UK UK - Jack O'Sullivan, 22, left friends after night out, last seen Brunel Lock Road/Brunel Way, Bristol at 3.15am, 2 Mar 2024

  • #601
How many deaths occur in England, regarding canals and towpaths? I have noticed they have become more common, compared to 20 years ago.
And am I right in thinking that water specialists and those experienced in the movement of water and tides looked into this case at the time of disappearance (and shortly after) and said that they'd have expected a body to have been washed up by then if Jack had indeed perished in the water?
JMO.
 
  • #602
I seem to remember there was a potential CCTV sighting at around 5.40am around Hotwell Road by the River Avon, back in the very early days but I can’t recall what happened with it, could it just not be confirmed? This is also the time Jack’s Find my Phone app says he is at an address at Granby Hill in the Hotwells area and his phone is receiving WhatsApp messages, so I was curious.

I don't recall there ever being CCTV or potential CCTV at 5.40am. There was one CCTV that was proven not to be Jack, but that was before 5.40am, so that could be the one you mean.

How many deaths occur in England, regarding canals and towpaths? I have noticed they have become more common, compared to 20 years ago.

I found an article saying there were 242 canal related deaths recorded across the UK between 2013 and 2020. 157 of those were in England. Between 2017 and 2022, 66 people died in Greater Manchester’s waterways, with a five-year record high of 15 deaths in 2021. I know it's not Bristol's stats, but gives some kind of morbid insight into the regularity (or irregularity?) of this happening.

There are several different datasets and they seem to provide different numbers. Some seem to suggest people died "on" the network of canals so they may not all be drownings but they may have died nearby the canal but it gets logged as a canal death (can't confirm this, but this is how their wording makes it sound).

And am I right in thinking that water specialists and those experienced in the movement of water and tides looked into this case at the time of disappearance (and shortly after) and said that they'd have expected a body to have been washed up by then if Jack had indeed perished in the water?
JMO.

Yes. The family posted about this very topic and discussed it during an online interview. Not an exact quote, but Jack's mother explained that there's a specialist in charge of the waterways/locks in Bristol who said that they'd never had a body that didn't show up in that area if the missing person was suspected of drowning and that he believed if Jack was in water, he'd have been found.

Of course, that doesn't rule it out, but it means that even a senior figure who works with those waters everyday doesn't seem to think Jack will have gone into the water.

Playing devil's advocate...it does contradict other reports and articles I read that said if Jack did enter those waters, the flow of the current leads rapidly out of Bristol and the chances of ever being found are slim to none.

It's hard to know who is accurate. Personally I don't think Jack entered water and I explained why in the past few pages. I could be wrong, though.
 
  • #603
I found an article saying there were 242 canal related deaths recorded across the UK between 2013 and 2020. 157 of those were in England. Between 2017 and 2022, 66 people died in Greater Manchester’s waterways, with a five-year record high of 15 deaths in 2021. I know it's not Bristol's stats, but gives some kind of morbid insight into the regularity (or irregularity?) of this happening.

There are several different datasets and they seem to provide different numbers. Some seem to suggest people died "on" the network of canals so they may not all be drownings but they may have died nearby the canal but it gets logged as a canal death (can't confirm this, but this is how their wording makes it sound).

Thank you very much for your reply. The statistics that you have shown is indeed worrying.

15 deaths in one year in Manchester's canals should be a reason for an inquest. Something is seriously wrong. As these deaths now include Bristol, it surely cannot be a coincidence.

What does throwing innocent unbeknownst people into a canal prove? Only psychopathy can be the reason. Did the perpetrator/s move from Manchester to Bristol?

The multiple deaths (suicides?) amongst the youth in Bridgend (South Wales last decade needs to be looked into, to see if there is a connection.
 
  • #604
  • #605
Thank you very much for your reply. The statistics that you have shown is indeed worrying.

15 deaths in one year in Manchester's canals should be a reason for an inquest. Something is seriously wrong. As these deaths now include Bristol, it surely cannot be a coincidence.

What does throwing innocent unbeknownst people into a canal prove? Only psychopathy can be the reason. Did the perpetrator/s move from Manchester to Bristol?

The multiple deaths (suicides?) amongst the youth in Bridgend (South Wales last decade needs to be looked into, to see if there is a connection.

The Manchester/Bristol drownings are definitely an oddity. I did post back in November last year about that here: UK - UK - Bristol & Surrounding Areas, multiple missing people reported after a night out, worrying trend. and I looked at my post recently and realised I'd actually left out 1-2 more victims.

It’s mentioned in this article


Ah yes. So I didn't realise that was the time, but yes that's the CCTV footage that was later found to not be Jack, so the media stopped publishing it and it got forgotten about. For some reason I thought it was earlier than 5.40, my bad.
 
  • #606
Ah yes. So I didn't realise that was the time, but yes that's the CCTV footage that was later found to not be Jack, so the media stopped publishing it and it got forgotten about. For some reason I thought it was earlier than 5.40, my bad.
No worries, the time just stuck out to me with it being the same time as the last phone stuff. I do hope we have a breakthrough soon, I don’t think he went in the water (even though from reading WS a lot it feels like that’s the answer to every missing young man on a night out!) but it’s hard to fathom all the walking in circles and then just vanishing.
 
  • #607
No worries, the time just stuck out to me with it being the same time as the last phone stuff. I do hope we have a breakthrough soon, I don’t think he went in the water (even though from reading WS a lot it feels like that’s the answer to every missing young man on a night out!) but it’s hard to fathom all the walking in circles and then just vanishing.
I agree. You probably read it a few pages back but I traced Jack's route based on everything we publicly know and it seems inconceivable that Jack would walk around the water, manage to avoid falling in despite walking over bridges multiple times during the route.

After some careful consideration, I looked at which parts of the walk would raise concerns for being the most 'dangerous' spots which could make for a trip/slip/fall into water. And walking past merchants rd for example... if you were going to fall in somewhere, that road would be in my top 2-3 places to fall in...but he didn't. Not only that, but he navigated (potentially drunk/tipsy and after a bang on the head) around the whole of the Cumberland Basin. We know this. CCTV proves it. The final CCTV capture shows him walking away from water.

So when you consider all of that, it just seems implausible that he could end up in the water. There were so, so many opportunities and risks on that walk, that the probability of ending up in water after navigating around it seem slim to none.

But the sad thing is, we can't even rule it out. It's possible (as I alluded to in previous posts) that Jack somehow evaded anymore CCTV and ended up in the Basin, but based on what we know, the theory seems weak and makes no sense. Why navigate around it for a long period of time, walk away from it....only to go back towards it and fall in? I can't grasp that.

The phone (for me) is the key to this entire thing. The phone received messages and was on the network until the early hours of the morning, even providing Jack's mother with the GPS location. A phone would likely struggle to do that in shallow water. In deep water, no, I doubt it.

GPS signals penetrate water very poorly because they're radio waves in the L-band frequency (around 1.5 GHz). Water absorbs these signals rapidly, so a signal will significantly degrade or be blocked. You're looking at depths of 30-60cm of water to completely block a GPS signal.

Moreover, the water in the Cumberland Basin contains salt water (tidal water from the River Avon). Salt water is more effective blocking GPS signals than fresh water is (due to salt water being more conductive, and GPS wont penetrate through conductive materials).

So if Jack's phone was continuing to receive messages (and we're told it was), then this means the phone was highly unlikely to be under water. Jack was heard saying "hello" in the early hours on his phone, so he had possession of it.. for me, it all points to the phone (and by extension, Jack) being on land. The phone losing turning off on the network was likely due to the battery running low.

My objective opinion mixed with some facts about how water affects GPS signals.
 

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