GUILTY UK - Katie Rough, 7, killed by teen, Woodthorpe, York, 10 Jan 2017

[Inthedetails]

Only Katie has been named, and no other names, I follow the Judges order. I think the family are not fit to raise children, hence my phrase..Children raising children. No law broken here!

Welcome to newcomers. Websleuths (WS) is a great place to discuss cases.

One characteristic of WS is that we are victim friendly. We don't bash victims here. The parents are victims.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm getting a strong "premeditated" vibe here.....
Maybe not --- but just seems like the time and place were possibly chosen beforehand.
Again , I wonder if Katie was 'lured' by the promise of a treat, watching older kids play soccer or whatever, or the perp took advantage of a scenario that presented itself ?
But this feels like a crime that might have been simmering in someone's mind for a while ?

There are probably some people who carry a knife for their own protection --especially if they live in an unsafe area..... but the place where this happened appears to be tidy and middle class ; and NOT an area where one might expect a criminal to jump on them at any given moment !
So, did the perp always have a knife handy-- or just that horrible day ?

Since this crime happened , I've not read anywhere that this particular town was a high crime area --but rather a community where people felt safe letting their kids play unsupervised.
:moo:

I appreciate your point of view here and on other cases.

I'm not really getting a vibe from the case. If anything, I think perhaps the perp was "caught" by Katie doing something she didn't want to be seen doing, and on impulse lashed out. But, I honestly am not tied strongly to that idea and don't have any idea what the killer could have been doing.

It's tempting to think the timing of the wedding is connected, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

jmopinion, subject to change.

 

[pinklilies]

If the 15 year old lived in the area, she would know all these little ginnels and alleys and where they lead to and from. She may not know the names of the actual streets but I'm sure she will be familiar with them.

 

[DaveShu]

public domain records? surely we're allowed link them, if they exist, they are public

You'd have to be a bit daft to do it whether you think it's alright or not, hence why I haven't, and why I didn't post what I really thought in the Corrie McKeague thread - speaking of which - let me go and be obtuse over there - I do think I have a real idea on what happened there...

 

[webdavid49]

Unimportant info.

 

[SaberTooth]

any know if there's any particular reason someone might appear via video link?

"b) there is significant evidence of the defendant having mental health issues, evidenced from the fact s/he was currently under mental health treatment or is, or has been, subject to a determination under the Mental Health Act;

In Kent the Eligibility/Suitability Criteria have been abolished and all cases will be put onto the virtual court, and this is being extended to include youth cases."

IMO it could be due to her age but also the fact she is unde the care of a MHT.



REF; http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/advice/practice-notes/virtual-courts/

 

[Deleted member 113679]

I'm not really getting a vibe from the case. If anything, I think perhaps the perp was "caught" by Katie doing something she didn't want to be seen doing, and on impulse lashed out.

I did think about that and came up with a scenario where the knife was already in the accused hands for another reason, I often smuggled a knife out of the house to build a den with my friends. But I was a boy doing boys stuff and it was always daylight.

My guess is that she was assaulted where she was found or somewhere further into the dark field and maybe ran towards the path and fell where she was found. In both cases Katie is in an unusual location for a 7 year old given the time / sunset etc even if she went there willingilngly. It is probably the nearest place from Katies home with some privacy to commit a crime like that.

 

[LozDa]

I really hope we can keep this thread open.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's hope it's cleaned up again though

 

[webdavid49]

What has been written that is so wrong?

 

[DatelineFan]

Only Katie has been named, and no other names, I follow the Judges order. I think the family are not fit to raise children, hence my phrase..Children raising children. No law broken here!

Huh? Even if a 15 year old was babysitting her or walking her to a friend's house, that's far from RAISING her. Sure, some families make inappropriate decisions, but we don't have anywhere near enough facts to state something like this in this specific case.

 

[LietKynes]

The cache owners name matches up with the Dad's initials and age .... and there are a couple of photos in the profile.

RSBM

Well THAT is an interesting development. It's sad because you cannot watch your kids 24/7. Most of the time you let them be with people you feel you can trust !

:moo:

 

[JerricaBenton]

any know if there's any particular reason someone might appear via video link?

Her age.

 

[Rosegold68]

I think the geocache info might be important. If it's the families 'cache' then Katie may have been checking on it. There seems to be recent activity

Is it located near where her body was found?

 

[bessie]

I have seen it on MSM with all the faces pixellated out except for Katie and the parents. But I can't remember which papers now.

No link, no post. Until someone posts a link with the photo, the discussion is nixed.

 

[Deleted member 113679]

I think the geocache info might be important. If it's the families 'cache' then Katie may have been checking on it. There seems to be recent activity

Is it located near where her body was found?

And as far as I can tell, the photos of the geocache family don't correspond with anybody allegedly involved with the case. Innocent party.

 

[JerricaBenton]

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/special_measures/#a03 special measures such as video link are put in place for vulnerable people, such as under 16 and suffering mental illness.

 

[JerricaBenton]

This thread is getting a bit uncomfortable now

 

[nothinonyou]

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/special_measures/#a03 special measures such as video link are put in place for vulnerable people, such as under 16 and suffering mental illness.

think it might have just been a formality because of media interest, it was only going to take a few minutes and she wouldn't even say anything. And I remember Nathan Matthews once appeared via video link for an early hearing

 

[skibaboo]

Given that the topic of ‘who is the accused’ is off limits, the motives are also, so I’d like to try to get known events straight without discussing who or why, can you help with this?

The police are covering a broad period of 3-5pm for witnesses. The 999 call at about 4:50 pm from Katie’s mum suggested Katie was last seen around 4 pm. The crime scene is about 10-15 mins walk from where Katie lives and the roads listed by police in the witness appeal are all on the most direct route to the crime scene from Katie's home. The route does not pass the nearest school so I assume Katie left her home around 4 pm and I guess she arrived at the field around 4:15 pm.

The events are totally unknown between arriving at the field until 4:37 pm when the first 999 call was made, supposedly by the accused. The events that resulted in Katie’s injuries and death occurred during those the approx. 20 mins. Nothing is known of this time period.

In the time around 4:30 pm – 5:00 pm it seems a dog walker may have discovered Katie, neighbours assisted, then the police, the mother, ambulance crews and father turn up at the scene before she was taken to the hospital.

It is possible Katie received her injuries in a different place to where she was found but it sounds like that wouldn't have been more than a minute away given the severity.

I speculate that the accused had a weapon that seems to have been taken to the crime scene. Being at the crime scene, a dark pathway and unlit field just after sunset would be odd without say walking a dog or having another reason to be there. There are shops in the opposite direction about the same distance, going to the field at that time seems to indicate some forward planning of events.

Can anyone help refute, elaborate or correct all the assumptions I made above based on what I have read in this thread and MSM?

Everything you have stated sounds about right to me, from what we know. One other thing that is known is the weapon was a stanley knife. To elaborate on that I know police were combing the field and surroundings, and using metal detectors. Pic 1 of 15 at link here Was the knife tossed I wonder? Or are they looking for something else?

 

[Spellbound]

Websleuths mods are wonderful but, I often wish we had one who was UK based to mod the UK threads so that they might be around more during regular UK hours. That way 'rule breakers and trouble makers' could be dealt with swiftly.

I don't think there is a mod following any thread all the time, but checking frequently. Best way is to alert a mod by clicking the red triangle below the post you question and ask a mod to check the thread/post for appropriatness. It stays anonymous, and is better than bickering or risking closing a thresd down.
Hope that helps.