GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #16

[2goldfish]

has it gone to the jury yet? I cant tell from posts if it has or not.

 

[Clio]

has it gone to the jury yet? I cant tell from posts if it has or not.

Judge begins summing up at 10:30am today. Jury expected to go into deliberation later today

 

[whiterum]

QUOTE]Mr Clegg reminding the jury that Joanna's lower clothes were in place. "She never was interfered with,"

Really? How would he know, she was strangled with VT’s DNA on her breasts,
Carey said he couldn’t rule out a sexual element regarding this.

I think timing is very important. For one thing Vt’s timing makes it appear from killing to car-boot, was all done in a panic and a rush. Then imo to explain the earrings he reveals her body was left on her bed for a time and after carrying the body to his flat he placed her on a bed in his spare room for a time, the prosecution asks, why?

Murder victims have been found fully clothed, not apparently sexually assaulted or raped. The sexual element can be in the method of killing, the overpowering of a victim, the power and control they feel at the time over someone’s life or death. I am not saying this is the case here but people who were previously thought to be pillars of society have been found guilty of such spare of the moment murders.

As some poster mentioned earlier, what does his browsing history show prior to the killing. Seems by some prosecution comments they may know something that could have been deemed inadmissible in court about this guy.

It may all be revealed after the trial.

 

[veggiefan]

Sorry, but I do not see the scenarios of strangling someone and running a red light as comparable.

To the person that has been killed, the difference is of no consequence.

 

[aneurin]

Is there an obligation by the defendant to disclose all details of the crime in a defence statement, or is there an option for the defendant to disclose some details in his defence statement and additional details during testimony?

Whatever options the defendant has, the prosecution clearly also has the option to draw negative inferences from the failure to disclose.

 

[aneurin]

If this is true, and VT only mentioned these remarks for the first time while he was on the stand, then there is something not right about this man.
...

That is the conclusion that the prosecution are inviting the jury to make.

 

[bos]

There is a timeline here

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...trial-countdown-to-a-tragedy-115875-23480428/

I'd still treat it with caution though because it mentions VT leaving Canyge Rd at 10pm; 10.13pm was stated in court.

It's neither here or there really, but the in/out of the cat is bothering me. VT said something at one of the dinner parties he attended following Joanna Yeates' death about having played with the cat in the past but he hadn't seen it for a couple of days but it had returned by Sunday.

 

[Luna15]

READ FROM THE BOTTOM UP (SUMMING UP BY JUDGE)

Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'did he intend to kill her really serious bodily harm?'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'manslaughter is a serious offence but murder is a much graver crime'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'the person commits murder if he kills someone by the use of unlawful force with the intention of killing that person'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'how does the prosecution do this? The answer is by making you sure of it.'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'in this case the prosecution must prove that the defendant is guilty he does not have to prove he is not guilty'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'when it comes to the facts it is your judgement and your judgement alone that counts' he says to the jury
Rupert Evelyn
Jo's parents are holding hands in the public gallery
Rupert Evelyn
Vincent Tabak has head on his hands in the dock. Once again he is flanked by 4 custody officers.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'you must not allow sympathy to cloud your judgement' he says to the jury.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'i shall be giving you directions to the law that applies in this case','please do not allow emotion to enter into your deliberations'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he testified that he did not intend to kill her. the prosecution contest that he is guilty of murder'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'on the 5th May he entered a plea of not guilty to murder and guilty to manslaughter'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he denied any involvement in Joanna's death. Police had info that his DNA had been found on Jo's breast area'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he embarked on a life of deception. He misled the police but gave them a sample of his DNA'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'some time that evening Tabak killed Joanna. He moved quickly to cover his tracks. He did not tell Tanja what he'd done'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'flat 2 was occupied by the defendant. Tabak & Yeates were aware of each other but had virtually nothing to do with each other'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge - 'on about 8.40 pm Jo was home alone in her flat. Greg had gone away for the weekend'
Rupert Evelyn
The jury are now in court. Justice Field is about to begin his summing-up.
Rupert Evelyn
Joanna Yeates' mother, father, boyfriend and brother are in court to hear the summing up.

 

[Clio]

It's neither here or there really, but the in/out of the cat is bothering me. VT said something at one of the dinner parties he attended following Joanna Yeates' death about having played with the cat in the past but he hadn't seen it for a couple of days but it had returned by Sunday.

It was mentioned in written testimony of people at a dinner party on 15th Jan which VT attended

hearing written statements from people present at Dinner Party 15th January 2011. Tabak was there

at dinner Vincent said he "used to play with Jo's cat but he hadn't seen it over the weekend but it reappeared on the Sunday"

 

[Luna15]

BOTTOM UP

Rupert Evelyn
Judge talking about injuries to Joanna's right cheek. Pathologists gave contrasting evidence on how they might have got there
Rupert Evelyn
Judge says expert evidence is given to help you with scientific
Rupert Evelyn
Judge reminding jury of the expert witnesses.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge says the other principle evidence is the evidence from the pathologist
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he agreed that all he had to do was walk out' talking about Tabak being cross-examined.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he agreed that what he did after the killing was very calculated. he was not thinking of having sex with her'... just kissing
Rupert Evelyn
Judge quoting tabak 'i think the DNA on her breast was deposited when I tried to put her over the wall'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'he tried to lift the body over the wall a couple of times but couldn't do it'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge quoting Tabak 'she fell on the floor... i could not believe what had happened i was in shock'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge quoting Tabak 'she started to scream again, i put a hand over her mouth and the other round her neck, i did not intend to kill her'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge quoting from Tabak's evidence. Mentions the flirty comment and the pass.

 

[Sammyme]

There is a timeline here

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...trial-countdown-to-a-tragedy-115875-23480428/

I'd still treat it with caution though because it mentions VT leaving Canyge Rd at 10pm; 10.13pm was stated in court.

It's neither here or there really, but the in/out of the cat is bothering me. VT said something at one of the dinner parties he attended following Joanna Yeates' death about having played with the cat in the past but he hadn't seen it for a couple of days but it had returned by Sunday.

Thanks for posting the timeline. As you say, it is not the official or definitive one but still...

I notice it differs from what I read elsewhere which said that she was last recorded on CCTV in Tesco at 8 33 pm.

The Mirror has that CCTV time as being recorded at the Hophouse pub and says it was 600+ yards from home.

Here is where it goes awry, though. 600 yards is a distance of a bit over a third of a mile, or around a five to seven minute walk. So Joanna would be home by say, 8 38 - 8 40 pm. Indeed
8 40 pm is what I believe the prosecution said was her arrival time.
However The Mirror has for some reason put her as talking to the reverend at between 8 40 - 8 45 pm, putting her arrival home at 8 49 pm.

I wonder if they did that to make it fit the arrival of Mrs Lehman at her party and hearing the screams. As far as I read and understood the reverend, Joanna and he did not stop and chatter. He said they were at a distance of 15 feet and she just turned and agreed with him that it was slippery. Nowhere have I seen anything about her stopping.

The cat. Yes, at a dinner party when he was asked whether he had known Joanna and Greg he did go on about the cat's movements that weekend and its return by Sunday. I did comment here at the time that I thought it odd to go on in such detail about the cat, when normally you'd expect a passing mention if you'd known neighbours through a cat but not a detailed discussion of the cat's whereabouts that weekend.

 

[Luna15]

BOTTOM UP

Rupert Evelyn
Judge talking about the party guests at no 53 canygne rd and what time they arrived.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge now talking about 'timing'. Prosecution say killing happened before 9pm and not 9.35 as testified by Tabak
Rupert Evelyn
Judge says the other forensic evidence is not in dispute. Talking about blood on wall, DNA
Rupert Evelyn
Judge quoting delaney saying the force used in the strangulation would have been 'moderate'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'both pathologists expected that she would have struggled'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge says the duration of the strangling before death is an 'important issue'.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge is working his way through the various injuries found on Joanna and the expert evidence given about them
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'joanna suffered injuries to both sides of her head'
Rupert Evelyn
Judge 'the external injuries total 43. It is a mistake to think there were caused independently' some may have been caused by 1 impact

 

[notsure]

It baffles me that the defence expect anybody to believe anything that VT has said. He has lied and deceived all along. Nothing he says can be trusted.

 

[Luna15]

It baffles me that the defence expect anybody to believe anything that VT has said. He has lied and deceived all along. Nothing he says can be trusted.

and yet the judge is referring the jury to some of his testimony :crazy:

 

[notsure]

and yet the judge is referring the jury to some of his testimony :crazy:

Exactly - I hope they are thinking straight.

 

[Luna15]

BOTTOM UP

Rupert Evelyn
Judge giving jury a 15 minute break. Back at 11.45
Rupert Evelyn
Judge talking about expert witness on Joanna's stomach contents and her findings on time of death.
Rupert Evelyn
Judge tells Jury it is a matter to consider if 2 scream were Joanna's screams. If they were the attack happened before Tabak claims

 

[Luna15]

Exactly - I hope they are thinking straight.

in between doodling and staring into space..... bit worried about Neurotripsy's observations.

 

[Luna15]

Rupert Evelyn
Judge says the other forensic evidence is not in dispute. Talking about blood on wall, DNA

I cant remember hearing about that? would that be the marks in the hall?

 

[Nausicaa]

This is from the Wiki article on the Right to silence in England and Wales - it will be helpful to those who have failed to take on board the substantial modifications to the no adverse inference principle introduced in 1994 :

The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 provide statutory rules under which adverse inferences may be drawn from silence.

Adverse inferences may be drawn in certain circumstances where before or on being charged, the accused:

fails to mention any fact which he later relies upon and which in the circumstances at the time the accused could reasonably be expected to mention;
fails to give evidence at trial or answer any question;
fails to account on arrest for objects, substances or marks on his person, clothing or footwear, in his possession, or in the place where he is arrested; or
fails to account on arrest for his presence at a place.

 

[Clio]

Rupert Evelyn
Judge says the other forensic evidence is not in dispute. Talking about blood on wall, DNA

I cant remember hearing about that? would that be the marks in the hall?

Judge is referring to the wall in Longwood Lane when he tried to push her body over and failed