GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[skibaboo]

I spent ages trying to work it out, I was even turning my laptop upside down. The cctv we can see cannot be from Sanctuary as the road is on the wrong side. The cctv must be from Gallus as their bar manager has the same name as the manager who showed the journalist their footage. It isn't Church St as I can't see any camera. There is a security camera on the Dumbarton Rd side of Gallus and the road markings match. The blur in the left hand corner could be from the canopy thing over the front door.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjtT1ipLUQsmUGMVjj9YxoA!2e0

AP told the police his car was parked on Church St but then again he told them she left his flat at 4am. Police said they walked towards Church St so maybe there isn't any proof they actually walked up it.

Unless we're talking about 2 different cameras I beg to differ, the road markings do not match

Gallus camera angle on streetview. Dumbarton Rd. Double lines on road

Still from the CCTV Single line on the road and markings for parking

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I spent ages trying to work it out, I was even turning my laptop upside down. The cctv we can see cannot be from Sanctuary as the road is on the wrong side. The cctv must be from Gallus as their bar manager has the same name as the manager who showed the journalist their footage. It isn't Church St as I can't see any camera. There is a security camera on the Dumbarton Rd side of Gallus and the road markings match. The blur in the left hand corner could be from the canopy thing over the front door.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjtT1ipLUQsmUGMVjj9YxoA!2e0

AP told the police his car was parked on Church St but then again he told them she left his flat at 4am. Police said they walked towards Church St so maybe there isn't any proof they actually walked up it.

I don't think it is from Gallus, Ironside. It's further along the road, have a look at "Rice & Noodle", there's the bin outside. And it's a single line kerb marking whereas outside Gallus it's doubles. The other thing that makes me think it's not Felicity's Gallus footage is that she says it's of Karen leaving the club looking happy. The footage we've seen doesn't show either of those things. I think we haven't seen Gallus footage yet. What do you reckon?

 

[skibaboo]

That is the angle of the camera, you can only see one line but they are double yellow lines. The colour quality of the cctv isn't great.

The big bins are not static, they are on wheels. There is one of these big bins on my street outside a business and it moves a few metres here and there on a daily basis. They are for commercial waste.

Yeah, the bin will have probably moved many times since Last August when the streetview was taken.

But my personal opinion is the CCTV is from Rice & Noodle. I think the glare came from the sign light next to the camera.

Streetview Link

 

[Ironside]

Unless we're talking about 2 different cameras I beg to differ, the road markings do not match
Single line on the road and markings for parking
]

It's the angle of the camera, the kerb blocks ones of the lines. The rest of the road markings match. The chances of two Felicitys being a manager of one of the businesses on a short stretch of road are very slim, it isn't that common a name.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Look at the breaks in the white lines on the 2 pictures Skibaboo posted above, they're are differently spaced, no sign of the junction. Then look at the markings outside R&N on street view, they're the same i.e. parking bay markings.

I think the journo WAS talking to Felicity from Gallus, I just think WE haven't seen that footage (of her looking happy etc).

 

[skibaboo]

Look at the breaks in the white lines on the 2 pictures Skibaboo posted above, they're are differently spaced, no sign of the junction. Then look at the markings outside R&N, they're the same.

I think the journo WAS talking to Felicity from Gallus, I just think WE haven't seen that footage (of her looking happy etc).

Agreed. The lines you see on the CCTV are for designated parking. There is no designated parking outside the Gallus, just double yellows as it is at the corner of the junction.

 

[Ironside]

In the cctv footage the black car seem to be parked way too close to the kerb. This is due to the angle of the camera the same way there is another yellow line we can't see.

 

[Tealgrove]

Based on reports of Karen's friends, they were concerned about her very quickly. I know that the CCTV show Karen and AP walking together and she doesn't seem to be under duress however, any ruse may have convinced Karen to go with him. I'm also guessing that AP was hanging around and they were concerned about him. They kept her glass with some contents still in it. They were worried about her drink from the onset. This tells me that things were going on in the club that we are not privy to.

Ted Bundy managed to get women to leave with him under the guise of helping him carry things while he pretended to have a broken arm or a broken leg.

So although appearances are that she left with him willingly I think we need to remember that perhaps she left willingly under the guise of a ruse. Her body language tells me she's cold perhaps but also defensive.

Karen's friends are adamant that she's not a drug user or a one night stand kind of girl and I believe them based on their early concern. They thought something was not right very quickly.

I think he was onto her....she left to use the restroom....he saw his chance to cut her away from her herd...convinced her to come and see something or help him with something and she went. It was over before she knew it.

I also think that this isn't the first time. I think he was working on technique.

Very very sad.

 

[Irishguy]

Reading the various reports in the Irish media this morning and putting it together it seems that AP left Sanctuary with Karen, he then allegedly hit her repeatedly with a spanner he got from his car, either where his car was parked or in the car or at the entrance to the park. He then went to the park with Karen where she was strangled and killed, parts of her clothing and personal items possibly jewelery were discovered by the search teams at this location. He then took her body back to his car while dumping her handbag in the bin at the entrance to the park.

He then put her body in the boot of the car and drove back to his apartment where he went to sleep leaving Karen in the boot, he then went to B&Q on Sunday morning where he purchased a barrel, he is reportedly captured on CCTV purchasing the barrel. He then goes ahead to the farm and puts the body in the barrel and fills it with chemicals. He then panics on Monday with the growing media coverage and the intense Police operations around Glasgow and returns to the farm, and attempts to burn the barrel with Karen in it, unclear if he was able to do this or not.

The papers made for difficult reading today,poor Karen just keep asking the question why did she leave with him.

 

[Ironside]

A lot of the "accounts from friends" have been taken from boards.ie and other irish forums and some have been pretty conflicting so I'd say they're just gossip rather than definite facts.

I really can't see how they would keep the glass with contents in it unless they handed it to bar staff to look after. You can't leave a club holding a glass, a taxi driver wouldn't let you in their vehicle with a glass so the chances of her friends getting the glass back to hill street are very slim.

 

[Cherwell]

Is this what you mean?

Link - The Independent

I'm not sure which flat in that block is AP's to be able to say that is his window. I hadn't noticed it before though, looks like a Halloween skeleton kind of thing. But that's eerie, makes me shudder.

That just looks like a shirt or dress hanging from the curtain rail to me. I often do this with a garment I want to dry quickly, as there are radiators under my windows.

 

[ninij9]

Oh come on, she clearly willingly went with him. The question is why. There is nothing even slightly 'one night standish' about the CCTV, if you're off for a bit of alone time there would be touching, hugging, kissing, giggling, there is nothing like that in the CCTV - why did she go with him? What made her leave? It was not to have sex with that man and although I thought it didn't make sense before I saw CCTV it most certainly doesn't now I have. They were pointedly going somewhere for some reason. Why?

I agree. Which is why I suggested a scenario where he played on her concern for friends, or some such pretense. The simplest explanation is usually the one, however everything I am reading about this young ladies character says she was not going with him for a bit of fun. So roofies make a lot of sense.

 

[ninij9]

I tell you my thoughts:
I assume, that A knew that Karen was there with her friends.
When Karen came out of the toilet, A might have caught her in front of the toilet door and told her, one of her friends had been spiked, would be near his vehicle now and would need Karen's help. Then both Karen and A hastily went in this direction (Karen without her coat).
When Karen realized that A's information was wrong, she was certainly angry and swore at him. He would have liked to take her to his home, but she was upset because of his lie and of course refused. Surely he had been often rebuffed by women; this time the frustration overcame him and he struck his spanner or he choked Karen. - ONLY my THOUGHTS, how it could have been. :thinking:

Almost exactly the scenario I posted yesterday. The way she was walking, arms crossed, just speaks to me about body language. She does not look in the least bit amorous. She looks more like she's going to "see" whatever he is taking her to. Its just a gut feeling for me. I'm not good with maps and links here, but I get a feel for situations. JMO.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Dumbarton Rd looks like the sort of road that would be quite busy on a Saturday night, can any locals confirm? I think his car was parked on that road otherwise surely CCTV further up would have picked them up.

 

[Ironside]

Based on the accounts from people on this thread who have been spiked if she was roofied she would be falling about the place. If she was spiked I think it was some kind of party drug like mdma which can make you less inhibited about wandering about with strangers.

 

[Ironside]

Dumbarton Rd looks like the sort of road that would be quite busy on a Saturday night, can any locals confirm? I think his car was parked on that road otherwise surely CCTV further up would have picked them up.

I think all the pubs and restaurants on dumbarton road would be closed by midnight but there would be people walking home and taxis driving down it. It is a busy studenty area.

I really don't think Gallus have separate footage, I think it is the camera angle that is misleading. Gallus may be able to zoom in on their footage and can see facial expressions that we can't. I'd love to just go into Gallus and ask but no point as they can't say anything now it is contempt of court.

 

[Cherwell]

I'd love to just go into Gallus and ask but no point as they can't say anything now it is contempt of court.

I don't see any harm in confirming whether that clip is or is not from their CCTV. Why not go ahead and ask, the worst that can happen is they won't tell you. Just say it's to settle an argument, which is basically the truth.

 

[Irishguy]

Reports that CCTV captured shows Karen following AP walking behind him, could he have been walking quickly luring her with a fake story,

 

[ninij9]

That just looks like a shirt or dress hanging from the curtain rail to me. I often do this with a garment I want to dry quickly, as there are radiators under my windows.

With skeletal hands attached? Looks like a Halloween decoration to me.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I don't see any harm in confirming whether that clip is or is not from their CCTV. Why not go ahead and ask, the worst that can happen is they won't tell you. Just say it's to settle an argument, which is basically the truth.

Another thing which makes me think it's not Gallus footage is that on the video at 2.12 you can see the actual monitor, some of the writing is in Chinese as if the system has been set up in that language. The R&N place is owned by Chinese people.

Not that it really matters! I'm more interested in why Church St was mentioned as wherever the CCTV is from it doesn't look like they went up there at all.