UK UK- Joy Hewer, 50, Teacher/church volunteer, sexually assaulted & fatally stabbed in chest, apartment set on fire, Walthamstow, 17 Oct.1995 *REWARD*

[Deadbeat]

This is an interesting mini doc on the case, uploaded to YouTube 4 months ago. I’m assuming this is also the full phone call used here? The call handler sounds like she’s getting quite stressed by his seeming lack of knowledge of any of the roads:

Perhaps even more interesting though, are the comments on this particular YouTube video. Some of which are apparently from Joy’s niece? She states:

* “The vicar of the church had a temper & a criminal record & I'd bet it was him. My mum Mary is joys cousin & she now has dementia & I'd love to have this solved. Joys sister penny Barnes is still looking for answers.”

* “The caretaker committed suicide not long after this but he has been ruled out by police.”

* (in answer to why CCTV didn’t capture man leaving) “Cctv was on a loop, there is dna evidence so hopefully they will be caught now. We agree re LHM snd possibilities around this”.


These comments of course could be made by someone trolling though, there’s no real proof the person using that particular YouTube account is who they say they are.

 

[Rookie D]

According to a user on Reddit the fire was never raging and it was in fact "smouldering" according to the police press releases. Do you have a link to the video footage that shows the coffee cups on the table and the drawings? Thank

I am not sure how to add links, as I am not that tech savvy.

However, the footage I am referring to can be seen on the 2015 Crimewatch update.

The footage formed part of the BBC's News room south east tv broadcast that was then used as part of the Crimewatch broadcast.

If you go to Youtube and search for the case under "Crimewatch," it will come up. The specific video has a picture of Michael Winner on it, as he featured as the first case.
However, if you forward to 27.05 and let it run for precisely 10 seconds to 27.15, it clearly shows that there's only one cup on the table. The cup is also facing at an angle that suggests that either Joy or her killer were (possibly) left handed.
There's also a circular white mark on the table that may suggest that another cup was there, but that it had been removed before the footage was taken; unlikely as that may seem.
Note that there's also a plant on the table, and a wooden guitar at the far end of the room.
There's also paperwork on the table, and if you look just to the left of the plant, it looks like there's an e-fit style drawing on the table.

If someone could explain to me how I can attach a link to a source I am referring to; so that I don't need to over explain, then that would be very much appreciated, haha!

 

[dotr]

I am not sure how to add links, as I am not that tech savvy.

However, the footage I am referring to can be seen on the 2015 Crimewatch update.

The footage formed part of the BBC's News room south east tv broadcast that was then used as part of the Crimewatch broadcast.

If you go to Youtube and search for the case under "Crimewatch," it will come up. The specific video has a picture of Michael Winner on it, as he featured as the first case.
However, if you forward to 27.05 and let it run for precisely 10 seconds to 27.15, it clearly shows that there's only one cup on the table. The cup is also facing at an angle that suggests that either Joy or her killer were (possibly) left handed.
There's also a circular white mark on the table that may suggest that another cup was there, but that it had been removed before the footage was taken; unlikely as that may seem.
Note that there's also a plant on the table, and a wooden guitar at the far end of the room.
There's also paperwork on the table, and if you look just to the left of the plant, it looks like there's an e-fit style drawing on the table.

If someone could explain to me how I can attach a link to a source I am referring to; so that I don't need to over explain, then that would be very much appreciated, haha!

@ 27:05

 

[Rookie D]

@ 27:05

That's the one dotr

Thank you so much for linking that! I didn't know how to link, so that's very much appreciated.


The ONE coffee cup, the white mark on the table, the paperwork on the table, the possible e-fit style drawing, the guitar, the plant etc...etc... all of these may be insignificant when looked at in isolation, but I feel that when combined they may provide us with important clues.

The fact that a plant was situated next to the sofa that had fire damage, but the organic plant survived, doesn't support 2 fires that were alleged to have raged for well over 30 minutes.

The 2 fires that were started were very localised and despite there being multiple items that should have be incinerated and/or acted as fuel, many of them have clearly remained unscathed.

I believe the evidence that the fire wasn't started much before 23.15pm is there right in front of us.

The devil as they say, is in the detail.

 

[tes1984]

I can't really make out the possible e-fit. Is it a bald man with large glasses??

Joy was described as being extremely tidy. It's hard to tell from the limited footage, but the flat looks pretty cluttered to me.

Could the killer have ransacked or re-arranged items? As far as the police know, he didn't take anything from the flat. They found Joy's credit cards and £6 cash in the property, but it is possible in theory that the killer took larger bank notes and left the smaller change.

I suspect the killer had his own knife, but It's also possible in theory that he used a knife from Joy's flat. She lived alone so would anyone know for sure exactly how many kitchen knives she had?

As for the coffee cups, the modern police say they were found in the flat, but don't specify where. I read something about them being found in the kitchen, but it seems at least one of them was in the living room.

If the cups were found in different rooms, then it means Joy probably didn't sit down for a coffee with her killer. It would be good to know exactly where the cups were found.

 

[Rookie D]

I can't really make out the possible e-fit. Is it a bald man with large glasses??

Joy was described as being extremely tidy. It's hard to tell from the limited footage, but the flat looks pretty cluttered to me.

Could the killer have ransacked or re-arranged items? As far as the police know, he didn't take anything from the flat. They found Joy's credit cards and £6 cash in the property, but it is possible in theory that the killer took larger bank notes and left the smaller change.

I suspect the killer had his own knife, but It's also possible in theory that he used a knife from Joy's flat. She lived alone so would anyone know for sure exactly how many kitchen knives she had?

As for the coffee cups, the modern police say they were found in the flat, but don't specify where. I read something about them being found in the kitchen, but it seems at least one of them was in the living room.

If the cups were found in different rooms, then it means Joy probably didn't sit down for a coffee with her killer. It would be good to know exactly where the cups were found.

Excellent post, now we're talking!

I think that what looks like an e-fit drawing, looks indeed like a non-Caucasian bald man with some facial hair. It looks like the drawing is part of a pad or reel of paper as shown by the very top portion of the pad that the face is drawn on.

IMO, it looks very much to me that someone has ransacked the room, but looking specifically for a particular paper document; perhaps an official document of some importance; an insurance policy, deeds for a property, or a birth certificate perhaps? I say this because there appears to be a fair amount of paperwork on and around the table, and unless Joy was an artist who drew portraits etc...then it seems very possible that the killer was looking for something very specific.

Perhaps that formed part of the reason why he went over to see her in the first place?

And perhaps the killer propositioned her to give him a particular document, that Joy then refused, and perhaps this was the motivation the killer needed to take her life?

Trying to think outside the box here, but I feel that my hypothesis has some traction, especially when one considers the state of the room in context with the idea that Joy's flat was usually pristine.

Was the killer's motive driven by something else, and the brutality of her murder simply a ruse to divert blame onto the London Healing Mission?

Curious indeed

 

[Konstantin]

Joy was described as being extremely tidy. It's hard to tell from the limited footage, but the flat looks pretty cluttered to me.

Maybe she tidied up when people visited normally, so visitors perceived her as being tidy, but had things out and not tidied away when she was there alone. I have a friend like that - she lives alone and her flat is always very tidy and spotless when I visit but she says she is pretty relaxed about it when she's just chilling on her own. She's houseproud for visitors.

I don't think it was a big flat, so that's why her clothes drier is out and clothes on it, there was probably no other space. At least some if not most of the mess will be from the firefighters getting in there and spraying whatever they spray over the fire to put it out.

How long was the killer even in there? It can't have been a very long time.