should have" and the same for other examples. "Of" where it should clearly be "have".
Considering this is something so simple and so obvious (that it actually irritates me while reading the posts) I wonder if I'm missing something.
Is this some sort of slang? Something not only said but put in writing as well?
Sorry, if I seem rude. I have been wondering about this for a long time.

I do apologise if it's me. I do tend to type cuz instead if cause and so on. And a lot of times my head writes faster than my narrative side so then my grammar goes poof out of the window.
On such an emotive post too however when postings are moving very fast like yesterday for instance. It gets increasingly difficult to follow. So you tend to put your pet down as fast as you can. Therefore grammar and punctuation fall by the way side.
It's not intentional Schmatz. Altho my grammar is rather slapdash. And I'm probably very guilty of doing as you state.
I'm not a lawyer. Neither am I an English Language Professor.
I'm just studying via University as a Mature Student "Criminology" I do hope however that the bloopers don't stop your enjoyment of joining in or reading up on the cases. As this is a wonderful site.

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[Gigi-G]

I think it's a grammar mistake. I don't know that English is everyone's first language. Don't even get me started on incomplete sentences and punctuation lol.

My thoughts exactly

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[Gigi-G]

OMFG!!!!!! WHAT AN ABSOLUTE MONSTER!!!!

Father accused of battering his daughter to death 'called girl a c***' http://dailym.ai/1TPh72O via http://dailym.ai/android

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[Legally Bland]

From Gigi's link:

‘I want u to start being alot tougher... Shes being an abs c***... I want to knw y she pissed herself in front of dad and sat there sulking the whole f***ing time,’ Butler said in one message.

Gray replied: ‘I think is terrible so I am going to get tough. U need to be more serious with her too.’

Butler was not sat next to Gray in the dock as the messages were read out in court. His barrister, Icah Peart QC, explained to jurors his client was not feeling well.

Speechless.

 

[Tortoise]

More here

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...er-beat-partner-during-miscarriage-trial-told

 

[Tortoise]

I was in court this afternoon, I'll update later

 

[Gigi-G]

From Gigi's link:



Speechless.

Same here... I am reeling. Why would anyone want to live with an animal like that. Toxic very. Those poor children.

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[Gigi-G]

More here

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...er-beat-partner-during-miscarriage-trial-told

What a complete and utter evil beyond belief monster. I can't find words abhorrent enough to describe him without dumping a load of expletives.

And please don't get me started on her. She definitely sparks him off. Is she that really naive. Thinking that giving him a baby boy would solve 'everything'?
And I'm very sorry but if it were MY house in MY name as usually women with children who are not married. Their names are generally the ones on the tenancy agreement. So HE would of been the one to walk the streets back to his mom and dad.
I really really, really don't get him. Obviously he has a prominent anger management issue. I did say in earlier postings on this thread I'm sure I read he had previous charges from the police.
All consisting of violence. And 2 consisting of injuries including a punch to the face in 2005 to his ex gf.
I find this pertinent cuz roll forward a couple of years and he's in another relationship and in hospital with a 7 week old baby with possible SBS. Head injuries.......... DING DONG!!! BIG RED LIGHT!!!!

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[Gigi-G]

I was in court this afternoon, I'll update later

Looking forward to yr posts Tortoise. Much obliged... and Thanks in advance.

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