UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

[JerricaBenton]

Official findings of the neonatal unit and it's short comings:

http://www.coch.nhs.uk/media/141843...final_-for_dissemination-_08_02_17_1_30pm.pdf

Thank you for this, an interesting read!

 

[DaveShu]

It's all speculation - the report I linked to says the "apparent" rise in infant mortality - they aren't even really sure if it was suspicious.

They also didn't carry out full post mortems, test for toxicology, etc.

They also only interviewed the medical staff who worked on the ward, not other people with access to the ward, e.g. cleaners and other staff.

They also don't seem to have considered that a lot of these infants are transferred from other hospitals - so which hospitals did they come from, who had access to the mother (in labour), the child after birth, including the transport personnel.

etc.

Typical half hearted, badly thought out investigation from top to bottom IMHO.

 

[Tortoise]

My thoughts are that if she was such a prolific killer she wouldn't have just stopped because of a change in duties. This must have been out of control progressive killing behaviour to have involved around 30 babies. So I am skeptical.

 

[Francesca]

I agree - she doesn't fit the profile of someone with a "hero" complex... the kind of person who wants to be the one giving CPR to a patient, so they can get the praise for "saving" a life. This does seem like scapegoating to me, mainly because I think it is strange that her name and photograph have been released, but not any of the concrete evidence that convicted her. There is mention of CCTV footage but what could that show except a nurse tending to a very small baby?
It makes me think of the parents accused of murder because more than one child died of cot death. It could be circumstantial evidence that she was connected to various children who died.
At this point, I'm not sure what is worse - a dedicated loving nurse wrongly accused of murder when babies have died through natural causes or poor hospital management; or someone who appeared to be dedicated and loving, turning out to be a deadly danger to her patients. The poor parents who lost their babies may never feel any peace from this - either they entrusted their a killer, or if she is found innocent after this, they will struggle to believe their child died naturally.

 

[DaveShu]

Interesting news article about the state of the hospital and how it was run:

"The woman, who wished to remain anonymous, told the Guardian her son was born at the hospital by an emergency cesarean section in September 2015 and spent two days in the neonatal unit.

She said: “My son stopped breathing after I was induced and the negligence in the hospital was absolutely horrendous from the start. They had no staff and the care was just terrible. Some of the midwives were lovely but the majority weren’t. I ended up having a horrendous time after giving birth.

“My son was in the neonatal unit and I developed an infection which was due to negligence by a member of staff. We made a complaint at the time but it was brushed under the carpet.”"

Cheshire baby deaths: police widen inquiry to second hospital

 

[dawnlouise81]

This is my home town, and I had my daughter at the Countess in Dec 2013. They were great with me and I’m feeling so sad for those babies.

Now they’re digging up her back garden
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...al-nurse-28-arrested-baby-deaths-Chester.html

 

[2Hope4]

I don't anything about this nurse, but something just doesn't feel right here. And I haven't followed many crimes in the UK, but is it normal for them to be releasing much about her? Seems I remember information being kept out of public until a trial in most cases? Maybe I am remembering wrong (wouldn't be the first time!)

 

[MsGazette]

This is my home town, and I had my daughter at the Countess in Dec 2013. They were great with me and I’m feeling so sad for those babies.

Now they’re digging up her back garden
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...al-nurse-28-arrested-baby-deaths-Chester.html

Oh my goodness...I thought that was some kind of phrase I was unaware of...”digging up her back garden.” Nope! They are actually searching a garden. I wonder what all of this digging and checking gutters and drains is all about. It’s giving me a very uneasy feeling. Thanks for posting and I’m glad your experience at this hospital was a good one!

 

[Eloise]

I'm with you all on being a bit skeptical. She doesn't fit what I was thinking the suspect/perp would be like. Not that my thoughts on the matter count for anything whatsoever! But I imagined someone who'd been in the field a very long time, was very bitter and maybe harbouring a lot of hatred grown over decades for women and babies, OR like someone said upthread someone with a hero complex doing stuff to the babies so they could come in and be the messiah of the maternity unit (like that guy charged just the other day for doing that so he could be the CPR czar at his hospital, but it resulted in deaths).

Now, it's not impossible. She could have some kind of mental illness that isn't diagnosed or obvious. But this could turn out to be something systemic that's just being pinned on her because she's an easy scapegoat.

Whatever happened, I hope that justice is done... whether that be that it is a deliberate act, or if things have gotten so out of control that babies are dying from poor care due to systemic issues. In which case I wonder if it's some kind of workplace bullying that she's being targeted.

 

[DaveShu]

She's been released on bail, which means the Police have, as predicted got jack all - because she didn't do it.

And digging up the garden - is that for the media, and to try and paint her as even more guilty?

What do they normally dig up gardens for? - Answer: Bodies.

Well there aren't going to be any, they all died on the neonatal ward at the hospital, so that looks like a deliberate smear campaign to me.

 

[Tortoise]

She's been released on bail, which means the Police have, as predicted got jack all - because she didn't do it.

And digging up the garden - is that for the media, and to try and paint her as even more guilty?

What do they normally dig up gardens for? - Answer: Bodies.

Well there aren't going to be any, they all died on the neonatal ward at the hospital, so that looks like a deliberate smear campaign to me.

I agree. We sure would have been told if there was a missing body from the count, or from anywhere she had worked.

 

[dawnlouise81]

Oh my goodness...I thought that was some kind of phrase I was unaware of...”digging up her back garden.” Nope! They are actually searching a garden. I wonder what all of this digging and checking gutters and drains is all about. It’s giving me a very uneasy feeling. Thanks for posting and I’m glad your experience at this hospital was a good one!

Thank you, I had a tough labour and they were fantastic.
I was born here myself (37 years ago!) I’ve always thought of it to be a good hospital.
Now she’s released on bail so the press naming her is wrong, if she’s innocent then her reputation is ruined.

 

[Supernovae]

I don't anything about this nurse, but something just doesn't feel right here. And I haven't followed many crimes in the UK, but is it normal for them to be releasing much about her? Seems I remember information being kept out of public until a trial in most cases? Maybe I am remembering wrong (wouldn't be the first time!)

I don't know how much was released by the police, other than bare bones information. A lot of the surrounding information will have been dug up by the press and the tabloids in particular.

 

[Supernovae]

There's a broader issue with this kind of case involving health care workers. Here's an interesting article by the science writer Ben Goldacre, about a case involving a Dutch nurse called Lucia de Berk (I understand that she subsequently had her conviction overturned):

Losing the lottery – Bad Science

Here's the MSM version (he used to have a regular column in the Guardian) albeit less detailed than the one on his website:

Ben Goldacre: Lies, damned lies and statistics

A version of the above was also published in a chapter of his book "Bad Science."

The argument is that these sorts of cases can result in miscarriages of justice arising out of freak (but ultimately completely expectable) statistical clusters and cognitive biases.

 

[Supernovae]

Here's another old article from The Justice Gap about this very issue:

How to become a convicted serial killer (without killing anyone) - The Justice Gap

 

[DaveShu]

Supernovae - 2 absolutely brilliant posts there, and I honestly believe 100% that this is what is happening here.

What struck me about one of those articles was where it said "that nurse who's a bit odd- she sticks in your mind" (or words to that effect) - EXACTLY what they are saying about poor LL!

 

[Jealoushe]

How can one be so sure she is innocent, because you don't have all the inside information?

Many serial killers do not fit the profile of what you would expect.

 

[keeleydoll]

Good grief, I didn’t need to read this one. Homebirth is the best thing I’ve ever done and if I were to have another child I wouldn’t step foot in a hospital unless my life or that of my child was at risk. The NHS in the UK advises that homebirth with a midwife is safer in a low risk pregnancy than a hospital birth. That said, anyone who wishes to birth in a hospital should feel safe in doing so, not frightened that their newborn could be the victim of a murderer.

 

[DaveShu]

How can one be so sure she is innocent, because you don't have all the inside information?

Many serial killers do not fit the profile of what you would expect.

The Police interviewed her for what - 2 or 3 days?

They had all of the time in the world to gather all of their evidence before, they've had all of the time to go through her house, her parents house, even the neighbours house now apparently.

And yet they've released her without charge, which means there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, they are basing it all on statistics and the assumtion that this slight increase in deaths is not a natural anomaly - read the articles posted by Supernovae.

If there was any "inside information" she would have been charged, not released.

 

[forthefreefood]

Does anyone have even an idea of what they could possibly be looking for at her house and on her neighbors roof? This doesnt make any sense. It looks like it's all a show to me.