GUILTY UK - Katie Rough, 7, killed by teen, Woodthorpe, York, 10 Jan 2017

[katydid23]

I think Katie died in a certain house, and was driven to the field in a car. The truth will come out that it wasn't the 15 year old that did it.

Why was the 15 yr old out in the field at that time? And if that is true, that someone else did it, why wouldn't the 15 yr old say so to the police? Wouldn't there be evidence of that version of events? Because the police were on to the scene and to the 15 yr old immediately. If someone else had been responsible, wouldn't she have told the police and they would have gone to check it out?

I think they have the right party locked up.

 

[Deleted member 113679]

I think Katie died in a certain house, and was driven to the field in a car. The truth will come out that it wasn't the 15 year old that did it.

There were no appeals for sightings of vehicles or any other people than the two described, I think it is as simple as it sounds in terms of time and place; motivation / accident is what needs determining IMO.


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[Spellbound]

Yeah and at York Minster too. That isn't something you see too often. I think I might go

:hug: That would be nice of you, Skibs .... but difficult. Let us know if you need some extra support.

 

[Spellbound]

I think Katie died in a certain house, and was driven to the field in a car. The truth will come out that it wasn't the 15 year old that did it.

It does not appear to have parking in the fieid, so a car would likely have been noticed, or even tire prints. Why would someone dump a body from a car if they had to carry it through the pathway to that spot? That just does not make sense to me. But JMO

 

[ladycadaver]

I think Katie died in a certain house, and was driven to the field in a car. The truth will come out that it wasn't the 15 year old that did it.

No.

Her body was found right down the bottom of the alley that leads to the field (basically in the field). Furthermore, the entrance starts at the end of a small cul-de-sac and the fence of the alley is practically touching one of the houses either side.

There is no way a car could have turned around, reversed up, removed the little girl and walked to the end to place her body specifically right at the end there and nobody noticed it happening.

Here is an aerial view for prosperity sake.

Never mind the fact that the 15 year old confessed, was found in possession of the weapon and called 999 herself.

 

[Ellmau]

Yeah and at York Minster too. That isn't something you see too often. I think I might go

Wasn't the Archbishop helping the family?

 

[Spellbound]

<modsnip>
Katie is the one who had the "selective mutism". That does not mean she could not speak at all, but that she had difficulty in certain situations where she was not comfortable for a variety of possible reasons.

More info: http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/SelectiveMutism/

 

[JerricaBenton]

I don't think there is a 3rd party involved at all, no evidence at to support that theory.

 

[webdavid49]

Selective mutism is common amongst Autistic kids.

 

[Spellbound]

Selective mutism is common amongst Autistic kids.

link? I have an autistic relative and he does not choose when he speaks or not ... his ability for language is just not there, no matter how hard he may try. Some do better than others.

You may want to do some google searches on selective mutism and autism, if you believe that. There is a big difference. In general, the difference being autism can be limited in language ability, while selective mutism persons can and do speak normally, but generally only when they are in comfortable surroundings.

If you are truly interested, here are a couple links that compare the two:

http://www.selectivemutismfoundation.org/resourcestreatmentresearch/mutism-or-autism

http://www.donnawilliams.net/selectivemutism.0.html

 

[Confusion]

link? I have an autistic relative and he does not choose when he speaks or not ... his ability for language is just not there, no matter how hard he may try. Some do better than others.

You may want to do some google searches on selective mutism and autism, if you believe that. There is a big difference. In general, the difference being autism can be limited in language ability, while selective mutism persons can and do speak normally, but generally only when they are in comfortable surroundings.

If you are truly interested, here are a couple links that compare the two:

http://www.selectivemutismfoundation.org/resourcestreatmentresearch/mutism-or-autism

http://www.donnawilliams.net/selectivemutism.0.html

There's a broad spectrum of autism. My son is autistic (high functioning/Asperger's), and he suffered from selective mutism for years. It wasn't actually caused by his autism, but it was from the anxiety he has that goes with it. He is so afraid of saying the wrong thing because he has trouble reading body language and social cues, that he got to the point where he couldn't speak at all around people he didn't know well. If pressed to respond, he'd become catatonic and couldn't even move.

 

[flourish]

In my experience (note, disclaimer, this isn't a clinical opinion), it's also sometimes presented with children who have experienced significant trauma... Like (totally hypothetical) experiencing then viewing the aftermath of a natural disaster, car accident, etc., discovering corpses of loved ones, acts of violence perpetrated upon them etc.

Then there's more short term kinda type. English language learning children in preschool /early grades sometimes only speak outside of school. Then slowly to the other children and adults who also speak their language, then the English speaking teachers was the progression I noticed and is logical.

Then there's your kids with speech impediment(s) or super painfully shy.... I assume selective mutism has clinical criterion. I'm too tired to go hunting though...

Anyway, it's difficult not getting very much information about this case.

 

[Confusion]

In my experience (note, disclaimer, this isn't a clinical opinion), it's also sometimes presented with children who have experienced significant trauma... Like (totally hypothetical) experiencing then viewing the aftermath of a natural disaster, car accident, etc., discovering corpses of loved ones, acts of violence perpetrated upon them etc.

Then there's more short term kinda type. English language learning children in preschool /early grades sometimes only speak outside of school. Then slowly to the other children and adults who also speak their language, then the English speaking teachers was the progression I noticed and is logical.

Then there's your kids with speech impediment(s) or super painfully shy.... I assume selective mutism has clinical criterion. I'm too tired to go hunting though...

Anyway, it's difficult not getting very much information about this case.

Extreme shyness (severe social phobia) is probably the biggest part of it in many/most cases. It isn't that the person chooses (selects) not to speak, it's that they are unable to speak under certain (select) circumstances.

 

[webdavid49]

Err..I am Autistic myself, and do understand Autism quite well, but thanks for the info

 

[Spellbound]

Err..I am Autistic myself, and do understand Autism quite well, but thanks for the info

You're welcome. But the info is not about autism, rather it explains how social mutism differs. Was worth my learning more, since I had no experience or knowledge of SM before this case.

 

[Whippet]

I think Katie died in a certain house, and was driven to the field in a car. The truth will come out that it wasn't the 15 year old that did it.

All the facts of th case presented so far indicate that Katie was with an older girl (we guess it was the 15 year old relative from the way that individual has now been removed/edited out from family photos). The older girl was in a distressed state and people living near the scene where Katie was found, took her in where the girl asked to phone the police and she told them what she had done to Katie.

I see no reason to believe any other scenario at this stage other than a 15 year old girl, probably related to Katie by marriage of other relatives was responsible for the attack name subsequent death of Katie.

What is debatable is whether the teen meant to kill or just harm Katie.

 

[Maxo]

Hi. I've just joined this thread as there's a few questions I have.

Firstly as previously mentioned, I think we are in no doubt as to the who has been charged and of their relationship to Katie.

On Fb the mother of the deceased has just updated a family group cover photo. This photo was previously visible with the individual on the left still present. Now this has been edited to exclude this member.

The question I have is why the legal teams/police are not advising the family not to do this as it only adds to the speculation.

Like another poster has said, we will never know the real reason behind this. The press will never release the accused's relationship with the deceased and the public, as with the Spalding murders, will be none the wiser.

What I don't understand is how can this be in the public interest?

When the 2 Spalding Murderers were found guilty and sentenced, the press led the public into believing it was a random, violent attack by 2 teenagers with a "grudge". Local people know different. Surely then the wider public needs to know that it was a deeply personal crime and that they are not at risk!

I fear the same will happen here. The public will be led by the media into a blind panic about feral youth when the real motive will be hidden from us.

 

[mrazda71]

Hi. I've just joined this thread as there's a few questions I have.

Firstly as previously mentioned, I think we are in no doubt as to the who has been charged and of their relationship to Katie.

On Fb the mother of the deceased has just updated a family group cover photo. This photo was previously visible with the individual on the left still present. Now this has been edited to exclude this member.

The question I have is why the legal teams/police are not advising the family not to do this as it only adds to the speculation.

Like another poster has said, we will never know the real reason behind this. The press will never release the accused's relationship with the deceased and the public, as with the Spalding murders, will be none the wiser.

What I don't understand is how can this be in the public interest?

When the 2 Spalding Murderers were found guilty and sentenced, the press led the public into believing it was a random, violent attack by 2 teenagers with a "grudge". Local people know different. Surely then the wider public needs to know that it was a deeply personal crime and that they are not at risk!

I fear the same will happen here. The public will be led by the media into a blind panic about feral youth when the real motive will be hidden from us.

I didn't know much about the Spalding case, though I do now!

If nothing can be reported then that's how it should be but, sadly there will always be trashy tabloids embellishing the story to get the headlines.

 

[Maxo]

I didn't know much about the Spalding case, though I do now!

If nothing can be reported then that's how it should be but, sadly there will always be trashy tabloids embellishing the story to get the headlines.

There's a 9 page thread on it on this site.

The point I'm making is that once a conviction has been made and sentenced passed, why are the case details hidden as in the Spalding Murderers? In whose interest does it serve? The teenagers who will get new identities once they are deemed fit enough to be released? It certainly does not serve the relatives. Elizabeth Edward's eldest daughter has been very scathing on social media that she is gagged from revealing the names of the two that murdered her sister and Mother.

 

[Cherwell]

It's because where the perpetrator(s) is/are minors, they may not be identified. That's the rules. Disclosing any relationship to the victim would identify them.