UK - Five Bamber family members dead at White House Farm, Essex, 1986

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  • #104
The Netflix documentary is shown again over 4 weeks from tonight at 9, on Sky Mix, Freeview Ch.11.
 
  • #105
talk tv
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  • #106
bambers compliants were upheld
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  • #107
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  • #108
If you don’t want to pay, you can read it by inputting the article’s web address on archive.ph

FWIW I think he’s guilty and this articles does not convince me otherwise.
 
  • #109
Ahead of the 40th anniversary of the crime, Bamber’s lawyers say they have photographic proof that a second silencer, which they claim was seized by police on the day of the killings at White House Farm, was also examined by investigators but never disclosed to the defence
 
  • #110
talk tv debate
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  • #111
The Netflix documentary is shown again over 4 weeks from tonight at 9, on Sky Mix, Freeview Ch.11.
What Netflix documentary?

Do you mean Sky documentary?
 
  • #112
FWIW I think he’s guilty and this articles does not convince me otherwise.
I have long been of the opinion that the verdict in this case was dodgy and that Bamber would never have been convicted by a modern jury.

The case has to be looked at in the context of the time at which he was convicted. He was convicted in 1986, only two years after PACE (the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984). There had long been widespread concerns over the behaviour and almost certain corruption affecting many UK police forces in the 1960s and 1970s, where evidence was strongly suspected to have been fabricated and/or planted and officers to have lied under oath to ensure the convictions of whoever they fancied for the crime.

PACE was introduced to address precisely the issues around fabricated and planted evidence and false evidence given by the police but it took time for all of the measures introduced to fully bed in and become part of established police practice across the UK. Nevertheless, it is known that issues remain to this day, albeit much less common than they were before PACE.

What is significant about the Bamber case is the importance of claims that:
(1) someone was moving inside the house while Bamber was outside talking to the police; and
(2) the silencer supposedly used in the killings was planted at the property after the initial police search of it and after Bamber was in police custody.

Both of these points have been argued back and forth and disputed over the decades, but I strongly believe that if that evidence were to be presented in court today, it would create more than enough doubt to prevent a jury bringing in a guilty verdict. In other words, Bamber would have walked free.

In courts in England and Wales and Northern Ireland there are only two possible verdicts - guilty or not guilty. In Scotland there is a third option for the jury - not proven, which basically means "We think/know the bugger did it but there isn't enough evidence to convict". I suspect that if the Bamber case had been tried in Scotland it would very likely have ended with a not proven verdict.
 
  • #113
Below video is absolutely interesting. Must watch

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  • #114
I tried watching that video, but when they implied the police were responsible for the second wound to Sheila's neck, I about died. It's disgusting that these people are trying to implicate Sheila in this tragic murder and making about her psychosis, police mishandling and negligent discharge while handling the rifle. Taking out all the evidence regarding the bible placement, double wounds to her neck, her loosely surmised state of mind, suppressor information, and more, how does one even remotely explain her extremely clean body AND blood trail down her night gown that is vertically driven?

I have seen the body of Sheila, and several photos are online in color. You can clearly see her hands were very clean, nails not dirty or broken, her feet were clean, the nightgown not torn, messy, bloody (except her blood). Nothing at all even remotely suggests she could have ran around among blood and struggled with her 6'4" father, then bludgeoned him with the stock of the rifle, thus breaking the stock. The broken stock is seen in the photos of Sheila with the rifle on her body. She has literally no bruises or anything on her body. BUT, those horrible people want to claim she had cuts on her, which is simply not true and the photos show that fact. They have an agenda - to blame a mentally unwell girl and posit the story Jeremy wants them to believe. I am really bothered by it, despite being an old case. The blaming of a girl who would have had to kill her children, when that is not supported makes me sick. A girl on antipsychotics that make you tired, weak, and less capable of someone without medication in their system.

Then the asinine assertion that the police just botched the whole crime scene, as if to set Jeremy up when a month transpired before Julie Mugford clued them in to the real perpetrator. Up to that point, Essex police believed it was a suicide, given the lack of forensic knowledge they had in 1985. If anything, did none of them wonder how such a small female could have created such a scene but remained free of any injury or 3rd party blood on them? The children were the only two who did not move from the bed, the mother and father both exited the bed injured.

And going back to the bible. It belonged to the mother and was not placed there by police. The crime scene photos give a sense it was covered in a trail of blood that continued from Sheila's injury, this not placed well after the fact. Again, a ridiculous clouding of the evidence to try and cast doubt on the scene. Jeremy Bamber was known to commit crimes, even stealing from his family and a business they owned with Julie Mugford. Jeremy attempted to sell adult photos of his sister very shortly after the crime. He is a nasty person and it's disturbing anyone wants to remove his guilty verdict. That farm is still, to this day, very remote. Who else would have entered and used a family weapon to commit those murders? I think it's common sense Sheila is an innocent victim. If you have any questions, look at her body at the house and really consider all the blood Nigel and his wife had on/around them, then consider the struggle Nigel would have had with a female or male and see what makes most sense.

I'm sorry, it just makes me mad, lol
 
  • #115
i think the conviction is unsafe to say the least but im not totally convinced jeremys innocent
 
  • #116
I have long been of the opinion that the verdict in this case was dodgy and that Bamber would never have been convicted by a modern jury.

The case has to be looked at in the context of the time at which he was convicted. He was convicted in 1986, only two years after PACE (the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984). There had long been widespread concerns over the behaviour and almost certain corruption affecting many UK police forces in the 1960s and 1970s, where evidence was strongly suspected to have been fabricated and/or planted and officers to have lied under oath to ensure the convictions of whoever they fancied for the crime.

PACE was introduced to address precisely the issues around fabricated and planted evidence and false evidence given by the police but it took time for all of the measures introduced to fully bed in and become part of established police practice across the UK. Nevertheless, it is known that issues remain to this day, albeit much less common than they were before PACE.

What is significant about the Bamber case is the importance of claims that:
(1) someone was moving inside the house while Bamber was outside talking to the police; and
(2) the silencer supposedly used in the killings was planted at the property after the initial police search of it and after Bamber was in police custody.

Both of these points have been argued back and forth and disputed over the decades, but I strongly believe that if that evidence were to be presented in court today, it would create more than enough doubt to prevent a jury bringing in a guilty verdict. In other words, Bamber would have walked free.

In courts in England and Wales and Northern Ireland there are only two possible verdicts - guilty or not guilty. In Scotland there is a third option for the jury - not proven, which basically means "We think/know the bugger did it but there isn't enough evidence to convict". I suspect that if the Bamber case had been tried in Scotland it would very likely have ended with a not proven verdict.

Completely agree with this. Even in ‘86 he was only convicted by a 10 to 2 majority. I feel distinctly uncomfortable with majority verdicts in murder trials anyway, but imo it’s absolutely ludicrous that someone like Bamber can be locked up for the rest of their lives when around 17% of the jury weren’t convinced of their guilt.

As someone living in Scotland I think the third ‘not proven’ option is useful and would be a good fit in this case.
 
  • #117
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  • #118
^ He's a psycho. I've always thought he was guilty.
 
  • #119
^ He's a psycho. I've always thought he was guilty.
Wasn't it proven that she could not have shot herself and then have placed the silencer in the cupboard?
It is unfathomable to me how some people believe this narcissistic psychopath.
40 years on and this is the best he can do? The police shot Shelia postmortem?
Absolute nonsense.
ETA: Should have pointed out that Shelia would have had to shoot herself twice and then placed the silencer in the cupboard.
Complete rubbish from a murderous psychopath desperate for freedom.
 
  • #120
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The suggestion the gun was accidentally fired causing the second gunshot wound dates back years. This is from 2020:


The evidence to support it is that ‘before the Essex police photographer began taking crime scene photographs at the scene at 10.20am on 7 August, illustrating that Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, five senior officers and the police surgeon had seen Caffell and suggested there was only one wound.’

Had their initial statements been disclosed at the trial, how different might the jury’s verdict have been?

Similarly, while the jury was told after asking for clarification that ‘only the blood of Sheila Caffell’ was found on the silencer, prior to the trial ‘the head of biology at Huntingdon Science Laboratories wrote a letter to Essex Police saying that the results of the blood tests would show that the blood “could have come from either Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour”. Boutflour was a regular visitor to White House farm and had used the guns kept there for shooting.’

The silencer was a key plank of the case. After the judge’s clarification, the jury returned just 17 minutes later with a majority guilty verdict.


JMO, I think it’s very reasonable to suspect the majority threshold wouldn’t have been reached had the jury been informed of any of this information. Does that make Bamber innocent? I’ve absolutely no idea, but locking someone up for life based on a majority verdict when information such as this wasn’t disclosed to the jury doesn’t sit right with me.
 

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