GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Gigi-G]

Ops... i just noted the time. I too have gotta grab my mobile oxygen n go to vote tomorrow.... not fixed on either way tbf lol... can i vote Disneyland plz?

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[Gigi-G]

Nunight ☆

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[soozieqtips]

Hi and welcome soozieqtips.
It's something you and us and a lot of the general public are asking.
Being on this case from the early days we all felt there was more at foot. But legal restrictions all we could do is challenge different analogies.
With Grampy Neal I'm hoping he does get his answers. God forbid. He needs his closure. As do JGs siblings. As for Justice Mary Hogg. I feel that she has to reply to the outpouring of questions. That is the minimum I would expect.
But it's not all blame at her door. There were many agencies involved. And they all need to show their accountability.

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BIB - they certainly do. However, the judge made the final call with all that she knew about BB's history. Did she know that Ellie wanted to stay with her grandparents? Or that the SFC sped up the transfer despite knowing Ellie was worrying about having to live with her parents? I don't know all the details, but it seems like Ellie's needs and desires were completely dismissed.

Back in the 60s when my parents were fighting over custody of myself and my older brother (we were both living with my father's parents at the time) - we had to go to court and get up on the stand and tell the judge who we wanted to live with. We had a very nice barrister called Dorothy and the court staff were kind (I got a lollipop!) but I was just 6 years old and it was a very scary experience. I managed to tell the judge I wanted to live with my mother. My brother chose my father and at the end of the hearing we all went our separate ways. It was very sad as nobody had told me there was a chance I'd be separated from my brother. But at least our wishes were listened to and considered. Unlike Ellie, whose wishes were heard and then discarded.

 

[flutterby]

The EU? has it really got worse since the 70s or as i feel. Since the 70s everyone had a tv. Everyone had a fone. Everyone had a car in the family.
Everything in technology was zipping forward. Television became the thing. If somethiing happened reporters would be there.
We know more cuz we are showed more..
In comes the internet cable tv satellite dishes..... so in and so on.

There's more out there now. A child goes missing within a few hours its all over the network globally

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Actually, there's some evidence that murder rates have doubled since the introduction of TV. Scary stuff. Maybe it's anecdotal as I'm struggling to find anything on google to back me up!

Nanight!

 

[flutterby]

Actually, there's some evidence that murder rates have doubled since the introduction of TV. Scary stuff. Maybe it's anecdotal as I'm struggling to find anything on google to back me up!

Nanight!

Found it! http://articles.philly.com/1989-04-22/news/26145942_1_murder-rate-homicide-rate-ronny-zamora

His discovery: Almost like clockwork, 10 to 15 years after television is introduced, a country's murder rate shoots up dramatically. That's just enough time, he notes, for the first generation of children weaned on television to reach adulthood and move into their most crime-prone years.

Not sure I'm convinced of this bit though?

The average child at 16, it's claimed, has witnessed 18,000 televised murders.

 

[Renee110]

The video with Neal, is just so so absolutely heartbreaking, such dignity and what a safe and loving home Ellie had. I cannot ever imagine his pain, what he and his wife had to step back from and endure is unbelievable. I am feeling so utterly utterly sad.

I agree, but this just makes me think how horrific this must have been for poor Ellie, going from a loving, nurturing and safe home to such violence, hatred, cruelty and being dead in less than a year. This is tragic all the way around.

 

[Gigi-G]

Found it! http://articles.philly.com/1989-04-22/news/26145942_1_murder-rate-homicide-rate-ronny-zamora



Not sure I'm convinced of this bit though?

Well when you put in the frame games machines. consoles. xboxes. playstations. films. tv shows. news. history. wars. cartoons even. I think that its quite possible. Even if you monitor what yr child has access to at home. There has always been murders. You learn history at school.. and every child now has access to the www. :/

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[Gigi-G]

I agree, but this just makes me think how horrific this must have been for poor Ellie, going from a loving, nurturing and safe home to such violence, hatred, cruelty and being dead in less than a year. This is tragic all the way around.

Grampy Neal has lost 4 people in his life to date now.
Ellie
Ellie's sibling
his loving wife Linda
JG
I just feel so much for him. I just hope he can find some peace thru this now ♡

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[Gigi-G]

Trying 2nd time to bed. :/
Too hot

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[flutterby]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...n-death-parents-quest-for-truth-after-inquest

another sad baby case

 

[Renee110]

JG reported having been a DV victim in her first marriage to the Brazilian ( got married at age 17 as per posts upthread)

IMO she is a Professional Victim.... she loves it...

 

[cottonweaver]

Lol - could be worse - she might sleepwalk and think her cell mate is BB - yikes! :scared::

He`ll probably have lots of lonely, deluded women writing to him, certain that they can redeem him. JG had better watch out - he could even get married to one of his future admirers :thinking:

:laughing:

BB already has mail. "S.W.A.L.K." and a lips-print in pearly peach lipstick
"from your Mary"













(Hogg):blushing:

 

[cottonweaver]

Ops... i just noted the time. I too have gotta grab my mobile oxygen n go to vote tomorrow.... not fixed on either way tbf lol... can i vote Disneyland plz?

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LOL. Don't say BIB in the polling office Gigi. They'll put you in that white van or they'll hold your hand for you and mark the x for you?!

My problem was I read too much about it in the last two weeks. So it went from being a simple choice to being undecided , as I became more bamboozled by zillions of facts which contradicted both voting positions. Plus this perhaps the most significant election we have had in the UK for a long time.
( Not happy with the way that the murder of poor Jo Cox has been exploited now though.)

 

[Gigi-G]

I have woken with the most horrendous headache.... and noo not hangover lol. I rarely drink enough to get one.
My stats are low bp hr o2. I must of had such a restless night id scooped off my cannula. It was far too humid here last night. So ive med'd up. Back on the o2 machine took couple paracetamol n gonna laze/doze a bit till everything gets good.
Plus i gotts get all poshed n polished for a 5 minute trip to the polling station. N take my newly aquired mobile oxygen thingamijig. What a rigmarole for a 10 minuet bimble! 😅

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[Gigi-G]

LOL. Don't say BIB in the polling office Gigi. They'll put you in that white van or they'll hold your hand for you and mark the x for you?!

My problem was I read too much about it in the last two weeks. So it went from being a simple choice to being undecided , as I became more bamboozled by zillions of facts which contradicted both voting positions. Plus this perhaps the most significant election we have had in the UK for a long time.
( Not happy with the way that the murder of poor Jo Cox has been exploited now though.)

Ha! I hear you altho i much prefer tom n jerry to be in number 10 & 11 downing st.
Yes. Sweet Jo Cox. Such a sad loss of a beautiful soul.
Same here Cottonweaver. I was dead sure when this all came about as to which id choose. But now im 50/50
I think we should keep our own borders. Monetary system. less money/funds sent in EU to Brussels. No to their working time directive. No to their heavy haulage transport rules. Each country should draft exclusions to work with Brussels. One "matriarchal presiding over all EU countries" wont work. Power has to be at a country governing bodies level. Tailored to suit.
Otherwise the smaller countries in the EU will just collapse financially. We've already seen that with Greece. And Italy and Spain. If its a remain. Then there's some points theyre gonna gave to sort. Else it will all go pete tong.
Anyways meds taken. Im off for an hour on the o2. Need to up my stats.. play nice ya'll!

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[michelle230]

Lol - would be good if she could move closer - like next door!

 

[Supernovae]

O

"Plus I genuinely feel there was some reverse snobbery* going on. Hogg is an aristo. I can't explain it properly"
Champagne socialist???

One of her relatives was a Conservative MP, so probably not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hogg

 

[Supernovae]

Ops... i just noted the time. I too have gotta grab my mobile oxygen n go to vote tomorrow.... not fixed on either way tbf lol... can i vote Disneyland plz?

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You can get to Disneyland more easily in the EU. ;-)

 

[Gigi-G]

You can get to Disneyland more easily in the EU. ;-)

Ooooh nonono. I want to go to the BIG original Disneyland. Florida!

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[Gigi-G]

On the EU. I'm most concerned about the political forces that would be empowered by a Brexit vote, and get to shape the aftermath, and I don't just mean Britain First. It would be the most right wing, libertarian, everyone out for themselves wing of the Conservative Party. When they talk about no more red tape, what they're talking about is protections for consumers, workers and the environment. Which isn't to say that the EU doesn't have many problems as and institution. The economic modelling also consistently comes out in favour whether you believe every number or factoid or not.

It'd be years before the exit of EU would finalise. Theyve gotta go thru the treaty of something or other and untangle all the issues on there with the currency and trading laws.

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