UK UK- Joy Hewer, 50, Teacher/church volunteer, sexually assaulted & fatally stabbed in chest, apartment set on fire, Walthamstow, 17 Oct.1995 *REWARD*

[Rookie D]

Fair enough. I must have missed that bit. I apologise.

No apologies needed, I had to double check it myself, so it's all good.

 

[GTB72]

No apologies needed, I had to double check it myself, so it's all good.

The black male may be unrelated to the murder, but, if so, it's highly suspicious behaviour in any case. It probably does make your two man job more viable, which if it was, would to my mind make some sort of conspiracy re the London Healing Mission more plausible.

 

[tes1984]

That means that if the killer was the man who made the call at 23.18pm, the very latest he could have started the fires would have been at 23.15pm. That's 3 minutes to run down the stairs, run across the road and then up Fulborne Road to the phone box on the other side of the road.

Also, the man who was seen running out the building was a 6ft 4" black male, whereas the man in the CCTV is definitely NOT the same man.

Hence why I believe there were 2 men involved. The white man on CCTV being the killer, and the black male who ran down the stairs, who nearly got hit by a car and then IMO ran and made the 999 phone call, was the man who started the fires after the killer had already left the flats around 15 minutes earlier, in order for the killer to give himself an alibi.

Regarding the phone caller, DC Sean McLeary said "All we know of him is that he's around 6ft 4ins tall and slim".

The black male seen running was also described as being slim and around 6ft 4 tall.

The local press said the running man was witnessed at 10.45pm, which if accurate would mean that (if he's also the caller) he took over half an hour to reach the phonebox.

 

[GTB72]

Regarding the phone caller, DC Sean McLeary said "All we know of him is that he's around 6ft 4ins tall and slim".

The black male seen running was also described as being slim and around 6ft 4 tall.

The local press said the running man was witnessed at 10.45pm, which if accurate would mean that (if he's also the caller) he took over half an hour to reach the phonebox.

Thanks for the heads up. Will need to watch that again as I have clearly missed things first time round.

 

[RC80]

Hence why I believe there were 2 men involved. The white man on CCTV being the killer, and the black male who ran down the stairs, who nearly got hit by a car and then IMO ran and made the 999 phone call, was the man who started the fires after the killer had already left the flats around 15 minutes earlier, in order for the killer to give himself an alibi.

I can see where the idea of two people involved works, I just don't see the overall logic of it. Majority of murderers wouldn't involve another person as they don't want the added risk of more people knowing what happened. But this tall black man has ran out of the flat having killed Joy, gone got his white friend to go in and set fire to the flat, made an awful job at trying to hide the evidence (Though ironically is currently still successful) before running down the stairs and making a call to report the fire he has started. I struggle to believe it.

To me it seems like an unplanned murder and a panicked attempt to hide his tracks. Originally I believed the caller was the killer but the more I listen to the call the less convinced I become. The problem is there are anomaly's with the call. "Flames coming out of one of the floors" Would you really see that 6 floors up whilst driving along? Was it a curtain ablaze that he saw? The damage in the flat and the fire officers I believe said it was more a smouldering fire. Maybe curtains on fire could look like flames were coming out? In that case why did no one else report a fire in a block of flats barring in mind he was driving along, had to park up, see what building the fire was in etc. Surely someone else must of seen flames even at that time of night? Assuming he was using the only phonebox nearby then surely someone would have approached and said about the fire to ensure it was being reported? He was on the phone for over 2 1/2 minutes so plenty of time for other passers by to see it. However, when I listen to the voice I get the impression of an anxious chap who has planned in his head what to say (Driving along, seen flames, it's at St David's Court) and when the operator starts asking more questions about where he is it throws him as he is not overly familiar with the area. He is quick to ask a random person for help so wouldn't have any inhibitions about doing that whereas a more introverted person (thinking about myself) would probably start 'erring and arring' and looking around for road names or some other clue. Not sure where I am going with this but though the call doesn't completely add up he don't sound like he has just killed or attempted to cover up a murder scene.

 

[RC80]

Regarding the phone caller, DC Sean McLeary said "All we know of him is that he's around 6ft 4ins tall and slim".

The black male seen running was also described as being slim and around 6ft 4 tall.

The local press said the running man was witnessed at 10.45pm, which if accurate would mean that (if he's also the caller) he took over half an hour to reach the phonebox.

The running man in the Crimewatch report was suggested "some time just after 10.30".

I don't believe there has ever been a description of the caller?

Surely if Joy had some kind of association with a 6ft 4 black man then it would of cropped up in investigations at some point? If he was a paid killer, or under duress to do it, how has he got himself into her flat?