GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey was the pathologist on both the Soham murder case, and of the Ipswich murder case which involved 5 prostitutes.

Short break in Tabak trial for lawyers to discuss point of law.

 

[SynthSparkles]

@rupertevelyn
court debating a point of law.

 

[Clio]

Jon Kay

Dr Carey says he has extensive experience of manual strangulation cases - Inc Soham and Ipswich murders.

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

Jury called back in. Tabak trial resumes.

Mr Clegg picks up by asking whether Dr Carey has experience of sexually motivated attacks. He does.


rupertevelyn

were you aware that the upper clothing may have been disturbed? Carey 'i was able to see that in extensive photos' taken of the body


skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey says the disturbance of Joanna's upper clothing was consistent with her being moved.

Dr Carey says that it is possible for no marks to be left after sexual assault.


rupertevelyn

Can asphyxia form part of a sexually motivated event? 'yes'

do you have experience of such asphyxia cases? Carey 'yes i do'


skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey says that in this case sexual assault was unlikely as Joanna's jeans were in place.

Dr Carey says that some people are aroused by strangulation.

 

[SynthSparkles]

@jonkay01
Dr Carey says Jo's tshirt may have been pushed up during transportation of her body. No evidence of sexual assault.
But Dr Carey says he cannot rule out sexual motive or assault.
Dr Carey: her injuries do not suggest a "sustained attack" on Jo Yeates.
He thinks the attack on Jo would prob have been quite short.

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey being asked how long he thinks the assault on Joanna would have lasted. Dr Carey thinks it was "fairly short"


rupertevelyn

length of time of assault? 'overall injuries would be consistent with a fairly short period of neck compression'

you have known non-fatal cases where neck compression has gone on for considerably longer than in this case? 'yes' says carey

Carey says based on evidence here he would opt for a strangulation time of '20 seconds' but he accepts it an inexact science


skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey explains that compression to areas in the neck can slow and stop the heart.


rupertevelyn

Carey thinks death could be related to a 'sudden stoppage of the heart'

Carey says it is surprising how quickly people can go unconscious or die from compression of the neck

 

[SynthSparkles]

@jonkay01
Carey suggests the period of neck compression "could have been twenty seconds"
Dr Carey says abrasions to Jo's arms were "quite minor" and could have been caused by body being moved.
Dr Carey says injuries consistent with one hand being used. He grades the pressure applied as "moderate" - no evidence of severe force.

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

" Compression of the neck can kill you a lot quicker than it takes to run out of air," says Dr Carey.

Dr Carey says Joanna probably died from a stoppage of her heart.

Dr Carey would have expected more bruising if two hands had been used. Injuries were consistent with one hand being used.


rupertevelyn

Court being shown photo of Jo before post mortem. Carey says it looks 'virtually uninjured'


skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey says it looks like Joanna was not subjected to "blunt force" assault.

 

[bananas76]

My heart goes out to him. I hope he's got some serious support to help him deal with this and that he doesn't quietly do anything daft after it's all over. Having one's partner murdered like this marks one for life.

Agree. I don't imagine having the finger pointed at him in the beginning helped much either.

 

[Clio]

Pathologist Carey says no evidence of interference to Joanna Yeates' genital area. Can't exclude possibility breasts were interfered with

 

[aneurin]

skynewsgatherer

" Compression of the neck can kill you a lot quicker than it takes to run out of air," says Dr Carey.

Dr Carey says Joanna probably died from a stoppage of her heart.

Dr Carey would have expected more bruising if two hands had been used. Injuries were consistent with one hand being used.

So going back to post #897 -
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #14 -

where I listed the,

four mechanisms by which death can occur as a result of strangulation. Being;

1. cardiac arrhythmia leading to cardiac arrest
2. obstruction of the carotid arteries preventing blood flow to the brain
3. obstruction of the jugular veins preventing blood flow from the brain,
4. pressure obstruction of the larynx

It seems that Mr Carey has plumped for No 1, whilst the prosecution pathologist pointed to No 3.

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey thinks the redness on Joanna's nose was caused when her body froze and her skin was damaged.


rupertevelyn

injury to the nose could be caused by falling or hand over the mouth.


skynewsgatherer

Jury now looking at photo of an abrasion over Joanna's lip. Dr Carey thinks this could have been caused by a fall - or a hand over mouth.

Court hears that several injuries can be caused by the same act.

Dr Carey says he found a fracture of the cartilage of Joanna's voice box which was not found in first post mortem examination.

An injury on Joanna's collar bone on left side is now being shown to the jury.


rupertevelyn

Carey says it is quite common to see injuries on the jaw in neck compression

carey says marks on the neck are typical of firm pressure from fingernails

 

[Clio]

skynewsgatherer (Harriet Tolputt)
Tabak says that he can't remember where they were but that they were standing up.

I thought they were sitting down on the sofa... That's a contradiction VT.

Were they? I didn't think it was said they were sitting down

 

[Neurotripsy]

skynewsgatherer

On the back of Joanna's neck there are marks made by finger nails, according to Dr Carey.

Jury now seeing injuries on Joanna's "trunk". Dr Carey thinks they could be "grappling" injuries or from a fall.

Injuries to Joanna's chest could be from when the body was moved, as they appeared to have been caused after death, says Dr Carey.

 

[kINGFISHER]

bos; I've always found it odd that psychiatric reports are only called for prior to sentencing, to me, VT displays all the hallmarks of pathological narcissm.

I think you could be right on this . Many with this disorder don't go on to commit murder ,but under the circumstances of him being rejected by Jo he went out of control . That's why I don't think it was planned, but who knows ,unless it is a psychopathic disorder the two are closely connected.

 

[SynthSparkles]

@jonkay01
Dr Carey is going through photos of injuries to JY's body - he says some were "very minor" and may have happened after death.
He says some of the marks and abrasions may have been caused while body being transported or during failed attempt to dump over wall.
Dr Carey: It can't be assumed that all Jo's bruises relate to the "episode" in question - Ie the fatal attack

 

[Neurotripsy]

rupertevelyn

Clegg is asking questions about the injuries found on Jo's body. working through them trying to establish what may have caused them

very light post mortem damage when the body comes into contact with a rough surface referring to a small injury on Jo

some injuries not possible to tell whether they are anti-mortem or post-mortem or peri-mortem (around the time of death)


skynewsgatherer

Dr Carey agrees that marks on Joanna's right arm were caused by being gripped.

Tabak is sitting in the dock with his head down, and hands on the top of his head. As he has done for much of the trial.

 

[edgedweller]

Is there some sort of prohibition on mentioning the name? Like having to say "the Scottish play" instead of its name because it is considered unlucky.

Not as far as I know! The Soham Murders - Ian Huntley.

 

[Sammyme]

Were they? I didn't think it was said they were sitting down

He said they were in the kitchen and he added, no other room.

It isn't a kitchen with seating, as far as I can see.

 

[Neurotripsy]

rupertevelyn

'they are all minor injuries' says Dr Carey.

skynewsgatherer

Jury now shown clear mark on Joanna's wrist, which happened in life, according to Dr Cary.

Tabak trial now adjourned for lunch. Back at 1400 for more evidence from Dr Carey.