UK UK - John 'Goldfinger' Palmer, 64, Brentwood, Essex, 24 June 2015

[Kasparthecat1]

"I haven't seen that one to know if that one goes in to any more detail? If anyone has come across anything that concentrates on the details of the murder itself I'd like the details please. Just seems there are lots of questions to be answered but no one wants to ask them."

I've seen it. It's disappointing, in my view, in respect of the investigation into how he was killed, by whom and why. It's basically an account of Palmer's life and crimes. Predictable stuff, really. It didn't seem add anything to what is already known.

There are so many unanswered questions. One theory is that Palmer was negotiating with authorities in Spain on a possible reduced sentence for his crimes there. Another is that he had something incriminating in a Hatton Garden deposit box which was stolen in the heist. Yet another I've come across is that he was paying protection money to some brothers and fell into arrears.

I've read quite a bit about him but details of the investigation into his death seem thin on the ground. I don't think it's even been fully established what surgery he'd had - some sources say heart, some say gallbladder.

The big question for me (and I'm sure others are thinking the same) is: who knew enough about his movements to catch him in the only part of the garden where there was no security camera? He was in the habit (so I've read) of making calls in that part of the garden for privacy. He was paranoid about safety. How did his son not realise he'd been shot? Why were the dogs not patrolling the garden?

 

[davidt]

"I haven't seen that one to know if that one goes in to any more detail? If anyone has come across anything that concentrates on the details of the murder itself I'd like the details please. Just seems there are lots of questions to be answered but no one wants to ask them."

I've seen it. It's disappointing, in my view, in respect of the investigation into how he was killed, by whom and why. It's basically an account of Palmer's life and crimes. Predictable stuff, really. It didn't seem add anything to what is already known.

There are so many unanswered questions. One theory is that Palmer was negotiating with authorities in Spain on a possible reduced sentence for his crimes there. Another is that he had something incriminating in a Hatton Garden deposit box which was stolen in the heist. Yet another I've come across is that he was paying protection money to some brothers and fell into arrears.

I've read quite a bit about him but details of the investigation into his death seem thin on the ground. I don't think it's even been fully established what surgery he'd had - some sources say heart, some say gallbladder.

The big question for me (and I'm sure others are thinking the same) is: who knew enough about his movements to catch him in the only part of the garden where there was no security camera? He was in the habit (so I've read) of making calls in that part of the garden for privacy. He was paranoid about safety. How did his son not realise he'd been shot? Why were the dogs not patrolling the garden?

I have seen the Crimewatch reconstruction and obviously have no idea how accurate it is. If it is accurate I do find it remarkable the gunshot wounds were mistaken for surgery scars or something. I think paramedics may have raised questions?

From the killers point of view it couldn't have gone any better. Palmer being in an area not covered by CCTV, his partner off horse riding, his son and son's girlfriend in the house seeing and hearing nothing, no guard dogs present and to cap it all he's got a week's start to get away before anyone realises there's been a murder. I'd have thought one of the biggest gangsters in the UK bring found dead in his garden covered in blood would have warranted a thorough examination at any time. Having said that there has been some talk that local police didn't know it was Palmer thst was living there.

Perhaps the gunman just got lucky and had no idea about the CCTV coverage. In any event I doubt he could believe his luck.

 

[dotr]

Regarding the hole in the fence through which JP apparently was watched and wondering, if there was a camera situated at the small hole, then removed immediately after the murder? speculation, imo.

 

[davidt]

Regarding the hole in the fence through which JP apparently was watched and wondering, if there was a camera situated at the small hole, then removed immediately after the murder? speculation, imo.

The Crimewatch reconstruction shows the hole being made shortly before the killing. Can't really see how they can know that though. I wondered if it could have been made previously and used to observe him for some time. I also wonder how long a person could be the other side of that fence without being seen? I know the property was secluded so perhaps there wouldn't usually be any passers by.

 

[dotr]

Hitman known as 'The Butcher' named in John 'Goldfinger' Palmer murder

New documentary claims Imre Arakas might have been hired by one of Palmer's former henchmen over fears the Brink's-Mat villain was planning to give evidence against him

www.mirror.co.uk

30 Sep 2025

''A hitman suspected of killing John "Goldfinger" Palmer at his mansion jetted in to the UK two weeks before the shooting.
Imre Arakas, dubbed The Butcher, might have been hired by one of Palmer’s former criminal associates, a new Sky documentary claims.''
''Arakas is said to have carried out dozens of contract killings and is serving a 10-year term for murdering a cage fighter in Lithuania.''

Sep 23, 2025 #skytv
''On June 24, 2015, notorious gangster John “Goldfinger” Palmer was found dead in his Essex garden, shot six times, with no witnesses and no forensic trail. Ten years later, his murder remains unsolved.This gripping Sky Documentaries series re-examines Palmer’s mysterious death and the theories behind it. Across three episodes, follow the investigation from Essex to Tenerife, Ireland, and Lithuania, uncovering Palmer’s criminal empire from the Brink’s-Mat gold heist to international scams and mafia connections.Featuring exclusive interviews with Palmer’s family and associates, and led by private investigators TM Eye, the series dives deep into the underworld to answer the question: Who killed Goldfinger?''

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Regarding the hole in the fence through which JP apparently was watched and wondering, if there was a camera situated at the small hole, then removed immediately after the murder? speculation, imo.

I'd also assumed that the hole was already there, and that Goldfinger was being surveilled over a period of time. But yes, there's a risk of being spotted, or the hole being discovered. So perhaps the hole was indeed drilled at the time of the murder as Crimewatch says. And i think the property was quite close to a path through the woods.

 

[Grouse]

A while ago I Iooked on google maps at the location in some detail and tried to match to various photos of the property and surrounding fence. What struck me was not just that it is a very secluded property, but that it's also surrounded on all sides by open/accessible land (with Keep Out signs at various spots), so I think it could have been quite easy for someone to scope it out over a period of time and observe the apparently regular bonfires and maybe work out there were no cameras down that end of the garden.

Edit: though having said that I am surprised that the dogs didn't sense anything.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Tbh I've always had the same questions myself. The circumstances of Palmers killing seem very convenient.

I watched a lot of documentaries, podcasts and articles as well as the BBC Gangster series and they all seem to do the same thing. They spend a lot of time talking about Palmer's life and crimes and who might want to kill him. But they never seem to do much analysis of Palmers murder itself which I've always found odd.

The usually mention he was killed in one of the few areas not covered by CCTV, that it was a week or so before it was realised he'd been shot, that some paramedics questioned it at the time but were brushed off. Its believed the gunman scaled a fence at the back of the garden, there was also a small hole in the fence panel believed to have been used to spy on Palmer. And finally local police didn't seem to know who it was at the time.

But they don't seem to analyse any if this in any depth. They just mention it and move on. Did the gunman just get lucky or did he know where to be? If he knew how did he know and did he have inside information/help? Palmer was very security conscious and usually wore a bulletproof vest. Is there any idea if the gunman had been stalking Palmer for some time or just turned up one day and got lucky? It's not as though Palmer was lured somehere or a bogus meeting set up, or the gunman directly called at the house. He was killed just going anout bus business in the garden. He could have been there for days without seeing Palmer. Could Palmer have been set up in some way? Were there any sightings of potential suspects. Is it credible no one really realised he been shot at the time. I know Sky recently did a new documentary on this and I haven't seen that one to know if that one goes in to any more detail? If anyone has come across anything thst concentrates on the dersils of the murder itself I'd like the details please. Just seems there are lots of questions to be answered but no one wants to ask them.

I think definitely the police should be enquiring into how close the relationship was between John Palmer and his immediate family, while I am not implying his wife or/and his son were involved but the fact the dogs were inside at the time Palmer was shot (unheard of apparently) and the fact the gunman knew the exact and only spot where there is no CCTV should be a police line of enquiry. His wife was out for the afternoon and his son was inside with his girlfriend so won’t have seen or heard the killings but definitely some strange stuff re how the gunman knew the CCTV system and how the guard dogs were inside at the time

 

[Kasparthecat1]

From watching the Sky Documentary, I get the impression that Essex Police are not particularly invested in solving this. Apparently - not sure where I heard this - they didn't even know who he was. I find that hard to believe- he was one of the UK's most notorious criminals fgs. He was shot several times but no-one twigged this until the postmortem? Iirc one theory was that he'd fallen and opened his operation would, accounting for the blood.

 

[davidt]

From watching the Sky Documentary, I get the impression that Essex Police are not particularly invested in solving this. Apparently - not sure where I heard this - they didn't even know who he was. I find that hard to believe- he was one of the UK's most notorious criminals fgs. He was shot several times but no-one twigged this until the postmortem? Iirc one theory was that he'd fallen and opened his operation would, accounting for the blood.

Tbh it's a top gangster they don't have to worry about any more. Almost certainly a gangland killing with the killer probably out of the country the same day. Unlikely it will be solved and I doubt they are too bothered.

 

[davidt]

From watching the Sky Documentary, I get the impression that Essex Police are not particularly invested in solving this. Apparently - not sure where I heard this - they didn't even know who he was. I find that hard to believe- he was one of the UK's most notorious criminals fgs. He was shot several times but no-one twigged this until the postmortem? Iirc one theory was that he'd fallen and opened his operation would, accounting for the blood.

Too late to add to my last post. I've seen documentaries and read articles where it's said local police didn't know who he was. Sounds mad at first glance. However the met police had a separate unit monitoring Palmer's activities. It was somewhere in an isolated spot on its own. Palmer had corrupted so many people they couldn't trust their own officers in general. So perhaps local police were unaware.

Again I don't know how accurate the Crimewatch reconstruction was but it shows Palmer being shot several times in tbe back. I think he was shot six times? They show him being hit in different areas of his back. I still struggle somewhat to see that being confused with an operation wound.

 

[davidt]

I think definitely the police should be enquiring into how close the relationship was between John Palmer and his immediate family, while I am not implying his wife or/and his son were involved but the fact the dogs were inside at the time Palmer was shot (unheard of apparently) and the fact the gunman knew the exact and only spot where there is no CCTV should be a police line of enquiry. His wife was out for the afternoon and his son was inside with his girlfriend so won’t have seen or heard the killings but definitely some strange stuff re how the gunman knew the CCTV system and how the guard dogs were inside at the time

And how he was in the right place at the time. I know its said Palmer regularly burnt paperwork there. But regularly doesn't really give any idea of frequency. Once a week would be regularly but not particularly frequent. And not necessarily the same days either. Did the gunman wait some time and how easy would it be to do so without being seen. Could have been days to wait. It's not as if Palmer was lured in to the garden or anything.

 

[BrianJohnson]

And how he was in the right place at the time. I know its said Palmer regularly burnt paperwork there. But regularly doesn't really give any idea of frequency. Once a week would be regularly but not particularly frequent. And not necessarily the same days either. Did the gunman wait some time and how easy would it be to do so without being seen. Could have been days to wait. It's not as if Palmer was lured in to the garden or anything.

Assuming the assassin used that small hole in the fence overlooking the area where there was no CCTV it would not have given him a full view of the entire garden, just that focused area. The assassin even if he spotted Palmer won’t have been able to see if one or more of the dogs were in the garden so it is almost like the assassin was told that the dogs would not be outside that afternoon

I have wondered whether Palmer arranged his own hit, he had received court summonses for Spain and at his age very likely will have died in jail, maybe he was so terrified at the prospect of going back to jail for a long time that he paid someone to shoot him

That might explain how the assassin knew about the CCTV arrangements, Palmer could have said “I will keep the dogs in that afternoon”, I read recently too that Palmer always wore a bullet proof vest but wasn’t wearing one that day

 

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[davidt]

Assuming the assassin used that small hole in the fence overlooking the area where there was no CCTV it would not have given him a full view of the entire garden, just that focused area. The assassin even if he spotted Palmer won’t have been able to see if one or more of the dogs were in the garden so it is almost like the assassin was told that the dogs would not be outside that afternoon

I have wondered whether Palmer arranged his own hit, he had received court summonses for Spain and at his age very likely will have died in jail, maybe he was so terrified at the prospect of going back to jail for a long time that he paid someone to shoot him

That might explain how the assassin knew about the CCTV arrangements, Palmer could have said “I will keep the dogs in that afternoon”, I read recently too that Palmer always wore a bullet proof vest but wasn’t wearing one that day

I'm not sure if the fence was checked for holes at any other locations? I've only ever heard of the one being spoken about.

 

[dotr]

Back to my speculations concerning stalking "Goldfinger" at a distance, in order to kill him at the most opportune time, fwiw, imo..
2015 rbbm.

https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2015/10/14/misbehaving-drones-increasingly-plague-uk-and-us-skies/

''Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have been spotted hovering over playgrounds, hurtling through the skies over London’s Hyde Park, dropping packets of drugs into prison, gawking at a sunbather, following somebody home and then hovering outside their bedroom window, buzzing at 365 metres (1,200 feet) above Liverpool city centre, being flown over a house by neighbours tied up in a six-year boundary dispute, and lingering above people to apparently record them as they entered their PINs into ATMs.''

 

[davidt]

Back to my speculations concerning stalking "Goldfinger" at a distance, in order to kill him at the most opportune time, fwiw, imo..
2015 rbbm.

https://news.sophos.com/en-us/2015/10/14/misbehaving-drones-increasingly-plague-uk-and-us-skies/

''Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have been spotted hovering over playgrounds, hurtling through the skies over London’s Hyde Park, dropping packets of drugs into prison, gawking at a sunbather, following somebody home and then hovering outside their bedroom window, buzzing at 365 metres (1,200 feet) above Liverpool city centre, being flown over a house by neighbours tied up in a six-year boundary dispute, and lingering above people to apparently record them as they entered their PINs into ATMs.''

Definitely an interesting idea. It's certainly curious how the gunman was in the right place at the right time. It's difficult to think it was pure luck. It feels like possibly he was observing from somewhere, somehow.

 

[Grouse]

Assuming the assassin used that small hole in the fence overlooking the area where there was no CCTV it would not have given him a full view of the entire garden, just that focused area. The assassin even if he spotted Palmer won’t have been able to see if one or more of the dogs were in the garden so it is almost like the assassin was told that the dogs would not be outside that afternoon

I have wondered whether Palmer arranged his own hit, he had received court summonses for Spain and at his age very likely will have died in jail, maybe he was so terrified at the prospect of going back to jail for a long time that he paid someone to shoot him

That might explain how the assassin knew about the CCTV arrangements, Palmer could have said “I will keep the dogs in that afternoon”, I read recently too that Palmer always wore a bullet proof vest but wasn’t wearing one that day

That's an interesting theory. From cctv images of Palmer in the garden that afternoon, at least one of the dogs was outside at some points (image in the link below).

'Goldfinger' murder shrouded in mystery as police renew appeal for information

 

[BrianJohnson]

That's an interesting theory. From cctv images of Palmer in the garden that afternoon, at least one of the dogs was outside at some points (image in the link below).

'Goldfinger' murder shrouded in mystery as police renew appeal for information

Articles I have read and documentaries I have seen suggest that Palmer was killed on the orders of someone who wanted him dead incase he turns supergrass in the Spanish trial, not impossible, but Palmer was a very smart guy and would have second guessed that and upped his security such as wearing his bulletproof vest, dogs out at all times etc. Just seems extraordinary that he was out there when he was shot with no security measures. I can’t help but feel he arranged this himself

 

[davidt]

That's an interesting theory. From cctv images of Palmer in the garden that afternoon, at least one of the dogs was outside at some points (image in the link below).

'Goldfinger' murder shrouded in mystery as police renew appeal for information

Interesting that article also mentions the belief the spy hole may have been used for several days. If so, someone must have been staying in the area. Wonder how often they used it and for how long.