UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[Novosti]

But those are all post hoc rationalisations which go from the fact that he got away for a significant period to the conclusion that it must have been professional. If you look at it element-by-element it doesn't stack up. Noone would have sat in an ops room and planned to do it at a house she rarely and randomly visited, and with easy views to the street; in broad daylight; involving physical touching; with a substandard unique weapon and ammunition; in distinctive clothing; and with a muddled and slow pedestrian exit (as per witnesses). None of these choices could realistically have been arrived at by considered planning, and comparison of options.

Just to add on the single shot point, I think this a bit unclear as an indicator. Generally where special forces or experienced paramilitaries have conducted an assassination, the MO involves multiple shots - for the obvious reason that it makes the intended result more likely (people surviving single head shots happens). And that's obviously easier with the automatic or semi-automatic weapons that those attackers would typically use. On the other hand a single shot is obviously lower profile.

In other ways, single shots are more typical of untrained or inexperienced shooters - either because they don't have access to automatic weapons, are unable to perform the reloading properly on the spot, or are unaware of the chances of non-lethal outcomes with a single shot.

 

[Inspector Evans]

The weapon, the ammunition, the physical touching / range, the choice of time of day, the choice of location, exit without transport, lack of facial disguise, distinctive clothing. Very few elements were consistent with military or paramilitary training, or even criminal experience.

Completely different case but Alan Decabral was shot dead just over 25 years ago in the middle of the day when he was sat in his car in a Kent retail park.

Alan P Decabral - Unsolved Murder 2000 - Warren Retail Park, Ashford, Kent - Alan P Decabral Unsolved Mysteries UK

Alan Decabral was shot while sat in his son’s car in the car park of Halfords in Ashford, Kent on 15 October 2000.

www.unsolved-murders.co.uk

I think we know who ordered that killing but again very public space with surely plenty of people going about their daily business close by.

Guess if you do a killing like that quickly enough it won't register with plenty of people engaged in their own mind as you don't expect to see a public execution walking out of the front door in the morning.

 

[Novosti]

Completely different case but Alan Decabral was shot dead just over 25 years ago in the middle of the day when he was sat in his car in a Kent retail park.

Alan P Decabral - Unsolved Murder 2000 - Warren Retail Park, Ashford, Kent - Alan P Decabral Unsolved Mysteries UK

Alan Decabral was shot while sat in his son’s car in the car park of Halfords in Ashford, Kent on 15 October 2000.

www.unsolved-murders.co.uk

I think we know who ordered that killing but again very public space with surely plenty of people going about their daily business close by.

Guess if you do a killing like that quickly enough it won't register with plenty of people engaged in their own mind as you don't expect to see a public execution walking out of the front door in the morning.

UK gangland killings are often pretty unprofessional and chaotic. Two other examples would be the killings of Kevin Carroll and Olivia Pratt-Korbel. Often all the one who orders it values is the willingness of another lower-ranked criminal to carry it out. Access to weapons is often ad hoc and opportunistic. And the assassins would usually only have handled firearms once or a handful of times in their life.

So this kind of MO is much more consistent with the murder of Jill Dando than one done by anyone with firearms and operations training. But it raises different questions - OCGs normally strike their rivals, or former members that betray them etc. - a BBC journalist is an extraordinary stretch.

 

[forensicswannabe]

Whoever did the killing I don't think we will ever actually find out who or the why because I don't see anyone confessing and that's the only way I can see this being solved now almost 30 years down the line.

 

[Inspector Evans]

UK gangland killings are often pretty unprofessional and chaotic. Two other examples would be the killings of Kevin Carroll and Olivia Pratt-Korbel. Often all the one who orders it values is the willingness of another lower-ranked criminal to carry it out. Access to weapons is often ad hoc and opportunistic. And the assassins would usually only have handled firearms once or a handful of times in their life.

So this kind of MO is much more consistent with the murder of Jill Dando than one done by anyone with firearms and operations training. But it raises different questions - OCGs normally strike their rivals, or former members that betray them etc. - a BBC journalist is an extraordinary stretch.

Oh yes I've never thought there was any Crimewatch link with JD whatsoever so wasn't mentioning it for that point. More these type of shootings don't always take place in the dead of night in an isolated alleyway or field. Plenty still occur in daylight in public places for reasons you state.

I still believe someone badly wanted her dead or at least not around for the forthcoming changes in her life and that Monday there were boots on the ground to make it happen. Rather than a random person walking around looking to shoot someone and they spotted Jill Dando across the street.

It was slightly more planned than that I suspect.

 

[Novosti]

Oh yes I've never thought there was any Crimewatch link with JD whatsoever so wasn't mentioning it for that point. More these type of shootings don't always take place in the dead of night in an isolated alleyway or field. Plenty still occur in daylight in public places for reasons you state.

I still believe someone badly wanted her dead or at least not around for the forthcoming changes in her life and that Monday there were boots on the ground to make it happen. Rather than a random person walking around looking to shoot someone and they spotted Jill Dando across the street.

It was slightly more planned than that I suspect.

So I agree that the MO is plausible. But the idea of a gangland killing doesn't have any other supporting evidence.

With George, we had at least four main categories of evidence against him. The firearms particle. At least four witness sightings of him at the location that morning (admittedly of varying certainty and reliability). Lies and false alibis relating to his movements that day. And character and behaviour evidence (supplemented by post trial knowledge of his offending record).

My personal view is that the sum total of that evidence isn't enough for a safe conviction. But it amounts to a pretty convincing case that it would not be a good use of police resources to seriously look for anyone else. That is just the way the justice system works sometimes - rightly.

 

[Inspector Evans]

So I agree that the MO is plausible. But the idea of a gangland killing doesn't have any other supporting evidence.

With George, we had at least four main categories of evidence against him. The firearms particle. At least four witness sightings of him at the location that morning (admittedly of varying certainty and reliability). Lies and false alibis relating to his movements that day. And character and behaviour evidence (supplemented by post trial knowledge of his offending record).

My personal view is that the sum total of that evidence isn't enough for a safe conviction. But it amounts to a pretty convincing case that it would not be a good use of police resources to seriously look for anyone else. That is just the way the justice system works sometimes - rightly.

I am of the line of thinking Barry George could've certainly been in the area that day, indeed it is pretty much confirmed as he turned up at HAFAD centre at some point that afternoon. Exact time undetermined which is frustrating.

Does anyone know where in Fulham HAFAD were based in 1999 as their current premises are Mo Mowlam House which is a new build close to Earls Court so a reasonable distance to Gowan Avenue now.

However I am less convinced he could've timed everything to perfection, shot JD, got away without making a big scene and being ID'd on the spot and then pretty much putting his head down for a year in relation to the case.

Within hours on that day he was demanding an alibi at HAFAD and then making a scene at a taxi office so shows what a pest he could be on a daily basis.

Or if it really was him maybe the enormity of what he had done did hit him later that evening when watching news channels and so that changed his general mentality a little.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Does anyone know where in Fulham HAFAD were based in 1999 as their current premises are Mo Mowlam House which is a new build close to Earls Court so a reasonable distance to Gowan Avenue now.

Greswell Street, Fulham.

 

[Novosti]

Does anyone know where in Fulham HAFAD were based in 1999 as their current premises are Mo Mowlam House which is a new build close to Earls Court so a reasonable distance to Gowan Avenue now.

Greswell Street, Fulham.

So roughly 10 mins walk.

 

[CSIAngus]

We're going backwards on this debate. BG was a chaotic individual, with much in his past that was abhorrent, but who had no capacity or capability to carry out this hit and get away with it for a year. It's not him. We need to move on. The court has said move on from BG. What next? Those who still think BG did it should form their own thread.

 

[Novosti]

We're going backwards on this debate. BG was a chaotic individual, with much in his past that was abhorrent, but who had no capacity or capability to carry out this hit and get away with it for a year. It's not him. We need to move on. The court has said move on from BG. What next? Those who still think BG did it should form their own thread.

That's not how the justice system works I'm afraid. A high standard is rightly set for conviction. But where an acquittal occurs it absolutely doesn't imply that the police should start looking for a different offender.

 

[forensicswannabe]

We're going backwards on this debate. BG was a chaotic individual, with much in his past that was abhorrent, but who had no capacity or capability to carry out this hit and get away with it for a year. It's not him. We need to move on. The court has said move on from BG. What next? Those who still think BG did it should form their own thread.

You can't 100% rule out BG as a suspect like I can't say 100% it was him but he was suspicious and still is and until we actually have a suspect who we 100% know did it BG will always remain a suspect in most peoples eyes.

 

[RichardKimble]

Did/as any new evidence emerged that undermines the case against BG.


A miscarriage of justice occurred when a new fact "so undermined" prosecution evidence that no conviction could "possibly be based upon it," he said.
The new "test" would not guarantee that all those entitled to compensation were "in fact innocent".

Barry George in compensation case

Barry George, who spent eight years in prison after being wrongly convicted of the murder of BBC TV presenter Jill Dando, can fight a test case for compensation, a judge rules.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[rvlvr]

I’ve always found it interesting what bits of evidence people choose to focus on and disregard in this case.

No one who doubts George’s involvement in this crime denies his criminal record, for instance. On the contrary, his history of committing sexual offences and his propensity for getting caught make him, imo, a very unlikely doorstep executioner.

Whereas, the case against George is still routinely made using the same discredited evidence. Eg, there’s no evidence the particle found in George’s coat came from a gun he’d fired, never mind that it came from the round that killed Jill Dando. All we can say is that the particle, consisting of aluminium, lead and barium, had a similar chemical make-up to particles found in Jill’s hair and on her clothing. But these particles weren’t unique - two consisted of lead, antimony and barium; one was aluminium and barium; another, aluminium, lead and barium - or even uncommon.

We also know the coat was improperly handled and other potential evidence taken from the scene was improperly stored. And while it was right the particle evidence was eventually ‘neutralised’, because of that the issue of a possible second particle found on the back of George’s coat, which could surely only have got there as a result of contamination, was - AFAIK - sadly never explored at the re-trial.

R

UK Post in thread 'UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999'

Dec 7, 2025

The other thing worth noting is that a second particle was later found on the back of George’s coat. Typically, such particles won’t remain on the outside of clothing for more than around 10 hours - but the coat wasn’t seized until 11 months after the murder, so how on earth did it get there? Probably the same way the first particle did - contamination.

George condemned by speck of dust

Barry George was wrongly convicted of Jill Dando's murder on the flawed evidence of a tiny speck of dust.

www.mirror.co.uk

Further weight is given to this theory by the fact that, after a review, it was revealed that “104 boxes of possessions and papers removed from George's...

• rvlvr

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• 

When you can just say, ‘but the particle!’ though, none of this hugely important context matters.

 

[rvlvr]

Likewise, the unreliability of the witnesses is never reckoned with. In fact, unreliable is something of an understatement - I’d go so far as to say some of these witnesses were clearly corrupted by police. One had an affair with a detective working on the case!

R

UK Post in thread 'UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999'

Aug 7, 2025

Re BG being seen that morning, the sighting I’ve always thought was most likely to be BG is the one made by the postman. I can well imagine him wandering the streets of Fulham, walking by JD’s house (he clearly would’ve known where she lived, imo), and upon seeing the postman approach the door lingering to see if she opened it.

I’ve recently been reading Michelle Diskin’s book about the case. Obviously as Barry George’s sister there’s a particular slant but there are lots of interesting tidbits regarding the evidence, in particular the witness sightings and especially the sighting...

• rvlvr

• 
• 
• 

In any case, only one witness positively identified George as being in Gowan Avenue that morning - Susan Mayes. To quote again from BC’s book (page 260):

The man [Mayes] saw was standing on the far side of a burgundy-coloured car parked in the middle of the road outside number 28, the house opposite Dando's. The man looked first at the houses on the even-number side and then across the road at the odd numbers, but when he saw Mayes approaching he turned his gaze towards the ground and as she walked by he kept his head down and wiped the passenger side of the windscreen, possibly with his hand, in what she thought was a furtive manner. She assumed at the time that the car was his and that it was a minicab. She described the man as mid to late thirties, 5ft 9in tall, slightly overweight and Mediterranean - that is to say, with dark hair and slightly olive skin. He wore a black suit with a white shirt open at the neck.

I see Occam’s razor got a mention the other day, so let’s apply it here. Given that other witnesses said the car wasn’t there shortly after Mayes’s sighting, and that no one in the street came forward to say the car was theirs, and given that Barry George couldn’t drive, isn’t it likely the man she saw and initially assumed to be a taxi driver was, indeed, a taxi driver? That’s clearly the simplest explanation here. Without this sighting, though, there’s nothing to place George anywhere near the scene. So the more convoluted version is preferred instead.

 

[rvlvr]

I also take issue with the idea there’s nothing worth investigating now. Police always spin the yarn about having left no stone unturned and how they’re not looking for anyone else whenever a case doesn’t go their way. But in this case we know the investigation was far from exhaustive. Did Man X kill Jill Dando? Probably not - but police never traced and eliminated him. Until they do, we’ll never know. Who else didn’t they eliminate? Shortly before George appeared on their radar Detective Campbell was lamenting the various witnesses (and possible suspects?) they’d yet to trace. I suspect little to no work was done on this front once they’d homed in on Barry George.

And it’s almost certain that James Shackleton was not ‘the running man’ - what an extraordinary coincidence it would’ve been if this man with a history of inserting himself into police investigations had just so happened to have been ‘running for his life’ along the Fulham Palace Road minutes after Jill Dando’s murder! So, who was this individual?

 

[Kasparthecat1]

And it’s almost certain that James Shackleton was not ‘the running man’ - what an extraordinary coincidence it would’ve been if this man with a history of inserting himself into police investigations had just so happened to have been ‘running for his life’ along the Fulham Palace Road minutes after Jill Dando’s murder! So, who was this individual?

He's definitely a strange one! According to a source I read (DJ Smith I believe) Shackleton was driving his hearse around the area on that morning - but there was no cctv evidence of this, according to LE. And whilst there were "running men" seen in the area afaik none of them were observed as being particularly tall - Shackleton was 6'4". I think he ruled himself out/was ruled out by LE of being "sweating man at bus stop"? (I don't think it was ever established who "sweating man" was, although his photofit was issued (due to media pressure perhaps?).


https://websleuths.com/threads/uk-jill-dando-37-fulham-london-26-apr-1999.164880/

 

[Novosti]

I also take issue with the idea there’s nothing worth investigating now. Police always spin the yarn about having left no stone unturned and how they’re not looking for anyone else whenever a case doesn’t go their way. But in this case we know the investigation was far from exhaustive. Did Man X kill Jill Dando? Probably not - but police never traced and eliminated him. Until they do, we’ll never know. Who else didn’t they eliminate? Shortly before George appeared on their radar Detective Campbell was lamenting the various witnesses (and possible suspects?) they’d yet to trace. I suspect little to no work was done on this front once they’d homed in on Barry George.

And it’s almost certain that James Shackleton was not ‘the running man’ - what an extraordinary coincidence it would’ve been if this man with a history of inserting himself into police investigations had just so happened to have been ‘running for his life’ along the Fulham Palace Road minutes after Jill Dando’s murder! So, who was this individual?

The principle of considering other suspects is obviously right - if evidence comes to light that merits it. And we know the 2012/13 review considered or reconsidered around 2000 potential suspects - all of which led nowhere.

It's difficult to take the media seriously on this issue. The idea that Milorad Ulemek did it personally, flying in and out without the Foreign Office and other authorities even noticing, is particularly amusing! What next : Ratko Mladić pulled the trigger while Radovan Karadžić was the getaway driver?

 

[rvlvr]

No one on this thread is suggesting he did it, so your facetiousness falls flat I’m afraid.

You can’t be ruled out if police don’t know who you are - they don’t know who the running/sweating/tube station CCTV man/men are. It’s quite a significant gap in the case, to put it mildly.

 

[rvlvr]

And it’s almost certain that James Shackleton was not ‘the running man’ - what an extraordinary coincidence it would’ve been if this man with a history of inserting himself into police investigations had just so happened to have been ‘running for his life’ along the Fulham Palace Road minutes after Jill Dando’s murder! So, who was this individual?

He's definitely a strange one! According to a source I read (DJ Smith I believe) Shackleton was driving his hearse around the area on that morning - but there was no cctv evidence of this, according to LE. And whilst there were "running men" seen in the area afaik none of them were observed as being particularly tall - Shackleton was 6'4". I think he ruled himself out/was ruled out by LE of being "sweating man at bus stop"? (I don't think it was ever established who "sweating man" was, although his photofit was issued (due to media pressure perhaps?).


UK - UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

I think it’s often what police *don’t* say that gives the game away - if they’d identified the running/sweating man/men they’d have no reason not to say so.

Also, nine months after the murder police apparently removed a traffic light post which a witness claimed he’d seen running man grab as he lost his balance. But the business with JS occurred around a month after Jill was killed. If you believed JS was running man, why would you be looking for running man’s prints many, many months later?

Mystery surrounds fingerprints where man sprinted from Jill Dando murder scene

The person behind them has never been found

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

I’d suggest it’s because they haven’t the faintest clue who this guy was.