GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #7

[Destroyer]

Could be wrong... Are libel laws different in the USA and the UK ? How do some of the UK newspapers get away with the things they print ? Regarding WS site, I have always understood that we do need to post that what we write is our opinion only...

JMO

My signature from now on will permanently be 'JMO'

"were not selling newspapers here !!"

 

[Destroyer]

10 Members & 17 Guests Online Currenty Reading & Following This Tragic Thread -

Please come & join in & give us your news & views plus opinions & scenarios to help solve this murder.

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++ Plus welcome to all those recently that have joined that weve missed out, welcome to Websleuths ++

:welcome3:

 

[Myserty64]

If this is the breakthrough I'm a tad disappointed but anything is better than nothing.

Just a snippet:

And they are scouring CCTV footage for motorists carrying a big bag in their car.
Detectives also suspect strangled Jo's corpse could have been stowed in a vehicle for several days before it was dumped in a snowbound lane

. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

Will a bit of heat go off GR?

People like PhillB could have their theory about JY being dumped later than the 17th proved correct.
I'm not sure what to think.

 

[Destroyer]

Here Is A New Wider Poll Some Of You Might Want To Divulge In -



1. Who Did It ?
2. What Was The Motive ?
3. What Was The Time Of Death ?
4. How & When Did JY's Items ie.. Keys , Bag & Coat Get Back To Flat ?
5. Where Did The Murder Take Place ?
6. What Happend To The Pizza ?
7. When Was The Body Dumped ?

(Please Only Use Initials & Not Names)

1. GR
2. Jealousy/Insecurity/Trust Issues
3. Between 8.40pm & 10.00pm Fri 17th Dec
4. Sunday Eve By GR
5. In The Car
6. Was Either Eaten/Disposed In Sheffield Or Motorway Services
7. Early Sunday Eve 19th Dec

 

[MrZhivago]

If this is the breakthrough I'm a tad disappointed but anything is better than nothing.

Just a snippet:

And they are scouring CCTV footage for motorists carrying a big bag in their car.
Detectives also suspect strangled Jo's corpse could have been stowed in a vehicle for several days before it was dumped in a snowbound lane

. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3361448/Jo-Yeates-cops-close-to-breakthrough.html

Will a bit of heat go off GR?

People like PhillB could have their theory about JY being dumped later than the 17th proved correct.
I'm not sure what to think.

Surely this *intensifies* the heat on GR if the above is correct.

"Hey bro! Good to see you. Can you put the kettle on, I'm dying for a cuppa!"
"Yeah, sure. Let me give you a hand with unloading your stuff first."
"Oh, um, it's fine, I'll unload stuff later."
"Nah, c'mon, you've had a long drive, let me help get stuff out of the boot now."
"JUST LEAVE IT, ALRIGHT! JUST &%!$%%£*ING LEAVE IT!" :crazy:

 

[otto]

I agree. Particularly as the body was described as "slumped".

Thanks for the detail. That is something that I missed, and I have been trying to understand whether she was found lying flat or curled up in any way. Lying flat makes me think that she was put there right after being murdered. If she was curled up in any way, then I begin to wonder about her position when rigor set in, and whether exposure to cold weather for some extended time period (like in the back of a car) could have kept her frozen in that position. Blood pooling on the body would certainly provide more information, but we don't have autopsy info. Slumped ... interesting term. I suppose that means bent at the waist, knees bent?

 

[otto]

Surely this *intensifies* the heat on GR if the above is correct.

"Hey bro! Good to see you. Can you put the kettle on, I'm dying for a cuppa!"
"Yeah, sure. Let me give you a hand with unloading your stuff first."
"Oh, um, it's fine, I'll unload stuff later."
"Nah, c'mon, you've had a long drive, let me help get stuff out of the boot now."
"JUST LEAVE IT, ALRIGHT! JUST &%!$%%£*ING LEAVE IT!" :crazy:

It most certainly does. It puts it back in the category of confrontation when Joanna returned from the pub, eating the pizza, putting her in a bag (suitcase or something similar), taking her out to the car with the skis and other equipment, visiting his brother, and then ... in those 4 hours on Sunday ... putting her by the quarry.

The only thing that doesn't work with this scenario with this:

"One source said: "Information has come to light which is set to take the inquiry into a significant - and different - direction."

Is the boyfriend a different direction for the police?

 

[liz b.]

I know I sound like Mr Negative tonight, but I'm afraid that is just completely, absolutely and utterly wrong.

edit: Sorry, I should be more constructive.
It's simply that a) something being just an opinion doesn't get one off the hook at all and b) nor does it matter if it's "just one person's" personal opinion.
Yes, there's "fair comment" but it doesn't actually give much wriggle room.
I've got a lot of experience of [specifically British, mainly] libel law and, believe me, there's an awful amount here that is certainly libellous.
As I say, though, I can't imagine a suit coming from it (for lots of different reasons).
So I think that effectively it's only, really, moral considerations that guide us here as to what we feel we should or should not say.
But, likewise, JMO and sorry for curtness.

Mr.Z : you don't have to be sorry ; I didn't think your post was curt. And,thanks for the info...

 

[liz b.]

It most certainly does. It puts it back in the category of confrontation when Joanna returned from the pub, eating the pizza, putting her in a bag (suitcase or something similar), taking her out to the car with the skis and other equipment, visiting his brother, and then ... in those 4 hours on Sunday ... putting her by the quarry.

The only thing that doesn't work with this scenario with this:

"One source said: "Information has come to light which is set to take the inquiry into a significant - and different - direction."

Is the boyfriend a different direction for the police?

Could well be.First he was a witness, now maybe a suspect... I'm starting to think of him in this light too. And I had really hoped it was not him at all...

 

[otto]

Could well be.First he was a witness, now maybe a suspect... I'm starting to think of him in this light too. And I had really hoped it was not him at all...

I too do not want him to be guilty. I see them has having started on a journey that could have been remarkable, particularly in career. There are a number of Architect/Designer couples that have made their mark on the world, and I suspect that this couple was well aware of the strengths of joining their skills in both career and private life. Architecture is a career where youth is a disadvantage, and maturity produces the greatest designs. Other fields, like science, for example, are often fields where youth produces the greatest breakthroughs ... that's all an opinion, of course. In any case, if the boyfriend considered that they made the perfect couple in terms of career, and if Joanna was not as committed, that could have created a problem. Was he jealous of someone else at work?

Still ... a new direction to me suggests someone that was not previously considered ... and I'm assuming that the boyfriend was the first to be ruled out.

 

[angel10510]

Whatever happened to investigative journalism in the UK? Used to be newspapers could command similar or more resources than LE and took it upon themselves to put the pieces together, and publish the results to sell papers. Multiple papers would have investigative journalists working that case. They kept LE honest and moving forward, and found new leads for them to follow up on. Justice was the better for it. All we get now is the papers being spoon fed by LE and all reporting the same thing with a slightly different twist.

I for one am very frustrated with the lack of progress. Where is the accountability of LE?

I'm not sure it's most useful to think of it as an issue of LE accountability. Investigative journalism is expensive, so it's more the unfortunate result of cutting costs, staff and resources. Papers and journalists tend to rely on information given to them or published in other outlets. A crying shame, really. Then we get the same errors cropping up repeatedly, or to distinguish their own articles journalists give new slants to the same information, which can be misleading if not just plain wrong.

 

[otto]

I use a lot of different software programs and need to keep up to date with the annual upgrades. If I'm not currently working on a project that uses a particular software, I look for a project to use while I familiarize myself with the software changes. I say this because building this 3D model may make it seem like I'm spending too much time on the case. This is the kitchen per the layout from the newspaper the other day ... if Joanna got home, I think she would have put the cider and pizza in the kitchen while putting down her bags.

I wonder where the re-enactment will stop? With her walking up the hill to her flat?

 

[laserdisc10]

Why didn't JY go with GR to the Christening ? Isn't it the sort of thing you'd attend with the person with whom you live and share a life and of course, share families with all their ups and downs ? GR's brother and wife had had twins. That's a pretty big deal for GR. He's an uncle. It's coming on for Christmas. All of it a happy time in his life. Surely JY was asked by GR's brother and wife to attend ? And wouldn't it be noticed by others in attendance that GR's de-facto wife, in effect, had not shown up ? Surely people who attended the church service and later the family Christening celebration would have asked why JY hadn't attended ?

So why didn't she go with GR ? There's been no explanation from LE or media, yet it almost certainly has a bearing on the case

JY could easily have gone with GR. Instead she went to the pub (which she could have done at any time of year) then left early and contacted MW

The other elephant in the room of course is what exactly was GR doing and thinking during the approx. 4 hours after he arrived back at the flat and before contacting LE about JY's non-presence

Again, we have very little information, yet those four hours cannot be simply dismissed as non-relevant

 

[otto]

Why didn't JY go with GR to the Christening ? Isn't it the sort of thing you'd attend with the person with whom you live and share a life and of course, share families with all their ups and downs ? GR's brother and wife had had twins. That's a pretty big deal for GR. He's an uncle. It's coming on for Christmas. All of it a happy time in his life. Surely JY was asked by GR's brother and wife to attend ? And wouldn't it be noticed by others in attendance that GR's de-facto wife, in effect, had not shown up ? Surely people who attended the church service and later the family Christening celebration would have asked why JY hadn't attended ?

So why didn't she go with GR ? There's been no explanation from LE or media, yet it almost certainly has a bearing on the case

JY could easily have gone with GR. Instead she went to the pub (which she could have done at any time of year) then left early and contacted MW

The other elephant in the room of course is what exactly was GR doing and thinking during the approx. 4 hours after he arrived back at the flat and before contacting LE about JY's non-presence

Again, we have very little information, yet those four hours cannot be simply dismissed as non-relevant

I think you make a very important point. He was going to have his first Christmas with her at her parent's house, but she wasn't going to the Christening of the twins at his brothers house. It seems like relationships go in stages, and coming home for Christmas is equal to attending a Christening ... in terms of relationship seriousness. Instead, she begged off because she was going to bake mince meat pies for their party on Tuesday. That does seem off, but they may have had a very open, yet devoted, relationship. It's possible that it was nothing to him that she was going to stay behind to prepare for the party. The fact that she had not tidied up should have concerned him ... or made mince meat pies ... did it?

Those four hours ... he could have arrived home, noticed Joanna missing, called her, found her phone in her bag, called friends to see if she was with them ... although we know that he didn't call her good friend - the one they were getting together with on Christmas Eve ... called parents ... called police. The odd thing is that he called the parents and police after midnight. If I expected someone to be somewhere at a particular time, and they were not there, and had ignored my calls since I left two days earlier ... I'd be a little more frantic ... than to wait 4 hours - especially if her things were in the apartment, the apartment was a mess and she hadn't been heard from since she left the pub.

 

[Myserty64]

This is day 4 of the week I deemed 'crunch week.'

We really need a breakthrough 'with teeth' and while such a deveopment has been touted I haven't seen anything exciting at all.

The recent 'new information' is the kind of detail that would have been known within days of the discovery of Joanna's body.

Also I get the impression considerable hope is being pinned to the Crimewatch reconstruction.

It appears to me any scenario anyone cares to dream up is in the frame at this stage.
The killer has been on the loose for over a month.

 

[otto]

Yet, we have to keep in mind that he was going to be skiing with his brother and she may have encourage him to have a weekend on his own ... and it is possible that he was confused by what he saw when he returned to the flat and it took 4 hours for him to figure out what to do: call her parents.

 

[otto]

This is day 4 of the week I deemed 'crunch week.'

We really need a breakthrough 'with teeth' and while such a deveopment has been touted I haven't seen anything exciting at all.

The recent 'new information' is the kind of detail that would have been known within days of the discovery of Joanna's body.

Also I get the impression considerable hope is being pinned to the Crimewatch reconstruction.

It appears to me any scenario anyone cares to dream up is in the frame at this stage.
The killer has been on the loose for over a month.

The idea of the suitcase or bag is interesting. It makes sense that if Joanna was murdered in her apartment, she was taken out in a suitcase ... it's happened before where the boyfriend wheeled a girlfriend out in a suitcase ... attempting to obfuscate the crime scene. If she was taken out in a suitcase, I don't think the assailant was anyone random at all ... it has to be someone very close to her. Her boyfriend would have been taking out bags and skis anyway ... so an extra heavy bag would have been overlooked by anyone watching the scene.

Could someone please repost the information about the green and white item that was related to a ski bag or found under something? I need to read that one more time. Thx

 

[otto]

I wonder if the missing bag is what tipped parents off in 30 minutes that something was drastically wrong in the flat? ... along with all her things being in the flat - except for the pizza ... no food prep, freaking out cat, no tidying, no sign of her for a couple of days. I almost wonder why he didn't just say that he ate the pizza on Sunday evening ... but ... it's possible that he is completely innocent, and a guy that abducts women, but doesn't sexually assault them, enters their home, murders Joanna, eats pizza and then takes away the packaging and the body ... or he keeps the body in his car and eats the pizza at home ... later. None of that makes any sense.

Although I do remember a very early police report describing someone that could be completely off.

 

[enzeder]

The idea of the suitcase or bag is interesting. It makes sense that if Joanna was murdered in her apartment, she was taken out in a suitcase ... it's happened before where the boyfriend wheeled a girlfriend out in a suitcase ... attempting to obfuscate the crime scene. If she was taken out in a suitcase, I don't think the assailant was anyone random at all ... it has to be someone very close to her. Her boyfriend would have been taking out bags and skis anyway ... so an extra heavy bag would have been overlooked by anyone watching the scene.

Could someone please repost the information about the green and white item that was related to a ski bag or found under something? I need to read that one more time. Thx

"As the focus of the investigation moved next door, forensics officers wearing white protective suits completed their search of Miss Yeates’ basement flat.

Sealing the entrance off with police tape, officers carried three bags with clearly visible labels.

One read, ‘blue and brown towel from bathroom’, another read, ‘green and white curtain from underneath skis and surf board in the hallway’ and the third one was marked ‘orange throw from fridge in living room’."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...urder-police-investigate-second-property.html

 

[Phillb]

B.B.C NEWS! LATEST!!!!!!

******32 year old man ARRESTED for Joanna Yeates murder*********

Police confirm :behindbar