UK - Five Bamber family members dead at White House Farm, Essex, 1986
- Thread starter missacorah
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It was ‘proven’ in the sense that Sheila’s blood was said to have been on the silencer, and obviously she couldn’t have shot herself twice with the silencer attached then removed it and placed it in the cupboard - therefore, Bamber must’ve shot her with the silencer attached before removing it and putting it away.
But if the blood wasn’t hers, then it’s possible the silencer wasn’t used during the killings, hence the possibility that she shot herself opens up.
Am I remotely convinced she annihilated her family then shot herself? No. But the evidence that was presented at trial ruled this possibility out, yet we now know that the blood might not have been hers, and we also know that at least six people (one of whom was a police surgeon) saw Sheila’s body and initially believed there to be only one gunshot wound. Is it very likely police accidentally shot Sheila’s corpse, creating a second wound? I’m not convinced on that point either, but we know they interfered with the scene - ‘Detective Sergeant Neil Davidson recalled that Detective Inspector Ron Cook had stood “fumbling” with the Bible, before asking which page it had been on, and had then put it back by Sheila’s body before the pictures were taken to “re-create what we just screwed up.”’ - so imo it’s possible.
Had the evidence that someone might’ve been seen moving around inside the house while Bamber was outside with police also been disclosed at the trial, I think it’s highly likely that Bamber would’ve walked. Whether that would’ve been the ‘right’ outcome is debatable.
The police didn’t handle it brilliantly either. At one point after being handed over to an intoxicated DS Jones, the whereabouts of it went undocumented for 17 days. “During this time, he tested for fingerprints, but claimed not to have found a single discernible print—despite the many ungloved hands that had handled the silencer since its discovery”.
As @MelmothTheLost alluded to yesterday, in this day and age juries almost certainly wouldn’t put any weight on evidence that had been mishandled like this, people are too savvy about this stuff, too forensically aware.
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This is a case like the Lucy Letby where I swing from one side to another.
Have always been convinced of Bamber's guilt. An arrogant so-and-so he never believed he would be found out. And to murder those two innocent children, only a psychopath, a complete nutter or a cold-blooded murderer could do that. I interviewed Colin Caffell, the boys' father, some years after, and his magnanimity towards Bamber was more than I could show in same circumstances. The case always hit home as I later lived just over the road from Sheila's flat in Maida Vale and couldn't help thinking each time I passed how it could ever have happened.
I watched the two-parter documentary on C4 over the last 2 nights - White House Farm: Murder, Bloodline and Betrayal - which included phone interviews with Bamber from as recently as this June. The Court of Appeal having rejected four of the grounds his lawyers argue undermine safety of conviction for 1985 murders, there are still another six to be reviewed.
The thing from the doc that I had either forgotten or not heard before, was the timed alleged call from Nevill Bamber saying his daughter had gone berserk with a gun, that came before the call from Jeremy Bamber. Surely that points starkly to Sheila Caffell being responsible?
But on the other hand, issues like the level of violence particularly towards her father who was quite a big man, the 'staged' look of her laying down with an open bible by her, don't stack up.
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Have always been convinced of Bamber's guilt. An arrogant so-and-so he never believed he would be found out. And to murder those two innocent children, only a psychopath, a complete nutter or a cold-blooded murderer could do that. I interviewed Colin Caffell, the boys' father, some years after, and his magnanimity towards Bamber was more than I could show in same circumstances. The case always hit home as I later lived just over the road from Sheila's flat in Maida Vale and couldn't help thinking each time I passed how it could ever have happened.
I watched the two-parter documentary on C4 over the last 2 nights - White House Farm: Murder, Bloodline and Betrayal - which included phone interviews with Bamber from as recently as this June. The Court of Appeal having rejected four of the grounds his lawyers argue undermine safety of conviction for 1985 murders, there are still another six to be reviewed.
The thing from the doc that I had either forgotten or not heard before, was the timed alleged call from Nevill Bamber saying his daughter had gone berserk with a gun, that came before the call from Jeremy Bamber. Surely that points starkly to Sheila Caffell being responsible?
But on the other hand, issues like the level of violence particularly towards her father who was quite a big man, the 'staged' look of her laying down with an open bible by her, don't stack up.
The clues that Jeremy Bamber was the REAL White House Farm killer
A new documentary has revealed how Jeremy Bamber was finally outed as the real White House Farm murderer in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex.
Review body refuses to refer Jeremy Bamber case back to court of appeal
CCRC says four of the grounds his lawyers argue undermine safety of conviction for 1985 murders fail to meet threshold
But I don't think the evidence of a call from Nevill to the police stacks up. There are relevant two documents. One, marked 336, is clearly a record of a call from Jeremy Bamber to the police and recorded as such. The other, marked 326, looks like a dispatch instruction for officers to go to the house. It says at the bottom that the relevant message was relayed by the son of Nevill Bamber i.e. Jeremy. So they appear to be two documents referring to the same phone call from Jeremy to the police: one a record of the call itself (probably written up a few minutes later); and one a note about the officers being sent to the address (probably done first, given urgency). I'm not sure there's anything to see here.This is a case like the Lucy Letby where I swing from one side to another.
Have always been convinced of Bamber's guilt. An arrogant so-and-so he never believed he would be found out. And to murder those two innocent children, only a psychopath, a complete nutter or a cold-blooded murderer could do that. I interviewed Colin Caffell, the boys' father, some years after, and his magnanimity towards Bamber was more than I could show in same circumstances. The case always hit home as I later lived just over the road from Sheila's flat in Maida Vale and couldn't help thinking each time I passed how it could ever have happened.
I watched the two-parter documentary on C4 over the last 2 nights - White House Farm: Murder, Bloodline and Betrayal - which included phone interviews with Bamber from as recently as this June. The Court of Appeal having rejected four of the grounds his lawyers argue undermine safety of conviction for 1985 murders, there are still another six to be reviewed.
The thing from the doc that I had either forgotten or not heard before, was the timed alleged call from Nevill Bamber saying his daughter had gone berserk with a gun, that came before the call from Jeremy Bamber. Surely that points starkly to Sheila Caffell being responsible?
But on the other hand, issues like the level of violence particularly towards her father who was quite a big man, the 'staged' look of her laying down with an open bible by her, don't stack up.
The clues that Jeremy Bamber was the REAL White House Farm killer
A new documentary has revealed how Jeremy Bamber was finally outed as the real White House Farm murderer in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex.
Review body refuses to refer Jeremy Bamber case back to court of appeal
CCRC says four of the grounds his lawyers argue undermine safety of conviction for 1985 murders fail to meet threshold
Should also add that the 'evidence' of there being movement in the house between 0400 and 0600 is also deeply unconvincing. The main comment to that effect is from Jeremy Bamber himself! Police officer Webb has said that any impression of movement in upper windows was probably just moonlight reflection. So there is no serious witness evidence to this effect. Moreover the 'evidence' of an emergency call from the house at c. 0600 also appears deeply suspect - a police officer was quoted to this effect in a New Yorker article, but the same police officer later denied ever having spoken to the New Yorker! Add all this up, and you can see that the 'new evidence' would be shredded to pieces in seconds by any barrister worth their money.
It's a very curious case where I think three things are true : (a) he probably did it, mainly on the grounds of Sheila having done it being seriously implausible; (b) the evidence at the initial trial had flaws and gaps; and (c) the evidence that has come to light since the trial provides a poor basis for an appeal.
Except, when Sgt Bews gave evidence at Bamber’s trial, he said: “I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that.” Bews and PC Myall plus Bamber had been performing a recce of the house when this incident happened. Now, it’s true that in 2010 Bews told the Tonight programme that it was *Bamber* who first claimed to see movement, but just a year later in another interview Bews claimed it was *Myall* who was the source, with Myall apparently saying to Bews: “I think I saw someone move”. Very peculiar.
I walk to work in the dark most mornings and I’ve never seen moonlight reflecting on windows in rooms where the curtains are open and the lights are on - as the lights and curtains in the room were recorded as being.
Sure. But none of that is remotely close to a reliable piece of witness evidence that people were alive and moving in the house at that time.
It isn’t, but as with most aspects of this case it seems police were constantly chopping and changing their stories to better suit the narrative that Bamber did it. The amount of statements that were changed or have never been disclosed is quite incredible imo, nothing about the investigation or the trial sits right with me.
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