UK - Julia James, 53, murdered, Snowdown, Kent, 27 April 2021 *ARREST*

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #301
  • #302
Wow
To have a murder solved crime rate with 40 unsolved is very concerning and IMOO the force should be subject to a murder cold case review and another outside force to review the outstanding cases


I think if you look at the list it includes 11 killed in an IRA attack.I think someone has been arrested for the bedsit murders.
 
  • #303
Just caught up with this thread and there's a few thoughts that spring to mind.

- I personally wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the dognapping theory.

On the face of it it seems absurd that someone could try and steal a dog, find themselves murdering someone, and still not take the dog. For what it's worth I think this is plausible, and not just because the dog will have been chipped, but also because no one wants to get bitten by a dog and leave their blood at a crime scene. Jack Russells can be quite a handful when they want to be.

I've noticed that there's been a mod post about not stereotyping groups of people, so I'll tread very carefully, but a lot of dognappings revolve around groups who are involved with more serious crimes. Last year a raid at the other end of Kent (Orpington) saw weapons and drugs seized from a traveller site, as well as countless stolen pets.

Not to mention that the initial intention may have been to steal the dog - but upon recognising James', or learning of her job, there may have been panic or anger.

- Blunt Force Trauma is a wide term.

In a similar vein, it's quite natural to assume the worst - and a lot of people are immediately leaning towards a frenzied attack, with mentions of bludgeoning or rocks.

For all the talk of weapons though, I think the most likely form of weapon would be something quite mundane: a simple Maglite style flashlight. Very inconspicuous to carry when walking around the woods, very sturdy and capable of delivering a heavy blow, and entirely legal. It would be quite plausible as something that James' may even have carried on her own person.

Although the impact of a fall after a punch or kick may appear like blunt force trauma, it does seem unlikely given the environment?

- The involvement of the Fire and Rescue Service after the discovery of the body feels overlooked.

I saw this mentioned in the initial posts, but never again. I'm not sure what purpose the presence of the fire brigade could've had. There are no obvious hazards in the area that the body was discovered.

- The involvement of the National Crime Agency feels overlooked.

Similarly, one of the previously linked news articles mentions Kent Police bringing in assistance from the NCA. That seems quite extreme - and if it was as mundane as asking for simple advice then it wouldn't be news worthy.
 
  • #304
As well as the Russell murders, there is also some other unsolved cases (I believe they are still unsolved) involving dog walkers & woodland :

Kate Bushell, Lyn Bryant, Helen Fleet, Julia Webb.

There’s also Billie-Jo Jenkins, a slightly different case but still unsolved I believe.

If Billie-Jo Jenkins was killed by a stranger, I find this attack very similar (if this is also a stranger attacker). Both very brief and deadly attacks with the attacker simply leaving.
 
  • #305
The involvement of the Fire and Rescue Service after the discovery of the body feels overlooked.

I saw this mentioned in the initial posts, but never again. I'm not sure what purpose the presence of the fire brigade could've had. There are no obvious hazards in the area that the body was discovered.

Fire and rescue almost certainly to assist with moving the body 300 metres to the nearest road.
 
  • #306
I wonder if cyclists also use the path JJ was found on. There are many walking trails where I live and during lockdown more cyclists than normal are on them. A neighbour was hit very hard by a cyclist who did not wait around. He ended up with a dislocated shoulder and a broken hip. We've had several pedestrians in Ontario killed by aggressive cyclists. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that this act was one of extreme carelessness where the perpetrator panicked and took off. England also has had its fair share of fatal pedestrian/cyclist collisions.

I also wonder why the dog didn't run away. A protracted physical attack would usually make a small dog run away rather than protect their owner. So was the dog waiting by JJ's body with the leash still in JJ's hand or did it return after the danger was over? Was Julia attacked without being aware of any danger? Perhaps from behind. Or was it someone coming toward her that didn't appear to pose a threat to her. Was she in the initial part of her walk or had she already turned around to head back home?

I don't see this murder as the result of violent dognapping. I don't see it as a random attack by a stranger, either. It seems personal to me. Judging by the amount of officers combing the area they must have an idea of the type of weapon used so maybe it's something manmade like a hammer or flashlight.

I wonder what this comment meant, bolded by me.

5 key revelations from police on day 3 of Julia James murder enquiry


"Her body was found at 4pm on April 27, with multiple witnesses notifying police to the discovery, her dog remaining at her side until officers arrived.

However, Richards stated that it was "not appropriate to get into the fine-grain details" of when Julia left her home or what she was wearing."
 
  • #307
Yes very small window of opportunity. In my opinion the attacker took Julia by surprise perhaps laying in wait and pouncing from behind a bush....because if there was any interaction prior and a fight ensued then the passersby might have heard voices or screams. They might have had a very near miss with the attacker.

Or she could have stopped for a brief chat with someone she knew and been completely unprepared for an attack.
 
  • #308
People who suffer with psychosis/schizophrenia are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.
And if they are violent the most likely person they will be violent towards is themself.

The assertion is discriminatory and offensive.

I wish the media/people in general would stop thinking every 'bad' thing was done by a 'psycho' it simply isn't true.

While I totally agree with you about stereotyping of people with any kind of mental illness, if this is a disorganised 'stranger' attack, it would seem likely that those are the attributes to look for. I was watching an episode of a documentary the other day about the origins of the FBI behavioural analysis unit, and in the case they were looking at those things were part of the profile they built for the killer. Just from things like a disorganized murderer, they then went on to build a profile of someone aged about 20 to 30 (or thereabouts, for example) and gave the reason being that someone older would have more likely been diagnosed and getting treatment, and the level of violence in that crime I think led them to believe it was someone younger and fitter, and from being disorganised and possibly in this psychosis they said unlikely to be holding down a job or a family. And the person they found was someone in their 20s who, when he was found several days later, was still wearing the same bloodied clothes they were wearing during the murder attack. That was a totally different case, the murders I think happened within people's homes. The murder weapons were taken from within the homes (knife rack in the kitchen), and the bodies had been left in situ.

So, while what you say is absolutely true, and we should not stereotype people with those diagnoses....sometimes a crime scene screams the diagnosis. For instance some murders of children by parents, you just 'know' that was probably behind it from descriptions of the murder scene, and then later on you hear that the parent had been having some delusional thinking in the weeks prior to the murder. It's such a tragic thing to happen.

My point is, that when police/FBI etc build those profiles, that isn't discrimination, that's just want comes out of the crime scene and their knowledge of such murders over thousands or more cases. And I don't think we can ignore that. I think it's better to remember that the killer is a single individual and does not represent others of the same race, religion, or mental health 'diagnosis' but only themselves, and in the case of someone experiencing a psychosis, only during the psychotic episode.
 
  • #309
Just caught up with this thread and there's a few thoughts that spring to mind.

- I personally wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the dognapping theory.

On the face of it it seems absurd that someone could try and steal a dog, find themselves murdering someone, and still not take the dog. For what it's worth I think this is plausible, and not just because the dog will have been chipped, but also because no one wants to get bitten by a dog and leave their blood at a crime scene. Jack Russells can be quite a handful when they want to be.

I've noticed that there's been a mod post about not stereotyping groups of people, so I'll tread very carefully, but a lot of dognappings revolve around groups who are involved with more serious crimes. Last year a raid at the other end of Kent (Orpington) saw weapons and drugs seized from a traveller site, as well as countless stolen pets.

Not to mention that the initial intention may have been to steal the dog - but upon recognising James', or learning of her job, there may have been panic or anger.

- Blunt Force Trauma is a wide term.

In a similar vein, it's quite natural to assume the worst - and a lot of people are immediately leaning towards a frenzied attack, with mentions of bludgeoning or rocks.

For all the talk of weapons though, I think the most likely form of weapon would be something quite mundane: a simple Maglite style flashlight. Very inconspicuous to carry when walking around the woods, very sturdy and capable of delivering a heavy blow, and entirely legal. It would be quite plausible as something that James' may even have carried on her own person.

Although the impact of a fall after a punch or kick may appear like blunt force trauma, it does seem unlikely given the environment?

- The involvement of the Fire and Rescue Service after the discovery of the body feels overlooked.

I saw this mentioned in the initial posts, but never again. I'm not sure what purpose the presence of the fire brigade could've had. There are no obvious hazards in the area that the body was discovered.

- The involvement of the National Crime Agency feels overlooked.

Similarly, one of the previously linked news articles mentions Kent Police bringing in assistance from the NCA. That seems quite extreme - and if it was as mundane as asking for simple advice then it wouldn't be news worthy.





Initially, I thought perhaps Julia was killed with a lethal blow or blows to the head. But I read that LE said where JJ was found was a very big crime scene. Not sure if that suggests that Julia fought valiantly for her life or that people who initially found her tried to give lifesaving measures that effectively destroyed evidence or that they are including adjacent fields as part of the crime scene where they are searching for the murder weapon.
 
  • #310
I hope to goodness that Michael STONE hasn’t been released. He was given a life sentence with a minimum of 25 years in 1995 early 1996 after murdering Lin and Meghan RUSSELL on a countryside path during the daytime and used an implement causing blunt force trauma leading to their deaths in Chillenden Kent only a few short miles from this location
God bless you Julia xx
RIP dear lady
Your tour of duty is now over and you can hang up your handcuffs and rest in peace. The thin blue line has just got thinner and you will be sadly missed x
Michael Stone is in still prison, but his conviction will very likely be quashed one day. The evidence against him is virtually non-existent.

Given the very close proximity of the attacks on Julia James and on the Russells, and of the strong similarities between them, I assume that the police are at least open-minded about the possibility of the same person being responsible for both.
 
  • #311
People get confused I think between psychosis and psychopath.
Someone suffering psychosis being mentally ill whereas a psychopath isn’t.
It’s psychopaths that tend to kill. Not those suffering with mental illness.

Here's some stats I found. Most who kill aren't mentally ill no, but this shows why it is a suggestion the killer could have been mentally ill.

11% of people convicted of homicide in the UK between 2005 and 2015 were mental health patients, most diagnosed with schizophrenia (compared to a population rate of schizophrenia of around 1%).

Sarah Markham: We have to learn from homicides committed by mental health patients - The BMJ
 
  • #312
Initially, I thought perhaps Julia was killed with a lethal blow or blows to the head. But I read that LE said where JJ was found was a very big crime scene. Not sure if that suggests that Julia fought valiantly for her life or that people who initially found her tried to give lifesaving measures that effectively destroyed evidence or that they are including adjacent fields as part of the crime scene where they are searching for the murder weapon.
My guess would be having no intelligence on where the killer came from or went next, which would involve every direction around the scene having to be examined for clues.
 
  • #313
Notwithstanding my earlier comments, I personally think the chaotic crime scene with the body left in plain sight points as much to a killer who knew they were about to be disturbed and needed to get away fast as to someone who is mentally disordered and doesn't know what they're doing.

My gut instinct with this case from the outset - and I realise gut instinct is virtually worthless unless perhaps you're an experienced LE investigator - has been that this began as an everyday male-on-female microaggression. I know some of the men on the thread find that concept offensive, but it's a real thing that nearly every woman puts up with on a regular basis. I feel that Julia was approached by someone who tried to harrass or intrude on her in some way, perhaps a flasher, and I think that she may have reacted to that - perhaps reflexively - in a way that sadly escalated matters. Perhaps she tried to photograph him with her phone. Perhaps she laughed. Perhaps the dog went for him and he kicked it and she lost her temper. Who knows.

We do know that some crimes are gateway crimes that can be part of an escalating pattern, and that flashing/indecent exposure is one of them, and we can infer from that that a perpetrator who escalates from that to sexual assault or murder is at some point going to go further than their history suggested they would - in other words, there will be a particular incident that with retrospect marks the point at which they escalated. I feel that this may turn out to be that event.

The circumstances - lone woman walking small dog, isolated spot with woodland cover - make this a plausible scenario. It's only the way it ended up that makes it remarkable. If she had gone home safe and sound and reported being flashed at, no one would have been very surprised imo.

Whether you regard that kind of perpetrator as mentally ill is an interesting debate. It's my view that most murderers are mentally unwell to some degree - in the sense that homicide isn't a 'normal' reaction to conflict for most of us. But I know lot of people reject that analysis as 'excusing' the actions of 'evil' people, which in turn is a narrative I can't myself get on board with. Escalating from not being a murderer to being a murderer might be a sign that a psychiatric disorder has gone undiagnosed, but might equally be a sign of tragically poor impulse control.

The real mystery, of course, is what happened to the perpetrator afterwards. I can see him seeing or hearing others near at hand (and there clearly were people nearby given how quickly she was found) and we might assume a fit, young, probably male attacker who could move fast and may well have known the area. So if the station CCTV reveals nothing, I think we would be looking at an overland escape. I don't know the area at all, but looking at it aerially I would think that the possibilities are almost endless.

Have appeals have been made for sightings of anyone in bloodstained clothing? I think I would be looking for that over quite a radius, but I also wouldn't underestimate how oblivious people can be.

As for the Chillenden connection, it was so long ago I really can't see it being the same perp. Even if there were to be a SK operating in the area over a long period, you would think that their MO would evolve over time with their profile (their age and agility if nothing else). And if it didn't, and their predilection for bludgeoning women walking dogs at 3pm on Tuesdays remained unchanged over time, where are all the other victims? It doesn't really make sense to me as a hypothesis, although it's quite a coincidence, I agree.

All speculative and JMO, of course.
 
  • #314
I agree with you that there has to be something wrong with someone to commit cold blooded murder.
No that they’re necessarily mentally unwell though
Psychopaths are cold and calculated. They know what they are doing and understand the consequences. The reason they are able to kill is because they have a complete lack of remorse. So they literally feel no guilt.
There is currently no cure or treatment for psychopaths.

<modsnip>


Notwithstanding my earlier comments, I personally think the chaotic crime scene with the body left in plain sight points as much to a killer who knew they were about to be disturbed and needed to get away fast as to someone who is mentally disordered and doesn't know what they're doing.

My gut instinct with this case from the outset - and I realise gut instinct is virtually worthless unless perhaps you're an experienced LE investigator - has been that this began as an everyday male-on-female microaggression. I know some of the men on the thread find that concept offensive, but it's a real thing that nearly every woman puts up with on a regular basis. I feel that Julia was approached by someone who tried to harrass or intrude on her in some way, perhaps a flasher, and I think that she may have reacted to that - perhaps reflexively - in a way that sadly escalated matters. Perhaps she tried to photograph him with her phone. Perhaps she laughed. Perhaps the dog went for him and he kicked it and she lost her temper. Who knows.

We do know that some crimes are gateway crimes that can be part of an escalating pattern, and that flashing/indecent exposure is one of them, and we can infer from that that a perpetrator who escalates from that to sexual assault or murder is at some point going to go further than their history suggested they would - in other words, there will be a particular incident that with retrospect marks the point at which they escalated. I feel that this may turn out to be that event.

The circumstances - lone woman walking small dog, isolated spot with woodland cover - make this a plausible scenario. It's only the way it ended up that makes it remarkable. If she had gone home safe and sound and reported being flashed at, no one would have been very surprised imo.

Whether you regard that kind of perpetrator as mentally ill is an interesting debate. It's my view that most murderers are mentally unwell to some degree - in the sense that homicide isn't a 'normal' reaction to conflict for most of us. But I know lot of people reject that analysis as 'excusing' the actions of 'evil' people, which in turn is a narrative I can't myself get on board with. Escalating from not being a murderer to being a murderer might be a sign that a psychiatric disorder has gone undiagnosed, but might equally be a sign of tragically poor impulse control.

The real mystery, of course, is what happened to the perpetrator afterwards. I can see him seeing or hearing others near at hand (and there clearly were people nearby given how quickly she was found) and we might assume a fit, young, probably male attacker who could move fast and may well have known the area. So if the station CCTV reveals nothing, I think we would be looking at an overland escape. I don't know the area at all, but looking at it aerially I would think that the possibilities are almost endless.

Have appeals have been made for sightings of anyone in bloodstained clothing? I think I would be looking for that over quite a radius, but I also wouldn't underestimate how oblivious people can be.

As for the Chillenden connection, it was so long ago I really can't see it being the same perp. Even if there were to be a SK operating in the area over a long period, you would think that their MO would evolve over time with their profile (their age and agility if nothing else). And if it didn't, and their predilection for bludgeoning women walking dogs at 3pm on Tuesdays remained unchanged over time, where are all the other victims? It doesn't really make sense to me as a hypothesis, although it's quite a coincidence, I agree.

All speculative and JMO, of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #315
PCSO Julia James's murderer 'left mobile phone at home to avoid detection' | Daily Mail Online


The killer of PCSO Julia James may have deliberately left their phone at home to avoid being traced as desperate police stopped cars in the hope of a breakthrough, it was revealed today.

A lack of GPS data close to where the mother-of-two was bludgeoned to death in a Kent village north of Dover suggests that her attacker is 'local' and a man, a source has claimed.

Mrs James was murdered eight days ago but no arrests have been made, with Britain's FBI, the National Crime Agency, brought in to help with the forensics search of the fields where she was found dead on Tuesday, April 27.
 
Last edited:
  • #316
  • #317
I think Julia's body being left on the path and not hidden could very possibly be because the killer knew how frequently the path was used and it was more important for them to get out of there very fast without being seen. Which in turn suggests someone who knew they might be recognised - a local. I'm not sure it is a disorganised characteristic.

Also the method of killing could be to knock out Julia very quickly, to reduce the chances of her screaming, escaping, defending herself and injuring her attacker in the process. She might have been trained in self-defence tactics which would reduce the killer's chances of success - so perhaps someone who knew her line of work, and a very premeditated attack.

Also using a blunt instrument (probably metal given the police use of metal detectors, so (imo) killer brought it to the scene) could be someone who didn't want to put their hands on her and leave trace evidence (which could be another reason for not moving her off the path), and a knife would probably give her time to scream, and would produce a more bloody scene, with transfer, suggesting knowledge of police crime detection procedure, rather than disorganisation.

I would expect the killer in that case not to have left the weapon behind.

So summing up, I think it's possible -

A killer with local knowledge, lives locally, targeted at Julia as opposed to any random woman out walking, premeditated, knowledge of police procedures, careful even though the scene looks disorganised. Also I would add if this is correct, the attacker knew her regular walk and was waiting for it.

JMO
 
Last edited:
  • #318
I’m sitting on my hands with this one!!

won’t be long til it’s known
 
  • #319
  • #320
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
166
Guests online
1,194
Total visitors
1,360

Forum statistics

Threads
632,442
Messages
18,626,570
Members
243,151
Latest member
MsCrystalKaye
Back
Top