UK UK- Janet Brown, 51, research nurse, found nude, gagged, handcuffed & bludgeoned to death, @ home, Buckinghamshire,10 April '95, *DNA, new initiative*

[Cedars]

As previously discussed, familial tracing is not legal in the UK...People have not consented to their DNA being used by police when they provided their samples to genealogy databases.

Just returning to comment on this, having listened to a detailed podcast about it, in Canada: there are two databases, GEDmatch and Family Tree, which provide users, when they sign up, the option to allow their own DNA to be used for police investigations, and that's what the perp DNA is initially compared with.

After some geneological research, investigators may contact an individual via a database, to ask them if they are willing to give consent for access to their own DNA to focus or confirm the narrowing of the search, and people usually say yes. But the research is also based on, eg location, to find someone who would have been in a location at the time of the crime.

IMO it is a miraculous investigative tool, no more sinister than CCTV cameras - which people also objected to when they first were widely installed, fearing they were a violation of personal privacy. Yet without them, so many recent crimes would be insolved.

JMO

 

[TheRockingRev]

A mystery is why Janet didn't hear the glass break and sound the alarm, or dial 999. Of course, it was a big house and Janet might have been in the shower, using a hairdryer or something. Possibly, if someone hears glass breaking, he or she might be reluctant to sound the alarm or dial 999 without investigating, in case it was an animal or the glass spontaneously breaking for some reason.

This is the mystery for me. Breaking this type of glass is not a quick, nor quiet. Even if she had been using an appliance or was in the shower I don't think it would've been long enough to not hear the intruder. I think the sheer noise would've meant that she would have know it was something out of the ordinary.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

It is said that the killer cut a "man size" hole in the outer pane, but smashed the inner pane. A pocket glass cutter only scores the glass and you have to push out the piece around which you have scored. Also, a man size piece would surely be too big to remove intact.

Photos of the patio door, showing the damage, do not show a large piece of glass intact on the ground and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to remove such a large piece of glass, intact, from the scored side and place it on the ground, especially for one person. That outer pane was probably shattered, as well as the inner pane. Did Janet hear this commotion and enter the room on the other side of the glass door? Or, was she coming down the stairs (to investigate) as the killer was going upstairs, or heading towards her?

 

[Sescsteve]

It is said that the killer cut a "man size" hole in the outer pane, but smashed the inner pane. A pocket glass cutter only scores the glass and you have to push out the piece around which you have scored. Also, a man size piece would surely be too big to remove intact.

Photos of the patio door, showing the damage, do not show a large piece of glass intact on the ground and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to remove such a large piece of glass, intact, from the scored side and place it on the ground, especially for one person. That outer pane was probably shattered, as well as the inner pane. Did Janet hear this commotion and enter the room on the other side of the glass door? Or, was she coming down the stairs (to investigate) as the killer was going upstairs, or heading towards her?

When glass breaks it omits a high pitch and even now there is alarms used in house that go off if the pitch it that high like glass breaking . It does seem strange they she may not of heard the breaking of glass. I am a Window installer and when I was younger trained as a glazier and even now when glass breaks on a job it scares most people lol. Also sorry to sound geeky but as is said before when you cut glass you score it on the front for instance and you have to break the cut from the other side so certainly not easy especially in a double glazed unit and most probable 6mm glass. Shows inexperience to me . Glass breaking makes a right noise and certainly if Janet heard this may of even froze her not quite knowing what to do . I am starting to form the opinion that maybe Janet knew her killer and possibly even let him in and it all went wrong and he panicked and then he decided to cover his tracks by making out it was a burglary .

 

[HollyHunter9]

When glass breaks it omits a high pitch and even now there is alarms used in house that go off if the pitch it that high like glass breaking . It does seem strange they she may not of heard the breaking of glass. I am a Window installer and when I was younger trained as a glazier and even now when glass breaks on a job it scares most people lol. Also sorry to sound geeky but as is said before when you cut glass you score it on the front for instance and you have to break the cut from the other side so certainly not easy especially in a double glazed unit and most probable 6mm glass. Shows inexperience to me . Glass breaking makes a right noise and certainly if Janet heard this may of even froze her not quite knowing what to do . I am starting to form the opinion that maybe Janet knew her killer and possibly even let him in and it all went wrong and he panicked and then he decided to cover his tracks by making out it was a burglary .

Do you know how loud it would be to cut glass if the killer put heavy duty tape on the glass first and then cut through that? Would it muffle the sound? That's what the crimewatch video showed the killer doing so I'm wondering if this is why she didn't hear them cutting the glass and it would possibly also indicate someone with knowledge of glass cutting the average person would not know about ?

 

[tes1984]

When glass breaks it omits a high pitch and even now there is alarms used in house that go off if the pitch it that high like glass breaking . It does seem strange they she may not of heard the breaking of glass. I am a Window installer and when I was younger trained as a glazier and even now when glass breaks on a job it scares most people lol. Also sorry to sound geeky but as is said before when you cut glass you score it on the front for instance and you have to break the cut from the other side so certainly not easy especially in a double glazed unit and most probable 6mm glass. Shows inexperience to me . Glass breaking makes a right noise and certainly if Janet heard this may of even froze her not quite knowing what to do . I am starting to form the opinion that maybe Janet knew her killer and possibly even let him in and it all went wrong and he panicked and then he decided to cover his tracks by making out it was a burglary .

Welcome to the boards and nice to hear from a trained glazier.

How long do you think this guy spent trying to (unsuccessfully) cut the glass.. could he have done it all in a few minutes, or was he there for a lot longer?

Could it have been some kind of double bluff from someone who actually knew what they were doing? Why does he have a glass cutter with him, or in his car? Most burglars just use a crowbar.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

"maybe Janet knew her killer and possibly even let him in and it all went wrong and he panicked and then he decided to cover his tracks by making out it was a burglary"

However, he brought with him a glass cutter and special tape for taping glass, so whatever he did was probably always his intention. Also, if he did this afterwards, he was delaying his escape. And he didn't take anything.

 

[tes1984]

However, he brought with him a glass cutter and special tape for taping glass, so whatever he did was probably always his intention. Also, if he did this afterwards, he was delaying his escape. And he didn't take anything.

He unplugged the TV and VCR, but didn't take them. He prowled around the house, butndidn't really ransack or open drawers. He clearly encountered Janet's jewellery, but didn't steal any of it, even though carrying jewellery wouldn't have slowed him down at all on foot.

He was a very strange offender. He seems to have done quite a few things without much sense of urgency.

If he takes a shower, then is that because he has blood on him? Or is he staging the scene, complete with the dropped men's dressing gown to suggest Janet had a lover? Or is he taking ownership of the property, wandering around and making himself at home?

 

[tes1984]

Re watching the Crimewatch update, it seems that:

Janet's husband was planning to return home for the Easter weekend.

Janet wore her own clothes to work and didn't wear a lot of jewellery (Crimewatch reconstructions aren't always accurate regarding clothing though).

Roxanne was a student, but that Monday was already on her Easter holidays.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Roxanne would have been able to tell the police if her mother had recently been behaving differently, been distracted or upset. No doubt the police questioned Roxanne closely and also questioned Janet's colleagues, but we will never know what they gleaned.

If Janet's work, or her spending time in Oxford (shopping after work etc), had something to do with her murder, things would be greatly complicated. Not many people live in Radnage. A lot live around Oxford.

Why this idea of a robbery gone wrong when, to us, there are no indications that it was a robbery? I wonder what the police know that we don't. Perhaps there are tactical or PR reasons for police to talk about a robbery.

 

[tes1984]

Why this idea of a robbery gone wrong when, to us, there are no indications that it was a robbery? I wonder what the police know that we don't. Perhaps there are tactical or PR reasons for police to talk about a robbery.

This offender certainly doesn't act like a burglar. A burglar enters the property when it's empty, spends as little time as possible in the house as possible, leaves immediately once he triggers an alarm, doesn't try to break into the house in such a slow way, doesn't choose an access point where he may end up concerned, doesn't leave behind jewellery, ransacks the bedroom and study for valuables etc etc.

Perhaps it makes a bit more sense if the original motive was accessing a safe, like with Carolanne Jackson a couple of years later. Or even a hostage style situation where Roxanne is kept bound and Janet goes to the bank in the morning to get the ransom?

 

[Sescsteve]

Do you know how loud it would be to cut glass if the killer put heavy duty tape on the glass first and then cut through that? Would it muffle the sound? That's what the crimewatch video showed the killer doing so I'm wondering if this is why she didn't hear them cutting the glass and it would possibly also indicate someone with knowledge of glass cutting the average person would not know about ?

Cutting glass has a scratching sound but can be quite noisy depending what the acoustics are like around. I wouldn't of thought Janet could hear from upstairs but of course when the glass got broken this would have most probably been heard again depending on what Janet was doing i.e Hairdryer going etc . The Heavy duty tape puzzles me as it is say 40mm wide and even putting this on the window is strange as to be able to cut glass you really need a cleanish surface and a glass cutter is not sharp per se it is a wheel the scores the glass and going over tape would be extremely problematic . I have never tried it but there is no reason to do this . Only thing we do sometimes with Toughened units if shattered is to put a sticky roll of plastic over the unit to stop the smaller pieces of glass go everywhere .

 

[forensicswannabe]

Unsolved murder of nurse set to feature on BBC Crimewatch seems her case will be featured again on crimewatch next month

 

[Sescsteve]

Welcome to the boards and nice to hear from a trained glazier.

How long do you think this guy spent trying to (unsuccessfully) cut the glass.. could he have done it all in a few minutes, or was he there for a lot longer?

Could it have been some kind of double bluff from someone who actually knew what they were doing? Why does he have a glass cutter with him, or in his car? Most burglars just use a crowbar.

To cut the man size hole would take literally a minute with skill but again if it was 6mm glass to try to get that out would be virtually impossible as the score would have to broken from the back . Now with the aid of a glass sucker you could possibly break the score but to pull that size out would be virtually no chance . Hence why he decided to smash his way in I suppose .

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Unsolved murder of nurse set to feature on BBC Crimewatch seems her case will be featured again on crimewatch next month

Thanks. I hope that the police can provide more information from what they discovered at the time and what they have learnt since then. Time is running out. They might be able to tell us more on the basis that they don't have much to lose.

 

[tes1984]

To cut the man size hole would take literally a minute with skill but again if it was 6mm glass to try to get that out would be virtually impossible as the score would have to broken from the back . Now with the aid of a glass sucker you could possibly break the score but to pull that size out would be virtually no chance . Hence why he decided to smash his way in I suppose .

There's been some debate about whether the glass was smashed inwards or outwards, and whether this took place before or after the murder...

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Sescsteve,

What do you think was the purpose of the tape?

Thanks.

 

[HollyHunter9]

Cutting glass has a scratching sound but can be quite noisy depending what the acoustics are like around. I wouldn't of thought Janet could hear from upstairs but of course when the glass got broken this would have most probably been heard again depending on what Janet was doing i.e Hairdryer going etc . The Heavy duty tape puzzles me as it is say 40mm wide and even putting this on the window is strange as to be able to cut glass you really need a cleanish surface and a glass cutter is not sharp per se it is a wheel the scores the glass and going over tape would be extremely problematic . I have never tried it but there is no reason to do this . Only thing we do sometimes with Toughened units if shattered is to put a sticky roll of plastic over the unit to stop the smaller pieces of glass go everywhere .

Thankyou for this info. I always assumed that cutting glass would be a long, noisy task and the perpetrator got fed up and smashed their way in instead. The tape assumed was to help muffle the sound but now you say that glass needs to be clean to cut, it makes even less sense! Unless the tape was just used to gag janet?

So many parts of this crime make little to no sense, then when you put everything together as a whole it makes even less sense! I started to wonder if this was just a totally random attack but I Remember they took glass cutter, tape and hand cuffs with them so it clearly was pre-planned.

 

[tes1984]

The perp had two different rolls of tape with him. One was masking tape and the other was a less common all weather tape, usually used for repairing greenhouses.

There's a possibility that the handcuffs were already in the house. Janet's husband said he thought he recalled seeing them years earlier.

Janet's legs were bound with the masking tape, which was then cut, so I wonder what he used to cut the tape.

 

[Cedars]

There's a possibility that the handcuffs were already in the house. Janet's husband said he thought he recalled seeing them years earlier.

IMO, if they weren't lying in a prominent position such as the hall table, where the husband would have seen them the last time he was there, how would a home invader know about them, look for them, or find them?

I find it a strange comment by the husband. Was he suggesting his wife got out the handcuffs to play master/slave with someone, when he wasn't home?