GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[notsure]

Tweet from Harriet Tolputt:

Tabak consented to the tests and told the nurse he was normally physically fit and well but had been taking herbal sleeping pills.

Herbal ...

 

[Sammyme]

My gut tells me that if he doesn't, he might as well just plead guilty and save us all the trouble. So in that sense, I certainly expect him to.

I do too. It gives him scope a mile wide to paint himself how he wants to or to make up any story he wishes because there is no one else who knows otherwise so he has no fear of contradiction. We could end up feeling sorry for the blighter. I can just imagine a picture conjured up of a well-meaning, good, neighbourly, blundering, inadvertent killer and the jury and the public gallery moved to tears. Where's me hanky? <sob...sob...>

 

[Cherwell]

DNA on breast and nipples - at the moment that looks very like a sexual motive. If his DNA got there from the bag then they can try and claim not a sexual motive maybe

Oh, I see. But it could just be from contact while trying to get her over the wall during which her shirt may have got snagged. Sweat perhaps. Not hard to imagine.

I can't see any mention of breasts/nipples, no one else has it and the original tweet is nowhere to be seen.

 

[bees]

Where's Clegg going with this business about the bag? What's that got to do with the essential matter which is murder v. manslaughter?

I think he might be trying to minimise the amount of VT's DNA on her body that came from direct transfer - he'll want to minimise the likelihood that VT was sexually inappropriate towards her so the DNA on her chest could have come from the cycle bag rather than VT directly.

 

[caramac]

Not surprisingly, Clegg is trying to plant doubts about it being murder, VT's DNA getting transferred onto JY's body from the bag as he tried to dispose of the body after he'd 'accidentally' killed her, rather than from any more prolonged contact. Building up this idea he wants to establish that it was all a split second misunderstanding. DNA getting through her bra as VT disposed of the body though, is the jury likely to think that's what happened?

 

[notsure]

This from Harriet Tolputt 6 minutes ago:

"The nurse found a 6x1 cm scar with scab on his left arm and a bruised toe nail."

No doubt from slipping on the snow.

 

[Clio]

Oh, I see. But it could just be from contact while trying to get her over the wall during which her shirt may have got snagged. Sweat perhaps. Not hard to imagine.

I can't see any mention of breasts/nipples, no one else has it and the original tweet is nowhere to be seen.

Was from Martin Evans 35 mins ago

 

[Cherwell]

Was from Martin Evans 35 mins ago

I know, but it's gone, hasn't it? Or is that just me ? :waitasec:

Right, found it again now - was further back than I recalled.

 

[caramac]

Oh, I see. But it could just be from contact while trying to get her over the wall during which her shirt may have got snagged. Sweat perhaps. Not hard to imagine.

I can't see any mention of breasts/nipples, no one else has it and the original tweet is nowhere to be seen.

It's still on Martin Evans's timeline (Daily Telegraph reporter). Rupert Evelyn (ITV) has said in reply to questions he sometimes prefers not to tweet explicit details of forensic evidence, even when it is given in papers and elsewhere.

 

[Redgoblin]

richardpayneitv (Richard Payne)
Read statement from nurse Ruth Booth-Pearson, examined Tabak. He now head in hands in court, head bowed.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Prior to arrest Vincent Tabak has been drinking more than usual and had been taking non-prescribed herbal sleeping pills

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Tabak told the nurse he was normally "happy" and had no previous mental health problems.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Tabak appeared upset but was not crying during a medical examination by a nurse at Trinity Road police station

richardpayneitv (Richard Payne)
Tabak drank more to help him 'relax'. He was 'stressed' by situation. Appeared upset but not crying. No treatment required.

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Peter Brotherton now giving evidence. He is a Chaplin at the prison where Tabak was held.

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Mr Brotherton started to volunteer at prison in January. He has been a prison visitor since 1975

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Chaplain first met Tabak on 2nd Feb. Tabak was on 24 hour watch on the health unit.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
1st meeting was very brief. Chaplain learnt nothing from Tabak. Next saw him on the 5th of Feb for 5 minutes.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
On Feb 8th they met for the 3rd time. Chaplain asked him "how are you" Tabak said "so,so"

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Tabak then said he had something to tell the chaplain that was going to "shock" him. He said "I'm going to change my plea to guilty"

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Chaplain said "what for" Tabak said "it was to do with a crime he committed" is this concerning the young lady from Bristol? "yes"

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Tabak told the chaplain he had to tell his girlfriend and that he would "find it very difficult"

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Chaplain offered help to talk to Tabak's girlfriend. he offered to say a prayer with Tabak but Vincent declined

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
After the meeting the chaplain went back to the chaplaincy office. Senior chaplain wanted to know what had been said. Chaplain told him

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Brotherton decided to tell his superior because Tabak hadn't disclosed a religion and therefore he hadn't made a religious confession

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Chaplain later told Tabak that he was "sorry he'd had to disclose the information he'd given to me"

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Mr Brotherton offered to help Tabak tell his girlfriend about what had happened and advised him to talk to his solicitor.

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Tabak was "very nervous with a tremble in his voice" when he confessed

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
When Mr Brotherton told Tabak he had disclosed his confession Tabak replied:" Well I'm not going to tell you anything else"

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer
The chaplain then told his boss about it as Tabak was not religious it was not a religious confession.

Ah, I was wondering about the confidentiality of confessions...

 

[Clio]

I know, but it's gone, hasn't it? Or is that just me ? :waitasec:

He was the only one who was so explicit - everyone else just referred to "breast area". Maybe it has gone - can you delete tweets?

 

[caramac]

Steven Morris (stevenmorris20, Guardian) also referred to the breast area.

stevenmorris20 steven morris
DNA sample matched to #VincentTabak from #JoYeates breast area could have come from skin cells when he moved body, scientist accepts
39 minutes ago

stevenmorris20 steven morris
#VincentTabak trial - scientist says DNA found on #joyeates breast area matched that of Vincent #Tabak
41 minutes ago

 

[goldielox]

So that chaplain saw VT on 2nd, 5th and 8th- three brief times over the course of nine days...and managed to get a confession out of him. That's pretty good going. I wonder how many other inmates met with the chaplain as frequently over the course of nine days.

I'm not doubting his word...VT later admitted manslaughter himself in court, but since the defence seems to be disputing the chaplain's version of events it has to make me wonder.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm not doubting his word...VT later admitted manslaughter himself in court, but since the defence seems to be disputing the chaplain's version of events it has to make me wonder.

Especially as the defence is claiming that his defence team already knew he was going to plead guilty. Can't see what there is to make a fuss about.

 

[badhorsie]

Tweet from Harriet Tolputt:

Tabak consented to the tests and told the nurse he was normally physically fit and well but had been taking herbal sleeping pills.

Herbal ...

Nytol herbal maybe or Sominex, Kalms, Valerian, there are many legit types and brands.

Badhorsie connoisseur of varieties of hypnotics

 

[bees]

So that chaplain saw VT on 2nd, 5th and 8th- three brief times over the course of nine days...and managed to get a confession out of him. That's pretty good going. I wonder how many other inmates met with the chaplain as frequently over the course of nine days.

I'm not doubting his word...VT later admitted manslaughter himself in court, but since the defence seems to be disputing the chaplain's version of events it has to make me wonder.

I think the defence might be trying to establish that VT didn't tell the chaplain he was going to plead guilty to murder so the jury don't think he changed his plea from murder to manslaughter.

 

[notsure]

Especially as the defence is claiming that his defence team already knew he was going to plead guilty. Can't see what there is to make a fuss about.

It seems to be an attempt to get some sympathy for VT - a distressed man whose trust was betrayed by a chatty chaplain.

 

[notsure]

Nytol herbal maybe or Sominex, Kalms, Valerian, there are many legit types and brands.

Badhorsie connoisseur of varieties of hypnotics

I was wondering if he could be pre-empting the discovery of some substance they might find in his bloodstream.

 

[Redgoblin]

I think the defence might be trying to establish that VT didn't tell the chaplain he was going to plead guilty to murder so the jury don't think he changed his plea from murder to manslaughter.

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Mr Clegg suggests that Tabak didn't say he was "going to change his plea" but that he was going to "plead guilty".

rupertevelyn (Rupert Evelyn)
Chaplain witness statement Tabak said "I'm going to plead guilty" not "I'm going to change my plea to guilty" as Brotherton said in evidence

So it looks like IMO that the defence are trying to twist things, I'm not convinced about anything the defence has said so far in the case.