GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[Phillb]

Yes, I believe that when the police are re-constructing a murder scene, that they are using the correct scene ... and not a fabrication. The Harry Potter snow is a fabrication, but the location? I doubt it. That would be a complete waste of time ... re-creating a ficticious crime scene for a re-enactment and hoping that someone would remember something when the re-enactment was false.

I think that the actual location where Joanna was found can be artificially covered with snow with the hopes of triggering the memories of one of the regular walkers on the lane, and that the lane does not have to be covered with Harry Potter snow for people to be able to envision the night, a week before Christmas ... or the night before Christmas.

Ok then. Just explain how you would actually film this scene, so it is perfectly clear and understandable where the location is in the lane?

I myself would place myself in front of those snow covered trees. Then I would look up the lane, I would see perfectly clear roads and fields, and trees.
Then I would look down the lane, oh yes, it's the same thing again, there is no snow. Then I would look behind me and think huhm I can't film over there either, there is no snow lo and behold! :waitasec: Dilema time!

So i'd really only be left with a head on shot of a few bushes covered in fake snow. I think I would have to go for that very boring angle to be honest, wide angles and different views are very limited in those circumstances.

How would you film it to clearly show the viewer the exact location?

I think I'm going to leave this location thing for now lol

 

[Cherwell]

You're right, Otto. We shouldn't really be discussing this case at all. :silenced:

 

[otto]

Otto I commend you attention to detail and accuracy. Your technical skills are second to non at embeding images, and accurately measuring mapping.
I myself do a lot of this kind of work. I recognise a good talent when I see one :great:

But isn't it all rather futile, if what you are basing your calculations on is all guessed estimations, and assumptions in press stories. No amount of calculating, and plotting will hit the target if it is all guesswork in the first place.

I'm basing it on the sign. The sign across from the quarry is Give Way 125 yds, the sign at the re-construction (presumably an accurate and not falsified crime scene) says Give Way 200 yds. The distance from the intersection to the location is 200 yards.

 

[otto]

I've never said that recreated area wasn't the exact location. It may very well be true!!

But on the other hand, I am open minded enough to know not to take them spraying a few trees with fake snow as the exact location. Using such flimsy evidence, and taking it for granted is a very bad call to make IMO.

Did they add Harry Potter snow to the incorrect location?
What were they thinking!
Who was in charge!

Who would create a crime re-construction at the wrong location?

 

[Phillb]

I'm basing it on the sign. The sign across from the quarry is Give Way 125 yds, the sign at the re-construction (presumably an accurate and not falsified crime scene) says Give Way 200 yds. The distance from the intersection to the location is 200 yards.

But who stated to base anything on that sign at all?

I think it's best left for now Otto. It's just going round in circles to be honest

 

[otto]

Photo details say (January 2, 2011 - Photo by Matt Cardy/Getty Images Europe)

That's a lot of snow and bright lights for more than a week later?

 

[bees]

These diagram photos and precise details supplied by people is why this thread is so good. I'm an evidence nerd myself so I really appreciate it. Discussions elsewhere are tawdry and unintelligent so I don't bother with them now. I've never joined anything like this before but this case is compelling. Maybe because I have a daughter in her late 20s and I know the Bristol area. Anyway, thanks to all the detectives here.

 

[Cherwell]

Ok then. Just explain how you would actually film this scene, so it is perfectly clear and understandable where the location is in the lane?

Well, we are addressing the people who use the lane, or used it during the time in question. We first need to tell them whereabouts along the road, to place the spot in context, and we do not need it to be snowy for this. In fact it is better to show it as it usually looks. So we film our establishing shots without any snow effects.

It's only the close-up that needs to be shown under snow. So that people can get an idea of how the spot looked then.

All discredited very easy with other possibilities, and contaradictory photos, and video. But I won't. It's started to detract from the thread now.

The only evidence I can see for the quarry entrance is the presence of a forensics tent, and that is easily explained. It was not the only one.

 

[otto]

You're right, Otto. We shouldn't really be discussing this case at all. :silenced:

I disagree. There is nothing wrong with discussing cases and trying to figure out what happened ... but that's a far cry from a suspect having a trial by TV - which is not permitted in several countries. In places like Iran, it's death first, talk later. In the US the suspect is completely exposed. In many countries that also do not practice capital punishment, it's also common to provide rights to an accused such that no information about the investigation is released until trial.

 

[jasmine1]

Also worth noting is Paul Vermeij is the spokesman for the Tabak family. It's interesting that TM is is in touch with VT ... or is it the statement of a skilled public relations advisor?
.

"Paul Vermeij, spokesman for the Tabak family, said Tabak’s girlfriend Tanja, 34, has been in constant touch with him."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/174272/This-is-how-we-will-remember-our-darling-Jo-Yeates/

"in constant touch with him....." , presumably means with PV, although gives the impression of meaning VT. Skilled PR, you're right, Patti!

 

[whitedove]

I found this linked on Twitter.

It's an 11:16 minute clip of JY's family, her brother and GR leaving flowers at the deposition site. I have seen it before, but not over 11 minutes of it.

It begins before they arrive by car, they arrive and leave flowers. At the 5:50 mark they walk back to the actual site ... then, after walking back to the car, hugging, they drive off.

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2010/12/27/R27121002/?s=Greg+Reardon

I'm cooking dinner so I hope I got this right.

.

This is a good video Patticake posted.

 

[veggiefan]

If there was any truth in the reports which said Joanna was found slumped against a wall then there's another discrepancy with that Crimewatch pic - where's the wall?

The wall is where the flowers were laid:

Is this where the tunnel runs under the lane at an angle? If so, I wonder if there may have been an intention to push the body over the wall and into the cutting? If that had happened, and the quarry had shut down on the 17th, the body may well not have been discovered until early January.

 

[Cherwell]

But who stated to base anything on that sign at all?

The estimate of 200 yds has been quoted various times in the media. Now as you yourself astutely observed, journalists do not go around with measuring sticks. So I think it's fair to deduce that they used the info on the road signs.

 

[otto]

But who stated to base anything on that sign at all?

I think it's best left for now Otto. It's just going round in circles to be honest

I stated that I based location on signage. I based my research on the identification of anything that was fixed, like the electrical poles, signage, and 200 yds reference. It is not going in circles to see the electrical pole in the first photos with the crane, to match it on the lane, and then connect it with the re-enactment.

 

[Phillb]

Well, we are addressing the people who use the lane, or used it during the time in question. We first need to tell them whereabouts along the road, to place the spot in context, and we do not need it to be snowy for this.

You recognise the location?
No me neither, that just about sums it up really.
I thought the location of the body was crucial? I'm not understanding how you show exactly where the location was on the lane??

 

[otto]

Ok then. Just explain how you would actually film this scene, so it is perfectly clear and understandable where the location is in the lane?

I myself would place myself in front of those snow covered trees. Then I would look up the lane, I would see perfectly clear roads and fields, and trees.
Then I would look down the lane, oh yes, it's the same thing again, there is no snow. Then I would look behind me and think huhm I can't film over there either, there is no snow lo and behold! :waitasec: Dilema time!

So i'd really only be left with a head on shot of a few bushes covered in fake snow. I think I would have to go for that very boring angle to be honest, wide angles and different views are very limited in those circumstances.

How would you film it to clearly show the viewer the exact location?

I think I'm going to leave this location thing for now lol

How would this scene be filmed? What is known to be true? That is what should be filmed ... nothing more, no scenarios, nothing more than the facts are included in a re-construction ... and recontructing the snow does not mean fabricating the facts.

Joanna was found 200 yards from the Give Way ... intersection. No one knows anything about the car, so there's no need to look up and down the road. No one knows anything about her attacker, so that is also unnecessary. She was found on the verge beside the road and that is known and relevant. She was not on the other side of the fence, although that was speculated as an objective early in the investigation. That is all that would be filmed 200 yds from the give way ... woman left by the side of the road near Bristol.

 

[Cherwell]

You recognise the location?
No me neither, that just about sums it up really.
I thought the location of the body was crucial? I'm not understanding how you show exactly where the location was on the lane??

As I said - you film the whole of the road (establishing shots) as it normally looks, then close in on the spot in question. Then you switch to the close-up with snow effect. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

We first need to tell them whereabouts along the road, to place the spot in context, and we do not need it to be snowy for this. In fact it is better to show it as it usually looks. So we film our establishing shots without any snow effects.

It's only the close-up that needs to be shown under snow. So that people can get an idea of how the spot looked then.

there's no need to look up and down the road.

I think there is, Otto, just to put the scene in context, so people know whereabouts along the road it was. But you don't want snow for this part.

 

[otto]

The estimate of 200 yds has been quoted various times in the media. Now as you yourself astutely observed, journalists do not go around with measuring sticks. So I think it's fair to deduce that they used the info on the road signs.

Exactly

200 yards was referenced in terms of the family walking "200 yards" up the road to the real locatoin.

 

[veggiefan]

This is a good video Patticake posted.

It is, but I disagree with Patticake's opinion that, after laying flowers, the family "walk back to the actual site". That might imply the quarry entrance, but in fact they actually walk up the lane, to the place where more floral tributes were placed later.

I think what happened was that they were asked to lay their flowers where the cars were parked, because the actual site (further up the lane) was still a crime scene. One LE had finished their work, the flowers were moved up to the actual site.

 

[enzeder]

That's a lot of snow and bright lights for more than a week later?

I'm pretty sure that snow fell in the area, going by local weather reports, after the body was found. You can see in the below photo of the flowers that there is a light dusting of snow on them. Taken by the same photographer and same date given.

(January 2, 2011 - Photo by Matt Cardy/Getty Images Europe)
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/EqOFurheX4w/Key+Scenes+Jo+Yeates+Murder+Case/8Rb9elSulF7