GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[bijoux]

The starting point for sentencing for murder is 15 years. There are then guidelines (depending on severity) in respect to other starting points of 25 years, 30 years and "whole life" tariffs may be warranted.

On top of that mitigating and aggravating features will be taken into consideration when calculating a sentence - I think only a maximum of 5 years or 1/6 of the sentence can be knocked off for mitigating features. Aggravating features can include a sexual element or concealing the body afterwards, to name a couple off the top of my head.

On of the biggest impacting differences between a sentence for manslaughter and murder is that someone released after serving a sentence for murder remains "on licence" for the rest of their lives after release ie they can be recalled to prison for the slightest of misdemeaners at any time until they die. They also must serve a minimum term before they can be even considered for parole, which they aren't guaranteed to get.

With a manslaughter conviction (unless given a life sentence) they will be released at the two-thirds or at worst three quarter point (I think thats still the case) of their sentence and then remain "on licence" only until the end of that sentence ie if they were given lets say 12 years - they may be released on licence after 8 years, then remain on licence until 12 years have passed and then thats it where being recalled to prison for any reason is concerned.

Sentence wise for manslaughter a life sentence is discretionary (compared to it being mandatory for murder). There's no minimum - the judge decides, and sentencing is based on past precedent (ie previous cases) and formal sentencing guidelines.

Thank you so much. That is very helpful information indeed!

 

[bees]

I'm surprised that it hasnt been reported but during a 'live' Sky broadcast outside the court at lunchtime, the reporter said how GR had testified that there was a broken pedestal in the hall with Jy's underwear on it (it wasn't made clear if that was an unusual place for her underwear to be) but maybe the 'broken' pedestal was what made the parents realise that there had been an 'incident'.... have searched for the footage but Sky have updated their report now.

Any mention of underwear would most likely be picked up by the Tabloids but I haven't seen anything (online) yet.

 

[bees]

I expect she was told by LE after he was arrested, my guess?

Not sure about that - what could they tell her other than they were charging him?

She visited him in prison for the 1st time on 14th Feb (same day as JY's funeral), which was 6 days after he'd told the chaplain he was going to "confess". As far as I know, she hasn't been visiting him more recently so perhaps he told her (and his brother) on that day.

 

[konformation]

in the footage from Waitrose - the unidentified figure (VT?) puts what seems like a refrigerated item in the trolley. Anyone who knows the store (and if the displays are the same now), might know what items are in that position if indeed that is a pizza area.

alternative scenario:
I think that JY was walking awfully fast, and in such a way when one is going somewhere specific in the store. She could have been shopping for a specific pizza, VT said "I got this Pizza" she dismisses it, says "let's go", he leaves the trolley and meets her outside at a pre-arranged place...

and,
it has been mentioned that this might not be the night of JY's death. She may have gone shopping with VT and had to make it look coincidental.

I say this as she left within 20 seconds or so of him! considering the logic that some people here are employing, couldn't it be that she was following him, as described above?

 

[wfgodot]

in the footage from Waitrose - the unidentified figure (VT?) puts what seems like a refrigerated item in the trolley. Anyone who knows the store (and if the displays are the same now), might know what items are in that position if indeed that is a pizza area.

alternative scenario:
I think that JY was walking awfully fast, and in such a way when one is going somewhere specific in the store. She could have been shopping for a specific pizza, VT said "I got this Pizza" she dismisses it, says "let's go", he leaves the trolley and meets her outside at a pre-arranged place...

and,
it has been mentioned that this might not be the night of JY's death. She may have gone shopping with VT and had to make it look coincidental.

I say this as she left within 20 seconds or so of him! considering the logic that some people here are employing, couldn't it be that she was following him, as described above?

Rather reads like a backdoor attempt to blame the victim for her demise.

But of course may prove to be subsequent defense strategy.

 

[Redgoblin]

I don't think the Waitrose CCTV is VT - To me it looks like someone who just abandons his trolley. You can see the person looking left and right checking to see if there is any staff around.

Even if it was him, what is it going to prove or add to the case, he's admitted it. This wouldn't do anything to strengthen the prosecutions case even if it was him. He's said in his statement he puts his arm around her. That to me sounds like an already unhealthy way to treat a neighbour.

 

[Luna15]

Any mention of underwear would most likely be picked up by the Tabloids but I haven't seen anything (online) yet.

closest I've seen to any reference...

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/278115/Joanna-Yeates-Boyfriend-s-anger-turned-to-panic

Greg Reardon, 28, returned home after a weekend away expecting to spend the evening watching TV with Joanna.

But he walked into their empty flat to find clothes, underwear and shoes strewn across the floor and an open bottle of cider in the kitchen.

 

[konformation]

Rather reads like a backdoor attempt to blame the victim for her demise.

But of course may prove to be subsequent defense strategy.

I think you would be in the minority with reading this as blaming JY for her own death.

This footage has been released and shown to the jury for a reason.

It must have to do with others in the recording in order to be deemed relevant to a case where there is no doubt that the victim is dead, and who killed her.

Again, there is no time-stamp on the CCTV video that we are made aware of.

 

[Cherwell]

I think that JY was walking awfully fast, and in such a way when one is going somewhere specific in the store.

Perhaps she went in to see what sort of party food they had on offer. She was planning a party the next week, so might have gone in looking for ideas.

 

[konformation]

I don't think the Waitrose CCTV is VT - To me it looks like someone who just abandons his trolley. You can see the person looking left and right checking to see if there is any staff around.

Even if it was him, what is it going to prove or add to the case, he's admitted it. This wouldn't do anything to strengthen the prosecutions case even if it was him. He's said in his statement he puts his arm around her. That to me sounds like an already unhealthy way to treat a neighbour.

as above I think it would be to show that VT recognised her (at the very least), . was it the prosecution or defense who raised this CCTV footage?

The video is strange if it is or isn't VT. In this video JY walks into a shop very quickly and walks right back out again! why would she do that?

 

[wfgodot]

I think you would be in the minority with reading this as blaming JY for her own death.

This footage has been released and shown to the jury for a reason.

It must have to do with others in the recording in order to be deemed relevant to a case where there is no doubt that the victim is dead, and who killer her.

Again, there is no time-stamp on the CCTV video that we are made aware of.

I understand you're being creative in your inventions of scenario, but do think it rather casts a negative light on Joanna's memory to conclude she'd been out shopping with her killer. Apologies if I were abrupt in my judgement of the matter.

 

[Luna15]

as above I think it would be to show that VT recognised her (at the very least), . was it the prosecution or defense who raised this CCTV footage?

The video is strange if it is or isn't VT. In this video JY walks into a shop very quickly and walks right back out again! why would she do that?

look at this

ASPolice's Channel - YouTube

she looks undecided as to whether she is going in.... she is perhaps wondering what to have for her tea, perhaps Waitrose did something that she liked but they didn't have it in stock so she went for her second option which was the Tesco pizza

 

[Cherwell]

Or it looks like maybe a spur-of-the-moment thing .... as I suggested:

Perhaps she went in to see what sort of party food they had on offer. She was planning a party the next week, so might have gone in looking for ideas.

Not sure how long she was in there, but I have a tendency myself sometimes to go into a shop, start to look at something then think "no, I haven't really got time for this now" and leave.

 

[wfgodot]

For anyone just climbing aboard the thread, here's a good account of court happenings on 17 October:

Yeates killer 'held her neck for 20 seconds as she screamed' (Independent)

And also Daily Mail's reporting of same:

Strangled in 20 seconds: Tabak killed Joanna with just one hand, jury told...
then he hides his face in court as her boyfriend tells of coming home to empty flat

 

[Paulette]

I expect she was told by LE after he was arrested, my guess?

I'd always assumed she was the one that went crying to the police. The sobbing woman. I haven't heard of any other woman in his life but TM.

Maybe he talks in his sleep.

 

[Paulette]

For anyone just climbing aboard the thread, here's a good account of court happenings on 17 October:

Yeates killer 'held her neck for 20 seconds as she screamed' (Independent)

And also Daily Mail's reporting of same:

Strangled in 20 seconds: Tabak killed Joanna with just one hand, jury told...
then he hides his face in court as her boyfriend tells of coming home to empty flat

IMO, he is lying like the dog that he is. "I just held her neck for 20 seconds, wah, wah, wah." So, after he held her neck for 20 seconds, to quiet her down, what's his next move? Was he going to talk to her soothingly. "Now dear, it just had to be done, we don't want any screaming."

He had no next move. She would call the police and he would have gone to jail for assault. He saw this in a milli-second, thus she had to die.

 

[otto]

I'd always assumed she was the one that went crying to the police. The sobbing woman. I haven't heard of any other woman in his life but TM.

Maybe he talks in his sleep.

Thanks to all for the case updates!

As for the sobbing woman that called, I too am beginning to wonder if it was the girlfriend of VT. I recall that the woman came forward after Joanna's parents made a plea to the public and before the re-enactment was published. Something the parents said triggered the tip, so it could very well be that the girlfriend realized that VT was too pre-occupied with the case. I would like to reread the statement from her parents and put the tip into that context ... that may clarify whether the tip came from the girlfriend or someone else.

 

[otto]

The statement from VT about putting his arm around her back, then covering her mouth and then using the arm that was on her back against her throat causing her to die in 20 seconds is completely absurd. How did she get over 40 injuries if that is all that happened?

 

[otto]

So he strangled her by putting pressure on her neck, but she had bleeding injuries and furniture was broken? He then moved the car to the back of the house, loaded her up using perhaps his bike travel bag, got a snack - with Joanna in the car, then on the 19th before GR came home, he did the google search on Longwood Lane? Was she in the car all that time? I suppose he was searching for the quarry and hoping he could toss her into a gravel pit, but was interrupted because of traffic.

Was there footage of VT on either bridge with a large case in his car?

I think that what VT did is seriously wrong - in the same way that Joran van der Sloot is a very sick man. I think he should be hospitalized for a very long time. His sister is a doctor. I wonder if something will be done to transfer him to the Netherlands after the trial.

 

[notsure]

look at this

ASPolice's Channel - YouTube

she looks undecided as to whether she is going in.... she is perhaps wondering what to have for her tea, perhaps Waitrose did something that she liked but they didn't have it in stock so she went for her second option which was the Tesco pizza

That clip is interesting: she seems to walk quite purposefully towards the shop door, but then does a quick swerve. Did she spot VT just ahead of her and maybe pause for a second until he had moved on? It's possible he had looked at her in a certain way in the past that made her feel uncomfortable, and she wanted to avoid him. Maybe he creeped her out in some way, but it was a gut feeling on her part - not something she would bother mentioning to anybody else, and probably not something she thought would turn really sinister.