GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #2

[mikeymot]

Rewards now total....

Joanna Yeates: £60,000 in rewards offered to help catch killer

Newspaper puts up £50,000 and Crimestoppers another £10,000 as police appeal for more information

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/07/joanna-yeates-rewards-offered

Oh No....now every Tom Dick ..and Pyllis...will be putting their theories forward...poor L/E...that poor copper will be heading for a nervous breakdown!
Also, to 'Naturally Suspicious'...are we talking the famous five, the secret three, the snowboarding two.....or Guess who's coming to Dinner?

 

[Patticake]

I don't believe this has been posted. Forgive me if it has:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-murder-groundsman-may-have-heard-killer.html


Joanna Yeates murder: groundsman may have heard killer

A groundsman working late around the time Joanna Yeates disappeared may have heard the killer trying to dispose of her body, the Daily Telegraph has learned.

The man, who is based at one of the sports clubs bordering Longwood Lane in Failand, where Miss Yeates’s body was dumped, heard a car pull up on the secluded road on one of the nights after she disappeared.

Concerned that someone might lost or struggling in the icy conditions he approached the vehicle which he was unable to see clearly because of a large hedgerow.

The man told police he heard the driver get out of the car and open the boot or hatchback.

But as he moved closer to offer assistance, the driver suddenly closed the boot, got back into the car and drove away.

The groundsman told a friend he thought nothing of the incident at the time, but later realised its possible significance when he heard Miss Yeates’s body had been discovered close to the spot on Christmas Day.

[snip]


..

 

[wfgodot]

The police didn't learn their lessons after Timonthy Evans, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, The Bridgewater 4. So they won't have learnt it after Colin Stagg, I don't think.

Jeremy Bamber is probably innocent too...

I do think Evans might have been a bit guiltier than he's come down to us as being, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm no big defender of law enforcement - didn't like their actions in the recent student protests one bit, bottling the students for hours plus charging the crowd on horseback and then senior officals lying about it.

And if - IF - they're lying about the ski sock and it, as it inevitably will not, produces nary a result - well, God have mercy on them, that's all I can say. The press and the people certainly won't.

Just can't see it though, in this particular case.

 

[wfgodot]

I don't believe this has been posted. Forgive me if it has:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-murder-groundsman-may-have-heard-killer.html


Joanna Yeates murder: groundsman may have heard killer

A groundsman working late around the time Joanna Yeates disappeared may have heard the killer trying to dispose of her body, the Daily Telegraph has learned.

The man, who is based at one of the sports clubs bordering Longwood Lane in Failand, where Miss Yeates’s body was dumped, heard a car pull up on the secluded road on one of the nights after she disappeared.

Concerned that someone might lost or struggling in the icy conditions he approached the vehicle which he was unable to see clearly because of a large hedgerow.

The man told police he heard the driver get out of the car and open the boot or hatchback.

But as he moved closer to offer assistance, the driver suddenly closed the boot, got back into the car and drove away.

The groundsman told a friend he thought nothing of the incident at the time, but later realised its possible significance when he heard Miss Yeates’s body had been discovered close to the spot on Christmas Day.

[snip]


..

I for one certainly hadn't seen it. Good find!

 

[mikeymot]

I am new to this forum, very impressed by a lot of the posts on here. Now I'll lower the standard by raising some points that have probably been raised and answered before, but I'm not as up to speed with all the details as most of you clearly are.

Firstly, what did Jo buy in Waitrose? What surprises me is that Jo could have bought all the stuff she is known to have bought on her way home in Waitrose (branding apart).

This leads me to speculate that just after she left Waitrose she was contacted by someone on her phone who she arranged to meet at her flat (or maybe she contacted them)- at that point she decided to buy a pizza and the bottles of cider.As a mere man, that's the only way her shopping pattern makes sense, but it would help in making sense of it to know what she bought in Waitrose.

Like many others, I find it strange that GR left the flat for Sheffield so soon before Jo got home. For a close (we are told) couple, who had only been together for a few months, they don't seem to have communicated very much- but maybe I'm just from the wrong generation?

The whole body in the snow thing puzzles me. How long could a body lie on a roadside verge in such shallow snow, without dog walkers coming across it? Dog walkers are creatures of habit- they sort of have to be! Is it known whether the dog walkers who discovered the body had walked that route in the preceding days? And this wasn't an isolated spot really, you would only leave a body on a roadside like that if a) you had no choice or b) you wanted it to be found. The difficult part for the killer(s) was getting Jo into their car, either dead or alive. Once they achieved that, they could have basically taken her anywhere. All very strange.

The apparent lack of evidence of any direct sexual assault must point strongly to a crime of passion, that passion being anger or jealousy, I would suggest. This all points to someone Jo was, or had recently been, intimate with. Unless we are dealing with a lunatic (is that word still permitted?), in which case motive becomes irrelevant, I suppose.

Just my first thoughts, folks, so be gentle with me!

Welcome Teibried, I too am new to this great site. Not sure Jo bought anything in Waitrose....but most ladies out there will tell you that is nothing unusual! I, like you, think she had a call on her mobile....which is why she changed plans and picked up said pizza and cider (could have been someones' favourite?) She did seem jolly when she entered 'bargain booze'...maybe looking forward to meeting someone? I do not see Jo as someone who would two time her live in boyfriend...so, obviously, I think it was him she was meeting...either for a lift home...or last minute decision to accompany him to Sheffield. Neighbours were out in force to jump start his car but...what if that was staged so he had witnesses to the time he 'supposedly' left Bristol. I'm getting very weary of all the theories...probably because I feel bad suggesting a suspect amongst those who may be totally innocent...and even worse...grieving for a loved one. I just hope that the police have the presence of mind to monitor sites like this and to, perhaps, get ideas or leads they may otherwise have missed.

 

[mikeymot]

I can see the strength of the arguments against the bf - by far the best placed person to strangle anyone and so easy to find a motive for him. Definitely the first person the police would suspect, even if they are only of mediocre intelligence as some think.

But it won't do. Mobile phone, petrol, motorway cctv etc either corroborate the bf's story or they don't. The police haven't explicitly said which it is and we don't know the details, but surely if they had not corroborated it, they would not have arrested CJ.

Even allowing for the long shots involving accomplices, I really think that the police must know that it can't have been Greg.

As for the behavioural arguments against him, I remain very sceptical. A person placed in a very extraordinary situation is liable to follow stereotyped behaviour patterns. He is not sure what is expected of him. Let him blink or put his hands in the wrong position if he wants to - it doesn't prove anything.

And even if he has something that makes him nervous or that he wishes to hide, that fact does not have to be his own personal guilt. It may be, for instance, the fact that he and Joanna may have parted on bad terms, or conceivably he might, on his return, have discovered some evidence of infidelity on Joanna's part which he destroyed - sanitising the scene of the crime before forensic investigation.

So I am opposed to the Greg solution, but also find the outsider theory hard to admit. And I am not sure so far that the police have made any mistakes whatsoever...except perhaps using taxpayer money to search through 293 tons of domestic refuse!

Good points....of course he could just feel totally GUILTY....that he left her alone that night?

 

[Luna15]

I am new to this forum, very impressed by a lot of the posts on here. Now I'll lower the standard by raising some points that have probably been raised and answered before, but I'm not as up to speed with all the details as most of you clearly are.

Firstly, what did Jo buy in Waitrose? What surprises me is that Jo could have bought all the stuff she is known to have bought on her way home in Waitrose (branding apart).

This leads me to speculate that just after she left Waitrose she was contacted by someone on her phone who she arranged to meet at her flat (or maybe she contacted them)- at that point she decided to buy a pizza and the bottles of cider.As a mere man, that's the only way her shopping pattern makes sense, but it would help in making sense of it to know what she bought in Waitrose.

Like many others, I find it strange that GR left the flat for Sheffield so soon before Jo got home. For a close (we are told) couple, who had only been together for a few months, they don't seem to have communicated very much- but maybe I'm just from the wrong generation?

The whole body in the snow thing puzzles me. How long could a body lie on a roadside verge in such shallow snow, without dog walkers coming across it? Dog walkers are creatures of habit- they sort of have to be! Is it known whether the dog walkers who discovered the body had walked that route in the preceding days? And this wasn't an isolated spot really, you would only leave a body on a roadside like that if a) you had no choice or b) you wanted it to be found. The difficult part for the killer(s) was getting Jo into their car, either dead or alive. Once they achieved that, they could have basically taken her anywhere. All very strange.

The apparent lack of evidence of any direct sexual assault must point strongly to a crime of passion, that passion being anger or jealousy, I would suggest. This all points to someone Jo was, or had recently been, intimate with. Unless we are dealing with a lunatic (is that word still permitted?), in which case motive becomes irrelevant, I suppose.

Just my first thoughts, folks, so be gentle with me!

HI

Just to let you know that Greg and Joanna had been in a relationship for two years, they had lived in Bristol for two months.....

It hasn't been 'confirmed' what Joanna bought in Waitrose, it is assumed nothing, as it has not been disclosed..... other theories are that, maybe she went in for a preferred supper but Waitrose didn't have it, so she went for her next preferred choice of the pizza at Tescos.

 

[jigzy]

where did you see the snow pics. please......


i have a feeling that house is and has been over the years a bit like pandora's box....too much nastiness around; also strange ...gay ....men; the flat the scene of a sexual grooming....must have been know to ll as he worked with paedophile owner at clifton college; the desire to present himself to neighbours as eccentric but ultimately respectable member of the community...
i already mentioned his membership of health club some way out of the area....poseur...yet portrayed himself as totally cerebral whilst secretly going to gym/pool.....look at rough trade.....

sorry no question marks and capitals as wrist badly smashed...

i wd be interested to know of life of neighbour...one with 4by4....he too a little strange

in all, a bit like a cross between enid blyton and agatha christie books.....

anyone agree...

also son and girlfriend living just 2 doors away in flat overlooking playing fields of clifton college....

they have a gym, by the way, with a pool ...as son bought this membership for xmas present for girlfriend...
why did chris jefferies go all the way out to filton to swim/exercise....

points west...bbc bristol programme...tonight concentrating on the journey home from pub in park street to clifton flat, via waitrose in triangle; tesco and boose store in clifton village...

i have a strong feeling the answer lies in the house and environs....otherwise why move body....
fascinating....but so sad for her to lose life so young and violently...and for parents..

Strange...gay...men? Not sure to whom you are referring. The man who groomed a pupil at the apartment was but I don't know who else we have heard of is 'officially' gay - just rumour and speculation methinks. Anyhow I'm not sure how being gay is significant. My male gay friends all too often are referred to as strange, weird, etc. and it's most upsetting for them

Also, the health club the LL attended was part of the Holiday Inn in Filton I believe. If you check out their website http://www.wahanda.com/place/spirit-health-club-bristol-filton/description/details you will see that the gym advertises the fact that over 50% of its members are over 46 years old - quite significant I think. My guess is that he felt more comfortable in that environment with more people of his own age. Also, many teachers and lecturers prefer to exercise a distance away from those they teach to avoid coming across pupils out of school/university - old habits die hard perhaps.

"...we believe we are the health club with a difference. While recent reports show that over 75% of health club members throughout the UK are under 35, at Spirit Health Clubs, even though we cater for all ages, over 50% of our members are over 46, while many people in their 50's, 60's and beyond continue to enjoy our facilities."


jmo

 

[Sgt Jones]

where did you see the snow pics. please......


i have a feeling that house is and has been over the years a bit like pandora's box....too much nastiness around; also strange ...gay ....men; the flat the scene of a sexual grooming....must have been know to ll as he worked with paedophile owner at clifton college; the desire to present himself to neighbours as eccentric but ultimately respectable member of the community...
i already mentioned his membership of health club some way out of the area....poseur...yet portrayed himself as totally cerebral whilst secretly going to gym/pool.....look at rough trade.....

sorry no question marks and capitals as wrist badly smashed...

i wd be interested to know of life of neighbour...one with 4by4....he too a little strange

in all, a bit like a cross between enid blyton and agatha christie books.....

anyone agree...

also son and girlfriend living just 2 doors away in flat overlooking playing fields of clifton college....

they have a gym, by the way, with a pool ...as son bought this membership for xmas present for girlfriend...
why did chris jefferies go all the way out to filton to swim/exercise....

points west...bbc bristol programme...tonight concentrating on the journey home from pub in park street to clifton flat, via waitrose in triangle; tesco and boose store in clifton village...

i have a strong feeling the answer lies in the house and environs....otherwise why move body....
fascinating....but so sad for her to lose life so young and violently...and for parents..

Agreed. Something is odd about the out of town gym membership. Perhaps it did a discount, was the cheapest, offered classes which he preferred.

If not - would you go there so you are not recognised by the locals? If so, why?

Would have thought someone so devoted to Clifton College would have used their gym.

 

[mikeymot]

The police didn't learn their lessons after Timonthy Evans, the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, The Bridgewater 4. So they won't have learnt it after Colin Stagg, I don't think.

Jeremy Bamber is probably innocent too...

Well pointed out...but not so sure about young Jeremy

 

[mikeymot]

If it had happened in the flat (on Friday), why would GR have all her belongings on him?

There was no id on the body (afaik), so if she had of been found, she would not have been able to have been id'd until he reported her missing on the Sunday night...... if that makes sense?

I do think she made it home, because I feel the dogs could have 'alerted' and that's why they was told to "prepare for the worse", and account for the talking about her in the past tense at the press conference.

The only thing I do have trouble making fit with GR; how did he get her from the flat to the car unnoticed? I think his car could have been down the road a bit, due to all the cars on the street because of the party, it would have been a huge risk being seen back there as he was supposed to have left at 7is.

In my original thread I said that I believe GR may have picked her up from the shops...he would not want to be seen near the flat....as he left there nearly 2 hours previously and was witnessed. I thought they may have had a violent row in the car and that is why her belongings were there.....long before they were place back in the flat...by someone who had every right to be there and would not be suspected of anything untoward.

 

[wfgodot]

Guardian has a bit of something new....

Joanna Yeates: Police question drinkers in the Ram pub

Three weeks on from the day the 25-year-old landscape architect disappeared, police are still hoping to the jog the memories of people who may have a vital clue but not yet come forward.

Plain clothes officers were in the Ram pub, Park Street, close to the city centre, talking to customers and putting up posters about Yeates' disappearance.

Police decided not to do a full reconstruction at this stage but are understood to be in talks with BBC's Crimewatch over doing one later this month if the killer remains at large.
---
Police have chosen to return to the pub now because it is the first Friday since Yeates' disappearance when people's routines were likely to be back to normal - the one after was Christmas Eve and the second New Year's Eve.

A 28-year-old woman who was in the Ram when the police arrived, said: "They just asked us questions if we were there the night she was there. I personally wasn't but it's good they're trying to at least get people to remember what they were doing that night. I really hope they can catch who did it."

the rest at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/07/joanna-yeates-police-ram-pub

 

[jigzy]

I don't believe this has been posted. Forgive me if it has:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-murder-groundsman-may-have-heard-killer.html


Joanna Yeates murder: groundsman may have heard killer

A groundsman working late around the time Joanna Yeates disappeared may have heard the killer trying to dispose of her body, the Daily Telegraph has learned.

The man, who is based at one of the sports clubs bordering Longwood Lane in Failand, where Miss Yeates’s body was dumped, heard a car pull up on the secluded road on one of the nights after she disappeared.

Concerned that someone might lost or struggling in the icy conditions he approached the vehicle which he was unable to see clearly because of a large hedgerow.

The man told police he heard the driver get out of the car and open the boot or hatchback.

But as he moved closer to offer assistance, the driver suddenly closed the boot, got back into the car and drove away.

The groundsman told a friend he thought nothing of the incident at the time, but later realised its possible significance when he heard Miss Yeates’s body had been discovered close to the spot on Christmas Day.

[snip]


..

"One of the nights after she disappeared" - significant use of words perhaps? jmo

 

[naturally suspicious]

naturally suspicious, I meant last time to express concern over that wrist of yours; hope it heals properly, and soon.

SNOW PICS (from jigzy's post #183):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorp/sets/72157623192195314/

many thanks to all for snow pics.
looking at them gives me even more of a feeling of a closet community...no women anywhere....also a bit freaky seeing 2 young men with owner of 4times 4....just a feeling...not happy...



thanks wfgodot for asking about my wrist...not a good break at all....wired up ...and still painful after over 2 weeks.

have been told it may take up to a year to stop aching/regain normality....

i was not a happy bunny as i fell on pavement in swindon that was solid ice....wearing walking boots, pole... etc but pavement completelyiced up...absolutely nowhere to walk that was not slippy.....road main /busy.

but lots of rest for pain and elevation...
sure that is why this murder bugs me so much/local link/time to browse web...and horror that perpetrator might get away with it...

 

[jigzy]

........
If not - would you go there so you are not recognised by the locals? If so, why?

Would have thought someone so devoted to Clifton College would have used their gym.

In education it's just not the 'done thing' to use the same gym as pupils so he'd probably never used the Clifton College gym - I think he's been retired for 10 years now so it's unlikely that he'd be using a gym at a former place of employment anyway.

jmo

 

[Idlewilder]

HI

Just to let you know that Greg and Joanna had been in a relationship for two years, they had lived in Bristol for two months.....

It hasn't been 'confirmed' what Joanna bought in Waitrose, it is assumed nothing, as it has not been disclosed..... other theories are that, maybe she went in for a preferred supper but Waitrose didn't have it, so she went for her next preferred choice of the pizza at Tescos.

That does make sense Luna... but she bought a Margarita pizza at Tesco's - the most common pizza topping, surely they would have that at Waitrose? And isn't Waitrose more 'up-market' than Tesco, so better pizzas? (sorry, ex-pat from UK for 15 years now, so not so sure about supermarket rankings any more!). Supermarkets usually offer better deals on booze than off-licences, so why not buy everything at Waitrose? ... unless there was a change of plan while she was on her way home, which does seem quite possible...

 

[mikeymot]

I do think Evans might have been a bit guiltier than he's come down to us as being, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm no big defender of law enforcement - didn't like their actions in the recent student protests one bit, bottling the students for hours plus charging the crowd on horseback and then senior officals lying about it.

And if - IF - they're lying about the ski sock and it, as it inevitably will not, produces nary a result - well, God have mercy on them, that's all I can say. The press and the people certainly won't.

Just can't see it though, in this particular case.

I think the guy in charge of this investigation is in imminent danger of being replaced by a more senior/experienced officer..if he doesn't come up with something soon. I can't personally critisise him but...bannning ITV News from the press conference..because he didn't like the way they portrayed the handling of the case ... is little more than throwing his rattle out of the pram. Know he is under pressure...BUT SO ARE JOANNAS' PARENTS...so he'd better get a grip or he may be back pounding the beat!

 

[wfgodot]

I think the guy in charge of this investigation is in imminent danger of being replaced by a more senior/experienced officer..if he doesn't come up with something soon. I can't personally critisise him but...bannning ITV News from the press conference..because he didn't like the way they portrayed the handling of the case ... is little more than throwing his rattle out of the pram. Know he is under pressure...BUT SO ARE JOANNAS' PARENTS...so he'd better get a grip or he may be back pounding the beat!

Agreed. First the Jefferies debacle (if it turns out so to have been) wasted valuable time (and ruined his reputation), then the ITV thing - not a happy first three weeks of the investigation. DCI Jones seems clearly over-matched, completely out of his depth right now. So much so that I've been feeling a bit sorry for him.

 

[Sgt Jones]

Well pointed out...but not so sure about young Jeremy

Sorry! Off topic again - seen lots of tv programmes about Bamber - things don't add up with a phonecall, the silencer and scratch marks:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...log-could-clear-bambi-killer-115875-22464725/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt

 

[wfgodot]

Sorry! Off topic again - seen lots of tv programmes about Bamber - things don't add up with a phonecall, the silencer and scratch marks:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...log-could-clear-bambi-killer-115875-22464725/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt

I'm surprised (that I hadn't seen it at least) - WS actually has a Jeremy Bamber thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81503&highlight=jeremy+bamber