GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #1

[squid]

The purchase of cider changes everything, in my opinion. Funny that the police decided to mention it today. I had been convinced that the boyfriend was the culprit up until that point. Now it makes a lot less sense. Why would she buy alcohol for her and her boyfriend if he was planning to drive to Sheffield?
x

Below article states that police indicate she had bought a small bottle of cider.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-to-buy-alcohol-on-night-she-disappeared.html

 

[songline]

I wonder if the place she lived in is like apartment buildings here where they have trash disposal on every floor. Is it possible she ate the pizza and when she went to drop the box down the disposal, someone abducted her? That would explain the missing box and the fact that she left her purse etc. in the flat. I agree it's more likely she ate it with a neighbour though & if that's the case, then it won't be long before they identify who.

I agree I was thinking the same thing....because I have had those pies from Express in England (very good) and they come large enough for one person unless otherwise requested.

 

[wfgodot]

depending which news site you go to some are saying was dumped there several days before being found.
others are saying she was killed several days before and was not there on the 19th per witnessess.
Not sure about the boyfriend he looked pretty genuinely upset at the press conference when they where still looking for her.

Yeah, I too was considering probable that she'd only just been placed on the verge, but, while I've read general reports stating that those in the area feel they would have seen Jo's body if it had been there several days, I remember no one specifically being quoted as saying such.

Could a preliminary autopsy, I wonder, tell police enough about the circumstances to lead them to conclude it had been there for days? In other seasons I'm sure that it could, based on larvae growth, etc.; but in Winter, with a frozen body, would this also be the case?

If not, then the police must have other hard and specific evidence, I think, to feel as they do.

 

[kemo]

It seems to be that some "key" information is being withheld. The parents said: "We know what she does and doesn't do. We were 100 per cent convinced within 30 minutes of arriving at the flat that she had been abducted." .... "We knew what the flat was like. We know what it's normally like." Also, the boyfriend was very quick to call the police. Apparently he called just after midnight. You would have to be pretty certain that "something" was VERY wrong to call that late.

There is always the chance the boyfriend is involved but I tend to doubt it. Men do kill their intimate partners but usually in "the heat of passion". Where it is planned out with staging and a "solid" alibi, there is a lot of money, child custody or other issues involved. When a guy wants free from his girlfriend, they are plenty of ways to get it done without risking life in prison. Staging usually points in a clear direction, i.e. it is an attempt to "tell a (false) story" of the crime. The "Burglary gone bad" is traditional when men kill their wives but there can be others. Staging that paints a confusing or ambiguous pictures defeats the whole purpose.

The purchase of the cider is an interesting development. From my time in the UK, I got the impression that cider was basically a "woman's" drink and it would be more appropriate for a woman alone to drink with her "take out" pizza than appropriate libations for a tryst. (Someone tell me if I am wrong).

If this was a stranger doing a "door push", it would have been someone who had "done his homework" and not just someone who followed her home. He would have had to be sure she was alone (I would guess very few young women could to afford to live alone in such an expensive neighborhood). Could he have been someone that they knew or a neighbor who saw the BF leave with a suitcase?

Apparently they had a private entrance to their flat. What is not clear is whether it opened to a discrete spot where a car could be parked and someone could be taken to that car against their will without being noticed. At 9:00 PM, I can't see someone taking someone at Knifepoint (or carrying a dead body) to a car parked on the street.

Usually, when a woman is abducted and the body is "dumped", the Perp had taken the victim, by car, to a site where the Perp feels "comfortable" to perform whatever sexual assault was planned. This site would have a means to move the victim between the site and a car without being seen.

My WAG (wild guess) is that this is someone who either knew her slightly or "noticed" her and took some time to know her comings and goings. He did not decide to "make his move" until he knew that the BF would be away. He was probably waiting in a car for her and gained entrance either by a "door push" or some pretence. He took her to his (unattached) home somewhere in the suburbs to the west. He probably lived alone. He apparently liked pizza.
.

 

[watchful_eye]

This is SUCH a sad case. My heart goes out to Jo, her family, and her boyfriend as well. I am the same age as Joanna. Such a tragedy.

I don't think the boyfriend has anything to do with it. Not just because he was out of town, either.

I also think it is possible that she bought the pizza and cider just for her. She could have certainly saved the rest of the cider for another day, same with the pizza.

It is possible she was being followed/stalked and the perp waited for her to get to the door and forced himself and her into the flat behind her.

However, if there is evidence that she was in the flat for a period of time by herself before the abduction (oven left on, lights on, etc.), then maybe the perp was already in the flat (hiding, having had some sort of easy access), or rang the bell, and she answered and he forced his way in. Plenty of people still answer the door without looking OR without fear of the stranger at the door.

As for the missing pizza---which is a great piece of evidence for LE to have picked up on, it does confuse things---HOWEVER--it does RULE OUT the 2 theories I listed above.

I don't think she would have left the flat to share the pizza with someone, without taking her coat or purse---even if it is next door. It was very cold out and most people need their keys or cell when they leave the house.

I also think that if she was having a guest--who would be the killer-- over for pizza, and the cider we now know about, that that person must have felt that his/her bite marks or fingerprints on the pizza and box would be incriminating. Why else would that pizza be gone? And on THAT note:

Where is the cider?

Therefore, that missing pizza seems to suggest that someone was over at her flat on purpose, invited, and participated in eating or touching that pizza. Did she have a lover? I don't think so. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. It also could have been a male friend who had an obsession, and it was the old, "If I can't have you, no one will." Or, an old flame, trying to make amends, and she invites him in, or had scheduled to talk with him, and he gets his revenge. I am sure LE is looking into her past relationships and if they were stormy.

Also, I feel that the killer could be a man OR a woman---at this point. Until we hear of sexual assault evidence, it could be a woman that did this. Maybe she had a female friend over that was jealous or wanted her boyfriend? I'm considering this because if she had invited someone over, it could have very well been a female friend.

Whatever happened, I hope LE finds out---this girl and her family deserve justice.

 

[watchful_eye]

Kemo---your post is very well put.

It seems to be that some "key" information is being withheld. The parents said: "We know what she does and doesn't do. We were 100 per cent convinced within 30 minutes of arriving at the flat that she had been abducted." .... "We knew what the flat was like. We know what it's normally like." Also, the boyfriend was very quick to call the police. Apparently he called just after midnight. You would have to be pretty certain that "something" was VERY wrong to call that late.

There is always the chance the boyfriend is involved but I tend to doubt it. Men do kill their intimate partners but usually in "the heat of passion". Where it is planned out with staging and a "solid" alibi, there is a lot of money, child custody or other issues involved. When a guy wants free from his girlfriend, they are plenty of ways to get it done without risking life in prison. Staging usually points in a clear direction, i.e. it is an attempt to "tell a (false) story" of the crime. The "Burglary gone bad" is traditional when men kill their wives but there can be others. Staging that paints a confusing or ambiguous pictures defeats the whole purpose.

The purchase of the cider is an interesting development. From my time in the UK, I got the impression that cider was basically a "woman's" drink and it would be more appropriate for a woman alone to drink with her "take out" pizza than appropriate libations for a tryst. (Someone tell me if I am wrong).

If this was a stranger doing a "door push", it would have been someone who had "done his homework" and not just someone who followed her home. He would have had to be sure she was alone (I would guess very few young women could to afford to live alone in such an expensive neighborhood). Could he have been someone that they knew or a neighbor who saw the BF leave with a suitcase?

Apparently they had a private entrance to their flat. What is not clear is whether it opened to a discrete spot where a car could be parked and someone could be taken to that car against their will without being noticed. At 9:00 PM, I can't see someone taking someone at Knifepoint (or carrying a dead body) to a car parked on the street.

Usually, when a woman is abducted and the body is "dumped", the Perp had taken the victim, by car, to a site where the Perp feels "comfortable" to perform whatever sexual assault was planned. This site would have a means to move the victim between the site and a car without being seen.

My WAG (wild guess) is that this is someone who either knew her slightly or "noticed" her and took some time to know her comings and goings. He did not decide to "make his move" until he knew that the BF would be away. He was probably waiting in a car for her and gained entrance either by a "door push" or some pretence. He took her to his (unattached) home somewhere in the suburbs to the west. He probably lived alone. He apparently liked pizza.

However, it would be very odd if the reason the pizza is missing is because he decided to take it home and cook it in the oven himself. Although, stranger, sicker things have happened.

 

[wfgodot]

Interesting that in today's statement the Detective Chief Inspector did not stress again the missing pizza, wrapping, and box, though the purchase and the Tesco receipt is again mentioned. As the missing items had been a key part of the investigation, that could be a clue as to what they now know and aren't yet revealing.

 

[watchful_eye]

posted by ladyl:

I wonder if the place she lived in is like apartment buildings here where they have trash disposal on every floor. Is it possible she ate the pizza and when she went to drop the box down the disposal, someone abducted her? That would explain the missing box and the fact that she left her purse etc. in the flat. I agree it's more likely she ate it with a neighbour though & if that's the case, then it won't be long before they identify who.

Makes sense about the keys and purse in the flat, BUT you would think LE would have checked the disposal right away once they realized the pizza was missing. No reports yet on that.

 

[whitedove]

Interesting that in today's statement the Detective Chief Inspector did not stress again the missing pizza, wrapping, and box, though the purchase and the Tesco receipt is again mentioned. As the missing items had been a key part of the investigation, that could be a clue as to what they now know and aren't yet revealing.

The missing pizza and box will have a lot of clues and information, it may not have been disposed of in a safe place, and they are waiting and watching to see if it will be moved to a safer place, so may be keeping it quiet.

 

[cluciano63]

I remember a case where the boyfriend's prints showed up on a pizza box when LE knew when it was delivered and he said he had not seen her after a certain time that night...anyway, this case with the pizza reminded me of that, as the prints on the pizza box got him convicted.

I don't think Jo's boyfriend was involved in this case...but the pizza missing is a strange tidbit that may or may not really mean anything, although I hope LE has something to go on...stranger murders are so hard to solve, and DNA may be difficult due to condition of body, not to mention, no help at all if not in the system...

 

[liz b.]

posted by ladyl:

Makes sense about the keys and purse in the flat, BUT you would think LE would have checked the disposal right away once they realized the pizza was missing. No reports yet on that.

I'm not sure about a garbage disposal. The flat is on the ground floor. It opens to the street. I would * think * that their garbage containers were around the back ? moo

I wonder if her co workers who were with her in the pub noticed anything ? The other landscape gardeners ? Someone could have overheard her talking about her BF being away ? And,of course, her co workers who were there that night would have likely known the BF was away. And when he was due back... MOO

All JMO

 

[sherbetjello]

posted by ladyl:

Makes sense about the keys and purse in the flat, BUT you would think LE would have checked the disposal right away once they realized the pizza was missing. No reports yet on that.

they did, and they have pictures of them doing so in previous (earlier) articles in this thread.

 

[songline]

A very sad story and a horrible Christmas for her family and boyfriend.
I Wish them a healing New Year

I sure DO hope they find the answers, but it will not bring her back.

As for the perp... I hope he will rot in some prison soon. How can someone just "off" a human being?:furious:

 

[maggieo]

Kemo: good post, you've shifted my thinking.

 

[squid]

Detectives believe that landscape architect Joanna Yeates may have been murdered by someone she knew rather than a random stranger.

Although in public police insist they are keeping an open mind over whether Yeates knew her killer, privately officers think it more likely that the murderer was a friend or an acquaintance.

A police source said the way the inquiry was taking shape was not suggesting there was an "increased threat" to women.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/28/joanna-yeates-may-have-known-killer

 

[squid]

Could a preliminary autopsy, I wonder, tell police enough about the circumstances to lead them to conclude it had been there for days? In other seasons I'm sure that it could, based on larvae growth, etc.; but in Winter, with a frozen body, would this also be the case?

The snow was a blessing and curse. It meant that any biological evidence would have had a better chance of surviving. The conditions also helped narrow down when the body was left there – it was covered in snow suggesting strongly it was dumped on the weekend she disappeared because that was when the snow fell in Bristol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/28/joanna-yeates-may-have-known-killer

 

[squid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/28/joanna-yeates-may-have-known-killer

Interesting point made in the article that "While the police have released images of Yeates in the supermarkets, they are holding back footage seized from the pub, which could show people who left at the same time – and who she was talking with."

We really haven't heard much about Jo's day period leading up to her disappearance until *after* she left the pub.

 

[Blamhappy]

I'm back! I'd like to say two things first. One, thank you so much for the welcome! Two, I will be using my mobile to interact on this site. I tend to make a lot of silly mistakes when using my mob and I can't do paragraphs. So I'm sorry because I know how irritating that is! So, the cider - someone said just a small bottle. It's also been noted that this is predominantly a female drink. I have to say that, while this isn't true at all (I was a bar worker in East London until a few days ago), I reckon the thinking that this was probably for Jo alone is right. Cider is pretty much a unisex drink. I'm really struggling with the whole thing. I'm wondering why on earth the police would decide to leave it until now to broadcast the alcohol element. Does this suggest that it is important and part of the drip feed tactic? I just keep coming back to the boyfriend. Do people on here know how press conferences work? I mean, is it likely that the police will say in public that the boyfriend is not a suspect, yet behind closed doors he is? Surely they could've arrested him by now? They have the body!

 

[Blamhappy]

Just read the post above mine. Hmmm! So perhaps there are clues in the pub cctv? I had wondered about the colleagues. Jo left after two hours. It's possible that she'd made an arrangement with one of her colleagues to come back after. I keep coming back to what the police have willingly revealed and I wonder how the possibilities fit in with what they're asking the public.

 

[AusChuck]

I realise that the police have said the boyfriend is not currently being treated as a suspect, I personally think that is only temporary for the following reasons:

1) Language. The boyfriend used past tense in an interview when Joanne was only known to be missing. A big red flag that he has knowledge that she is deceased.

2) Timeline. The boyfriend's alibi seems to be a little sketchy at best. All that has really been stated is that he was 'away', and returned on the Sunday evening. Hopefully data from his computer and mobile phone can clear this part up. Certainly the response of his half-brother to the media showed some sensitivity.

3) Story Cohesiveness. If the function at the pub that Joanne attended was work related, why didn't the boyfriend attend? Did they not work at the same place? If they're a couple why wouldn't they attend a work (or even work-based) function together?

4) Timeline. From the various reports it only took Joanne's parents 30 minutes in the apartment to be certain that she had been abducted. Everything I have seen indicates that the boyfriend was home for four hours before he thought it appropriate to contact police (I read in one post that he sat down and watched TV - I'm not sure if this has been verified). This doesn't seem to me like a viable time period.

5) Non-verbal cues. From the photographs in this article:
a] The boyfriend appears to be trying to hide as much of himself as possible when visiting the site where Joanne was found. From his hat, collar and sleeves, he seems to be ensuring as little as possible of him is visible, without making it too obvious that he is hiding. I suspect this may even be a subconscious/unconscious act on his part (rather than deliberate, ie; to deliberately make himself less recognisable to any possible witnesses), but either way it indicates he has something to hide. Yes, I realise it is cold, but look at all they other people, they are ALL dressed so their heads/faces are clearly visible.
b] In an earlier image, pre-discovery, where the boyfriend is crying at a press conference, the boyfriend's face actually looks like it may be a microexpression where he is attempting to hide a smile (his lips are certainly upturned), with the microsmile potentially betraying his pleasure at successful deception.

Each of these things on it's own may seem relatively inconsequential, but I think when considered together point to the fact that the boyfriend may have been involved. I will not be shocked if they announce he has been arrested/taken in for questioning.