GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #14

[bax]

Actually I doubt that JY was killed in her apartment.
As yesterday mentioned in court, in one point VT left his car behind the house...where was the entrance to his apartment...and the he left the engine working.
Dont belive he carried the body of JY around the house. The path to JY apartment was blocked by wooden wall.
Have you noticed that the bedroom window was in a same side of a house where is the entrance to VT apartment? Is it possible he removed the body through the window? Or..
is it possible that VT was listeneing music too loud and JY went to ask him to turn the music down and they started to argue about sth?

Here are some pics. about JY apartment:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/44-canynge-road/bristol/bs8-3lq/12535677

 

[Robin Hood]

Actually no, it's not. What we can see in that photo is one of the sheds, but this is further back. It is possible to walk right around the building, so he could easily gain access to his own door by passing Jo's door and turning left at the corner - or vice versa of course. This has been confirmed by locals.

Bax, you can walk around the flats, it's not blocked off.

 

[JerricaBenton]

Who are good twitters to follow for updates?

 

[Clio]

Who are good twitters to follow for updates?

skynewsgatherer
rupertevelyn
swns
jonkay01

 

[aneurin]

...

As a result, I have to continuously remind myself that in pleading guilty to manslaughter, (or if the jury finds him guilty of murder) VT has accepted responsibility for JY’s death. It’s just a matter of the jury deciding murder or manslaughter, and the final sentencing which either way will be substantial. Is this correct?

That about sums it up. And as far as sentencing is concerned, there is less of a distinction between murder and manslaughter than there used to be.

Okay, so what the fekk happened on the night of December 17th, 2010 to put VT in this position?

The $64,000 question. Only two people really know the answer, and one of those is in no position to tell us anything. We await VT's testimony with interest.

 

[aneurin]

....

I'm still holding out hope we will learn what VT's motive was.

With a guilty plea does the prosecution even have to come up with a motive;...

Technically speaking, no. (Irrespective of the plea.) It is not necessary to prove a motive in order to prove guilt.

 

[Cherwell]

This is true, however VT could access his front door by going the other way. I wouldn't walk infront of anybodys window, I think it rude.

I think the important point is that he could easily get from J's flat (carrying her) to the parking area (where he brought his car) without going in front of the house.

 

[Redgoblin]

I think the important point is that he could easily get from J's flat (carrying her) to the parking area (where he brought his car) without going in front of the house.

It must be thirsty work, hence the beer and crisps.

 

[edgedweller]

those two white cabinets on the right look like gas/electric cupboards? but I wouldn't imagine one of them would be feeding his flat? (more likely the upper flats) was just wondering if they were 'key' metres - could he have been going to feed it?

I think key meters are usually inside the house or flat they are serving. Those look like meter cupboards to me, ie just recording amount of gas/elec used. Also in a posh area like Clifton I'd be surprised if anyone had meters that you had to 'feed' - those are usually in houses like student accommodation or low income areas (sweeping generalisation, I know!).

 

[edgedweller]

Good point, Jo may have fallen down the stairs after being pulled inside, accounting for the dull thump.

Stairs? I can't see any stairs on the plan...

 

[edgedweller]

Even if they decided it WAS manslaughter (!), the sheer terror and pain that he must've put Jo through would hopefully make the judge impose a heavy sentence.

So what are the criteria for manslaughter?

Drugs - obviously he was 'with it' enough to drive and create an alibi, and text his girlfriend.
Drink - ditto.
Insanity (temporary or otherwise!) - no obvious signs of this before the event, and even if something 'triggered' him on the night then how did it happen SO quickly, esp. with someone that he didn't even know.
Provocation - well presumably JY would not be threatening a man who was a foot taller than her, she wasn't drunk, didn't have a reputation for being aggressive or plain stupid, so I'm discounting this. Plus the time factor makes it unlikely.

Any others?

 

[Redgoblin]

Even if they decided it WAS manslaughter (!), the sheer terror and pain that he must've put Jo through would hopefully make the judge impose a heavy sentence.

So what are the criteria for manslaughter?

Drugs - obviously he was 'with it' enough to drive and create an alibi, and text his girlfriend.
Drink - ditto.
Insanity (temporary or otherwise!) - no obvious signs of this before the event, and even if something 'triggered' him on the night then how did it happen SO quickly, esp. with someone that he didn't even know.
Provocation - well presumably JY would not be threatening a man who was a foot taller than her, she wasn't drunk, didn't have a reputation for being aggressive or plain stupid, so I'm discounting this. Plus the time factor makes it unlikely.

Any others?

Without a motive it's senseless... I can imagine some really outlandish scenarios whereby VT is covering for someone else (perhaps a drugs link) that's not to say people can't do senseless things for no reason. But you would have to be a pretty messed up individual to do that.

All the pros has to do is convince the jury of intent to kill.

 

[veggiefan]

Only two people really know the answer, and one of those is in no position to tell us anything. We await VT's testimony with interest.

We may not even hear that. It has not yet been announced that he will take the stand.

 

[edgedweller]

All the pros has to do is convince the jury of intent to kill.

well, unless he didn't realise that squeezing her neck for two minutes while she struggled and fought him would KILL her, then I'd say the intent was there. He's an intelligent man. (but not intelligent enough to not google the place where he dumped her body!)

 

[whiterum]

Stairs? I can't see any stairs on the plan...

I also read somewhere that the hall was slightly sunken and there were a few steps down into the hallway from the front door. No idea if this is true or not as would be very dangerous.

 

[Sonata]

Even if they decided it WAS manslaughter (!), the sheer terror and pain that he must've put Jo through would hopefully make the judge impose a heavy sentence.

So what are the criteria for manslaughter?

Drugs - obviously he was 'with it' enough to drive and create an alibi, and text his girlfriend.
Drink - ditto.
Insanity (temporary or otherwise!) - no obvious signs of this before the event, and even if something 'triggered' him on the night then how did it happen SO quickly, esp. with someone that he didn't even know.
Provocation - well presumably JY would not be threatening a man who was a foot taller than her, she wasn't drunk, didn't have a reputation for being aggressive or plain stupid, so I'm discounting this. Plus the time factor makes it unlikely.

Any others?

I believe I read somewhere that JY had the cider in her system, they said they detected between one and a half to two pints makes me think that being 5ft 4 and slim she would probably have been a bit tipsy at the least, so I don't know if that might make her more likely to have had some sort of heated interaction with him as a trigger point.

I can't think of any more diminished responsibility situations for VT... judging from his repeated lying during the initial investigations I would imagine this is just an attempt to get off with a lighter sentence rather than anything truthful. I will be interested to hear his statement though.

It does seem very strange to me that he has no history of violence that we know of. Makes you wonder if he just didn't get caught before OR if it really was some sort of accident he couldn't handle. I really feel stumped on this one.

 

[weeeva]

I'm a bit confused now. I thought VT could get to his entrance by passing Jo's kitchen window and her entrance door. I thought that he could easily move Jo's body round to the back of the building and into his car without being seen. So if the path at Jo's entrance is blocked off he must have brought his car to the front of the building. Is that correct?

 

[Clio]

I'm a bit confused now. I thought VT could get to his entrance by passing Jo's kitchen window and her entrance door. I thought that he could easily move Jo's body round to the back of the building and into his car without being seen. So if the path at Jo's entrance is blocked off he must have brought his car to the front of the building. Is that correct?

Your first thoughts were correct. The path is not blocked off.

 

[edgedweller]

I'm a bit confused now. I thought VT could get to his entrance by passing Jo's kitchen window and her entrance door. I thought that he could easily move Jo's body round to the back of the building and into his car without being seen. So if the path at Jo's entrance is blocked off he must have brought his car to the front of the building. Is that correct?

apparently it is not blocked - it has a wooden shed at that end which looks closer in the photo than it actually is. Not sure what Google Earth shows. I think he took Jo out of her house round the back where he'd moved his car as close as he could to the house, and put her in the boot.

 

[Sonata]

Could be he was in her kitchen as Jo was approachimg the area of the front door. The security light came on and they saw each other through the kitchen window, she screamed and he rushed to door and dragged her in. He said he had been in that flat before, maybe held a key at one time to let workmen in , or for some reason and got another cut.

Would tie in with what the Laymans saw.

Yes, I think this is a good theory. Perhaps he had seen Greg leaving and though Jo was gone too, especially with her being out that night. He was fooling around in the flat and she caught him.

I remember in the beginning of this investigation there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that there used to be a passage between the two ground floor flats and that VT was an expert in matters like that. Perhaps he was in the habit of entering the flat through some passage when they were out? Either that or he had a spare key somehow. But since everyone is saying Jo and Greg didn't know VT I find that unlikely. I would also imagine that the landlord would have given a list of everyone he knew to have a spare key.