GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[Paulette]

I thought the autopsy determined she was killed with a ligature.

Really? I hadn't heard. Not that it means a dang thing - he killed her and that says it all. Then the shallow coward had the nerve to leave her freeze solid while he enjoyed a fine time with his family.

I'm not lenient. As a juror on a home invasion trial, we found the man guilty on 5 counts with two enhancements. He's still in prison 10 years on.

 

[whiterum]

Really? I hadn't heard. Not that it means a dang thing - he killed her and that says it all. Then the shallow coward had the nerve to leave her freeze solid while he enjoyed a fine time with his family.

I'm not lenient. As a juror on a home invasion trial, we found the man guilty on 5 counts with two enhancements. He's still in prison 10 years on.

If the reports in the newspapers at the time about a ligature are true, then he can’t say he just tried to stop her screaming or shut her up.

The CPS must be convinced regarding all the evidence gathered that it was murder. It can be determined if a person was strangled from behind or the front.

He could have purposely come up behind her and strangled her, the partial dna on her breasts, stomach and jeans could have been deposited post-mortem. He could be capable of anything, the way he behaved after he killed her.

I really hope true Justice is done for Jo and that the Jury will see through any attempt to whitewash over the truth of what actually happened

 

[Robin Hood]

IIRC it was first thought a ligature was used but then it was changed to neck compression. I think Clegg will use the Vagal inhibition theory on the jury as it's feasible due to Jo's neck being 'unmarked'.
If the attack happened at the front door Jo may have turned to run inside after screaming and VT hooked his arm around Jo's neck to stop her running. VT is a tall guy so it's possible that Jo's neck was more level with his physique than her waist.
Not defending the attack but looking at what Clegg has to work with.

 

[veggiefan]

IIRC it was first thought a ligature was used but then it was changed to neck compression.

The story about a ligature seems to have appeared around the 5th January, when the police were appealing for the missing ski sock. However, DCI Jones actually said that he had an open mind over whether she may have been strangled with the sock.

Prior to that, on December 30th, "A police source revealed to the [Bristol] Evening Post that detectives believe Miss Yeates' was strangled by hand, rather than with a cord or rope." [http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/JOANNA-MYSTERY-DEEPENS/story-11270100-detail/story.html]

And after the post-mortem the police said "The pathologist completed his examination and concluded that the cause of her death was compression of the neck - in other words, strangulation."

So, while we can't be certain from that statement, I think the story of a ligature may simply have been press speculation about a reason why one of the long ski socks was missing.

 

[veggiefan]

And then there's VT's brilliant lawyer, William Clegg, QC, who is an expert and specialist in murder/manslaughter cases and will likely try to prove diminished responsibility.

He may take that route, or he might simply demolish any attempt of the prosecution to prove that VT had an intent to kill.

The prosecution obviously believe that they have enough evidence for the murder charge, but intention is a difficult thing to prove, especially in the face of someone like Clegg who is, as you say, a real expert in this type of case.

 

[whiterum]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3333428/Jo-Yeates-cops-search-rifle-range-at-Clifton-College.html

This report from which I got the quote in my post above dated Jan 6th. Just above the photo of Jo. they actually say that the police said it was a ligature.
I suppose the tabloids can make anything up.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Whiterum I really hope true Justice is done for Jo and that the Jury will see through any attempt to whitewash over the truth of what actually happened

Veggiefan The prosecution obviously believe that they have enough evidence for the murder charge, but intention is a difficult thing to prove, especially in the face of someone like Clegg who is, as you say, a real expert in this type of case.

Not a good omen for JY parents with the chosen Judge and defence , but let's hope we are proven wrong. There is too much interest in this case I hope for it to be a whitewash, but who knows. They can always appeal. So many cases recently where the defendant has got off because of a minor detail or not enough evidence but could still be guilty . So this is our law and it is down to how good your defence or prosecution lawyer is.

 

[otto]

I haven't been keeping up with this case, but I'm curious about whether any evidence has emerged regarding the suspect - I mean publicly. Do we know the basis for the arrest?

 

[Cherwell]

Hi Otto

The timing suggests that a telephone call, prompted by the parents' televised appeal, provided the evidence the police were waiting for. The caller is often referred to as "sobbing woman" but this is tabloidese, and may be exaggeration.

 

[bees]

Was VT screened for DNA before he was arrested? Were any of the neighbours?

 

[Neurotripsy]

I hope the autopsy report & forensics will be able to determine whether he strangled her (ie face to face with his hands around her throat) or asphyxiated her by compression from his arm/knee while trying to restrain her. The former would be difficult to argue as manslaughter but the latter might be possible.

Asphyxiating Joanna with an arm rather than a ligature crossed my mind, but surely that would've left so much DNA that they would've been led straight to VT after the post-mortem?

 

[Robin Hood]

Asphyxiating Joanna with an arm rather than a ligature crossed my mind, but surely that would've left so much DNA that they would've been led straight to VT after the post-mortem?

Only if they had DNA to check it against and/or VT was wearing a jacket and no skin to skin contact was made.

 

[notsure]

I feel so sorry for Jo's family for what they will have to go through in the next few weeks, and hopefully they will get a sense of relief when it is all over. I feel sorry as well for VT's family. They have also lost a child to all intents and purposes, and could there be anything worse than knowing that your kid has killed someone and is regarded as a monster by many people?

 

[whiterum]

Obviously this man is not the gentle, respectable man he portrays to be.

It seems only a few hours after hearing his male neighbour is away, he seizes some opportunity resulting in his neighbour’s partner not being seen again until her dead body is found dumped and frozen like rubbish on Christmas Day.

In such a short time he has got close enough to his relatively unknown neighbour to strangle her.

Maybe under the influence he did go round to JY’s and made some sexual advances and was rejected. Any normal guy would react to rejection by skulking off with his tail between his legs, drink or no drink. Certainly not assault the girl by grabbing her around the neck to shut her up or otherwise.

In this scenario why would there be a need to shut her up anyway. If a verbal proposition she would be unlikely to scream just make it clear she’s not interested. It would have to be something physical, some attack or pushy assault on her person, only something that made her feel in danger would make her scream.

IMO the character he portrays is a veneer and not the real him at all.

 

[whiterum]

Was VT screened for DNA before he was arrested? Were any of the neighbours?

I think I read in some report, that her immediate neighbours were screened, also her facebook friends and I think also those who attended the party.

 

[bees]

IMO the character he portrays is a veneer and not the real him at all.

His close friends and family must be harbouring some of the same thoughts as they were so convinced he was acting normally over the holiday period when in fact he'd recently killed someone and tried to get rid of the body.

 

[edgedweller]

Financial Times magazine today has an interview with Christopher Jefferies, JY's landlord. Didn't buy it, but wondering if anyone here did and can scan in, or give us the gist? I suppose it might be online at some point.

 

[edgedweller]

never mind here's the link: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/22eac290-ee...efferies&ftsearchType=type_news#axzz1aDgTIU7z

you have to register but it's free.

 

[whiterum]

Financial Times magazine today has an interview with Christopher Jefferies, JY's landlord. Didn't buy it, but wondering if anyone here did and can scan in, or give us the gist? I suppose it might be online at some point.

Doesn't he look quite handsome and much younger with the short hair.

Reading about his terrible ordeal over the New Year etc:, is a far cry from Tabak's celebrations with his family

Meanwhile it emerged Tabak went to Holland three days after Jo was found strangled on Christmas Day, to celebrate New Year with his relatives.
They spent six days at a holiday village where the family had rented a group of cottages. Mr Vermeij said: "A family gathering like this is very common in the Netherlands.
"They would have been walking in the park, eating out, partying and playing family games. It was a big family celebration.
"Nobody noticed him acting any differently from usual. He was his normal, happy self. They are completely convinced he is innocent

."

As Bees commented above this is the man who had just killed his young neighbour and dumped her body.

 

[edgedweller]

Yes, perhaps all the comments in the papers about his hair made him rethink! Looks much better and younger.

Cannot imagine being able to act 'normal' at a family gathering like that, even if it was accidental - the guilt and the sheer panic about what would be happening in the UK would be overwhelming (for a normal person at least). How could you just go about your normal Christmas activities??? Even if you thought it *was* accidental, it would be disturbing to say the least.