GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

  • #681
Have we completely stalled on here? I thought this week was the summing up of evidence? And tying up any loose ends. With any questions that need raised.
Cottonweaver.....? Tortoise......? Jog.....?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #682
Hi Gigi, I haven't seen much in the media this week
 
  • #683
Hi Gigi, I haven't seen much in the media this week
Hey Flutterby. Me neither. I wonder if Tortoise can go thru her notes as to what was expected this week. I even tweeted Danny Shaw yesterday and he said not sure. So idk

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #684
Closing speeches this week Gigi, haven't been able to go in unfortunately and the press aren't reporting anything, presumably because it's repeating evidence already reported. Judge will sum up next week, probably Monday or Tuesday. After that it's over to the jury, so I expect we'll have a verdict next week.

Something that jumped out at me when I was reading a report of one of the earlier trial days was the witness evidence of one of the ambulance crew. She said wtte she couldn't reconcile what BB and JG were telling her had happened with Ellie's injuries and it prompted her to phone the police. I think, as someone who sees accidents day in and day out, she's not an expert in biomechanics or any of that detailed field of work but she draws on her experience and her instincts told her this was not a simple fall as they were saying. She was confronted with parents who appeared to be distraught and doing everything you expect in such a situation to help their daughter, yet with all that going on to cope with she still registered suspicion, which to me is quite remarkable. It is what Brown has said to the jury - draw on your life experience and common sense.
 
  • #685
Closing speeches this week Gigi, haven't been able to go in unfortunately and the press aren't reporting anything, presumably because it's repeating evidence already reported. Judge will sum up next week, probably Monday or Tuesday. After that it's over to the jury, so I expect we'll have a verdict next week.

Something that jumped out at me when I was reading a report of one of the earlier trial days was the witness evidence of one of the ambulance crew. She said wtte she couldn't reconcile what BB and JG were telling her had happened with Ellie's injuries and it prompted her to phone the police. I think, as someone who sees accidents day in and day out, she's not an expert in biomechanics or any of that detailed field of work but she draws on her experience and her instincts told her this was not a simple fall as they were saying. She was confronted with parents who appeared to be distraught and doing everything you expect in such a situation to help their daughter, yet with all that going on to cope with she still registered suspicion, which to me is quite remarkable. It is what Brown has said to the jury - draw on your life experience and common sense.
Ahhhh I thought as much about the going over of evidence. I'm assuming they'd not be needed in court BB & JG? or would they've had to be present in case of any points raised? Jog might be able to fill us in on this part of the Legal system.

Well indeed yes I'm sure the Paramedic would of seen all sorts of injuries from RTA to suicides to injuries/illnesses in the home. ( I'm a prime example. Often Blues n twos to get me into resus)
You can't pull the wool over someone's eyes who deal with this every day.
And she was right to contact Police.
Hopefully the Jury will listen to what's been laid out before them. And use their minds, intelligence, and common sense to reach a hopeful unanimous decision.
It would be nice if it is as quickly resolved as Becky Watts case was. There's quite a few 'recent notorious' criminals in Belmarsh. I expect BB thinks he's too good to mix with the likes of those... thing is.... HE IS one of those! Imo

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #686
If BB was found not guilty, can social services still keep him away from his other daughter based on their own investigation? .. I can't imagine him ever being around another child, especially one that he 'owns.
 
  • #687
Ahhhh I thought as much about the going over of evidence. I'm assuming they'd not be needed in court BB & JG? or would they've had to be present in case of any points raised? Jog might be able to fill us in on this part of the Legal system.

Well indeed yes I'm sure the Paramedic would of seen all sorts of injuries from RTA to suicides to injuries/illnesses in the home. ( I'm a prime example. Often Blues n twos to get me into resus)
You can't pull the wool over someone's eyes who deal with this every day.
And she was right to contact Police.
Hopefully the Jury will listen to what's been laid out before them. And use their minds, intelligence, and common sense to reach a hopeful unanimous decision.
It would be nice if it is as quickly resolved as Becky Watts case was. There's quite a few 'recent notorious' criminals in Belmarsh. I expect BB thinks he's too good to mix with the likes of those... thing is.... HE IS one of those! Imo

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Yes they'll both still be in the dock right up until the jury goes out.

Knowing them they wouldn't miss a second of it anyway, always passing notes (complaints) to their barristers.
 
  • #688
Yes they'll both still be in the dock right up until the jury goes out.

Knowing them they wouldn't miss a second of it anyway, always passing notes (complaints) to their barristers.

They will be present through out. The pros sum up and then both of their barristers with of course their input. The judge will then sum up and so hopefully dispell any nonsense from them and put things into perspective. I am sure this judge will be very careful in summing up bearing in mind the history and his experience to ensure that if they are convicted there is no room for appeal. The fact they have put before the jury all the issues hopefully also means that there would be no cause for an appeal re new evidence. It will be interesting to hear the judges summing up as I am sure in the words of one of our members "mr and mrs gobby" will have something to shout out if they don't agree! So let's see what next week brings. I hope it is justice !
 
  • #689
Yes they'll both still be in the dock right up until the jury goes out.

Knowing them they wouldn't miss a second of it anyway, always passing notes (complaints) to their barristers.
I do pity their barristers. Even when alls said and done and Jury have delivered their verdicts. BB & JG won't let it lie. Especially should they get lengthy sentences. They'll be baying at the press baying at their Solicitors. Baying at anyone who'll give them air time. Mark my words. It won't be over by a long chalk.
Similarly like OP and JMcC &KMcC.
All moo oc.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #690
They will be present through out. The pros sum up and then both of their barristers with of course their input. The judge will then sum up and so hopefully dispell any nonsense from them and put things into perspective. I am sure this judge will be very careful in summing up bearing in mind the history and his experience to ensure that if they are convicted there is no room for appeal. The fact they have put before the jury all the issues hopefully also means that there would be no cause for an appeal re new evidence. It will be interesting to hear the judges summing up as I am sure in the words of one of our members "mr and mrs gobby" will have something to shout out if they don't agree! So let's see what next week brings. I hope it is justice !
I'm too looking forward to next week. I've been champing at the bit all week. Anxious to get things in a rolling momentum.
I don't envy the Judge in his position so to speak. As I said prior in Tortoises post. I really don't think that JG or BB will accept anything but a not guilty verdict. And she's probably hoping that due to her Mental health. That she'll get off with a suspended sentence.
So I really do hope that in the Judges summing up. There is NO mistake in the sentence handed down. And history isn't going to repeat itself.
A beautiful young girls life has been horribly tortured in the first 7 weeks of her life. Then again in the last 11 months of her life. It was brutally snuffed out. I see a picture forming here. Don't you?
It all links. It all makes sense. That she was a punch bag for her vile animal she called her daddy.
And her mommy let him do it!
Both need to rot in hell!

Sorry Jog I'm. Moaning on a tangent somewhere. Hopefully. By the end of next week we will have a decision.

Thank you as always for all yours and everyone's inputs.
It's most appreciated. (:


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #691
If BB was found not guilty, can social services still keep him away from his other daughter based on their own investigation? .. I can't imagine him ever being around another child, especially one that he 'owns.
I'm not entirely sure. I guess all that would be dealt in Family court. But there is so much damning evidence including from both of them. Re child abuse child neglect, liaisons with professional bodies e.g Social services, Doctors. Education Psychologists, School nurse, As well as Psych evaluations from both of them. To include DV Bipolar Postnatal depression etc etc etc.
Personally..my own opinion here.
I really don't think either of them would gain custody of the other sibling. It's bad enough what Ellie had to endure. And quite possibly depending on what the sibling has seen or heard. Gone thru enough in the short life already. I'd say no. And even maybe even no to supervised visits. I don't think neither BB or JG should EVER be trusted around children again. MOO of course

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #692
Hopefully this is JG's last weekend of freedom in a very long time.
 
  • #693
Hopefully this is JG's last weekend of freedom in a very long time.
Yahoooooo! I couldn't agree more!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #694
  • #695
Hopefully this is JG's last weekend of freedom in a very long time.

Even if the verdicts come in this coming week, the sentencing may well be adjourned for a period of time, they often are.
 
  • #696
I do pity their barristers. Even when alls said and done and Jury have delivered their verdicts. BB & JG won't let it lie. Especially should they get lengthy sentences. They'll be baying at the press baying at their Solicitors. Baying at anyone who'll give them air time. Mark my words. It won't be over by a long chalk.
Similarly like OP and JMcC &KMcC.
All moo oc.


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

BBM

If I'm reading you correctly, I think you might appreciate this Wikipedia page on Mrs Justice Hogg, who was the judge who overturned the original finding of fact against these parents and authorised the girls to go back into their care:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Hogg
 
  • #697
Hogg caused controversy in 1996 when she ruled that a pregnant woman could be held in hospital against her will and forced to have her baby by Caesarean section. The woman had wanted to give birth naturally, but was advised by doctors that both she and the child were likely to die as she was suffering from pre-eclampsia. The ruling was later overturned at the Court of Appeal, which ruled that a pregnant woman could refuse medical help even if doing so risked her baby's life.[3]

Disappeared British girl Madeleine McCann was made a ward of court, during summer 2007, on application by her parents.[4]

During a court hearing on 7 July 2008 Hogg made an extraordinary plea to Madeleine's abductor to "show mercy and compassion" and reveal her whereabouts

wow, just a bit controversial then!
 
  • #698
BBM

If I'm reading you correctly, I think you might appreciate this Wikipedia page on Mrs Justice Hogg, who was the judge who overturned the original finding of fact against these parents and authorised the girls to go back into their care:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Hogg
Thank you Supernovae. Interesting reading there. I would of loved to get hold of the case notes. I wonder what swayed her mind. Was it their brilliant acting skills or their brilliant parental skills? 'Quack Quack ops' seems to be a confusion in the question and answer category..
Lol
Seriously tho. I was with an old school friend a few years back. Who I'd bumped into when I was manager of a Nursery. She'd fallen into hard times. Had a string of broken relationships which. A bit like JG she'd get too serious too fast and before you knew it she was pregnant again. By this time she had a daughter 13. (Who dressed like excuse my language as it's how the mom dressed too. A prostitute) by this time though. She'd try and bed her own moms bfs. Totally out if control she was. And drinking 3 or 4 alcohol pops. She had been made a ward of court. And placed OUT of the county. At least 2 hours away. As she's got good at running away.
She had 1 boy of 11 1 boy of 10 a girl of 8 a boy of 5 a girl of 3 and an 18 month old mixed race baby. The 2 eldest boys were taken by the SS. as we're always stealing. They were placed in a secured housing. (Bit like boarding school) which left 4. And she was pregnant again. Becuz of SS and Court were involved with the children. I was already CRV checked for my job. So if she needed me to mind her kids I was the only one allowed to. Well that was like 6+ years ago. She lost the one she was carrying. (DV) and the others were placed in permanent homes. She moved out of the area. No doubt to procreate again. I just couldn't get thru to her. But that case was cut n dried. You knew instinctively there was an issue.
So how did that sit with the Judge on turning over the verdict. What swayed her choice?


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 
  • #699
  • #700
For anyone who is interested like myself. In the 'profiling' aspect of Law. Here is a 40+ something year old case. About a young lad who goes 'missing' anyways. It's by a great profiler who does lecture in this at Universities In the UK. Professor David Wilson.

Now I was reading this interview in the DM. And I had hairs prick up on my neck. Cuz to me.... it fits BB like a glove. See what you think...

http://dailym.ai/1riNJIf

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
131
Guests online
2,819
Total visitors
2,950

Forum statistics

Threads
632,673
Messages
18,630,232
Members
243,245
Latest member
St33l
Back
Top