UK UK - Keith Bennett, 12, Longsight, Manchester, 16 June 1964

  • #201
the answer as i read it involves ians ocd planning, some logic,some knowledge, the weather and some evidence.....the case is so high profile and so much resources thrown at it now its deemed its all been done.one problem that is overlooked is that the investigations were at different points and different levels of evidence were available.some things from early investigations were taken as no longer any use where as they may be.ian played games. some of his planning was flawed but it shows how he planned and the method is used latter on. the first police search ignored simple logic and instead went for where was easy.
 
  • #202
if anyone is interested ill give u the first thing i found that as far as i can find out was never worked out. it was ignored as at the time one name was used to connect ian to a missing child, the child found buried so not looked at. back then the police were a bit arguing with each other as different force areas were involved. brady was held in one station but the evidence in another force area station so there was a clash of personalities. its a bit like the sheriff starting the case then the state police getting involved then the feds and all wanting control
anyway when they arrested ian they found a note book and in it was a "doodle". a seemingly random list of names,actors ect but in it was john kilbrides name. this linked him to the murder and that case was closed. now what ive learnt with ian is nothing is just random..the doodle as well u have to remember is just that, like when ur on the phone and u doodle on the desk pad.ians links are cryptic but to him they make sense. i think with this he was just amusing himself playing a word game. what it does is give u an insight to his thinking..people are expecting some sort of written confession or plan,he didnt work like that.
so the doodle.the two drawn guys are charactures from a film called hell is a city which is about a gangster who buries a body on the moors above manchester. down the right hand side is a list of names and words. now remember i said to him they make sense so the first is frank williams..this is actually j frank williams who had a song last kiss...then is john kilbride..the victim. next is alec guiness. his film was the prisoner..next is jack polish, well one version of jack in polish is janus. next is j thomson..this is an artist that was around saddleworth and greenfield..next is marl..this is a shale or rock found under peat and peat moors...next is makler..this in polish(and german) means broker or arrange....so now what u have is last kiss john kilbride the prisoner janus saddleworth rock under peat arranged
told u its cryptic and remember its what makes sense to him and he links to. the name in the middle is i gill his manager where he worked..as far as i could find this decryption was never done and yes as far as a location for keith it doesnt give one all it does it show how he thought and believe me he repeats this later on.(the other side starts to decrypt but i didnt finish it)..its sort of if u want to learn french u dont start by writing a novel u learn the basics..i did one of the letters that he sent to a criminal psychologist around 2010 and she kept to herself as she wanted fame for working them out but never did. she then got 10 mins fame by coming out to the gutter press in defeat. done one,the cryptic reference is to the 3 witches in mac beth. act 1 scene 1 where they talk of meeting on the heath in the rain with macbeth(scottish king) its a parody of ian myra ect on the moor ( it was raining the night keith went missing). such letters are round one of his game.. u find the clue and let him know then u get to round 2. every one was expecting him to write a letter with the exact location of keith..who are these"experts" bunch of muppets if u ask me.
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  • #203
this is one location never found..one thing i found interesting is to the right of myras head is some writing. begins with an S as far as i can work out its in ians handwriting. now it could be something added later by police ect and this is just a copy with that on...there is a copy of this photo online that has very faint added writing from the newspaper who used it.
when i asked those who would talk including keiths brother he said there isnt any writing???. people keep telling me things i find arnt there.very odd.
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  • #204
if u understand the method u can find the others..."clues"? work it out for yourself...be warned he leads u a merry dance. when alan turing cracked enigma he found a mistake the germans made...they all make mistakes u just have to find it.....the answer is either where he intended keith to be or where he suggests and thats no where he said...have fun
 
  • #205
when ive mentioned the janus link from before his arrest i got shot down in flames as it suggested a link to the god janus which i must admit was my first thought and that got into the realms of weird things.....i soon realised the name janus he used and related to is from a saddist/🤬🤬🤬🤬 magazine that was out at the time..when he came to write his book he used the name but in the god sense as the gates of janus..read up urselfs on janus the god it would take too much typing. im sure he did this to hide the name he liked in another form...
one of the other easy "cryptic" ones is in gates of janus....look for the chapter where hes having a rant and then he gives a list of names he says he never became(page 421)...it starts with mick Jagger (seems a give away as out of keeping with the other names) ill give u mick jagger...thats greenfeild the last village as u drive onto the moor,micks dad comes from greenfield...next is harrison...he produced the fanzine janus...then reiss...police,, unsolved crime... you can work the rest out...its the same as the early doodle....
i did have 2 versions of it mostly the same just one clue suggested a location but it doesnt make sense really..the other version seems just a reflection on his actions
oh the last one he refers to "🤬🤬🤬🤬 sucker blues" is also known as schoolboy blues.....
another thing...in the doodle towards the bottom is ians address..18 westmorland street but hes put bradford and he lived manchester...there is that address in bradford,well actually its skipton which is a lot closer to manchester than bradford city but still has a bradford post code...i will look up who lived there in 1964..he was known to come over that way...
 
  • #206
it is of course all rubbish i just made a few things fit from hundreds of options:happydance: theres no secret codes or clues...blimy they had gchq look and if they didnt find anything then theres nothing there....he didnt need to have any codes just make people believe there was and they all spend decades looking for one....hundreds of police have studied this case and got no further in 30 years and they have all the evidence....the photos have been examined by experts and still nothing..the "rocks" are still unfound but in 50 years they could have become overgrown or just be in such a wierd location no one ever goes there..
think this is one thats now gona be nothing more than dusty cardboard boxes in a store room....
 
  • #207
how about some of the photos brought to life in colour...
.....
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these are the black and white photos from the time turned into colour....
 

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  • #208
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this is the colourised version of the one above,,its a location that is still unknown and has myra in a similar pose to the one over john kilbrides grave
 

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  • #209
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the ever famous one of myra...somehow doesnt look as sinister in colour
 

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  • #210
having studied the photo and other locations my thought now is the location could be a quarry..the old quarries around the moors have a similar if not the same method to stabilise the rock faces. its not uncommon for them to quarry a particular piece of stone out then leave the surrounding rock alone..the quarried rock is used as support maybe explaining the different colour..ive put a couple pics of a quarry on the moor where its shown how they prop up the workings and the lighter coloured stone..
now heres a thing,,on the doodle the 2 figures are from a film called hell is a city..about villains who dump a body on the moors above manchester,part of it is filmed in and around a disused quarry not to far from saddleworth...last night i looked at the doodle again(having given up cos every one thinks im either mad or its pointless) and i decrypted a bit more of it...i was looking to see if infact he put 3 murders down,one been john kilbride on the right,pauline reade on the left and keith bennett in the middle....ive said it before and people laugh but u have to remember its a doodle,never intended to be seen so the links are what brady related too..in reality he could have used the name of the milkman if it reminded him of a location or action..
so why important,,well u learn how he worked this then other early writings and then the later stuff starts to make some sense..all ive found is people laughing it off..the usual "experts have looked" blah blah blah...by thinking at the moment is that the location is a attempt to confuse anyone looking at the photos..he had this crazy idea, no doubt from a film,that u can hide a truth in lies, he outwardly said he taught myra that..im starting to think in his long term disclosures hes having a dig at the experts by telling them how its done and they cant see it as its spread over years in little bits...if it wasnt for the fact hes a murdering paedophile id admire him...he can lead u on a merry dance very simply its good...the more the experts got involved the more they were determined to break him and they failed....at first i thought well its been 50+years and all the experts have done this to death but when i was told in no uncertain terms by an experts spokesman that the photo is beyound doubt a natural rock face i looked and if thats natural im jack the ripper...so no i dont accept experts opinions all the time and this case has errors..
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this is just to show the quarry used its own dressed stone to support the quarry and its a lighter colour...
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just to show they took stone from strange places then proped up the rockface....
 

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  • #211
Keith's case is one of the most distressing I have encountered. I've seen the torment these two monsters caused Keith's late mum Winnie. Tragically I don't think Keith will be found. I just hope hell exists.
 
  • #212
you know if it wasnt the fact that keith should go home now and now they are making an arse of the problem i would sit back and laugh...finding rocks,things that are fixed to the earth,isnt impossible. one other thought that did occur is that it is a civil engineering work..ie the banking/ side of a road ect thats been rebuilt or strengthened. at the time of the murders on saddleworth where john kibride was taken there was a steep drop..later a carpark was built my guess is to reiforce the side of the road...maybe the rocks are under this thats why they cant be seen???
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look in the background u can see theres no carpark
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by the time of the search for pauline reade the carpark had appeared...

wonder if theyd mind if i dug it up:thinking: actually gona try the local historic society and see if theres any photos pre 1965
 

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  • #213
Keith's case is one of the most distressing I have encountered. I've seen the torment these two monsters caused Keith's late mum Winnie. Tragically I don't think Keith will be found. I just hope hell exists.

its a problem in that unless say the location of the photo can be found which will class as new evidence then maybe the ground explored, any theory is just that..there are a lot of egos to battle against...
problem wont be solved if people give up..maybe its working backwards but proving areas wrong is one way but no one will finance that..i thought there must be retired professionals that can spare some time to start at the beginning again...then all we need is things like to borrow a cadaver dog when its needed and a geophysics man on board..maddie mccann has had 11 million thrown at her search, all this needs is free time from the right people..what it needs is a high profile backer...anyone got richard bransons number???
 
  • #214
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is this a location..shot is blurred as taken from screenshot..the ground level has dropped but thats not surprising given the location..the only bit hats doesnt seem quiet right are the what look like 2 boulders on the light coloured slab but over the years moss ect alters the look of a the rocks...a part of the rockface has fallen and im told since this shot more has collapsed so identifying a yes or no seems hard...BUT..and why its weird..this location is where some of the film hell is a city was shot. remember the doodle,the 2 guys on it?..the location is 5 miles or so from saddleworth on the other side of the moor.
 

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  • #215
the "doodle" seems to be wholly about the disposal of john kilbride.. i had a thought that it may have been 3 of the victims. john down the right,keith in the middle and pauline on the left. gill in the middle was ians manager where he worked and the only relationship i can put is gill went to the same gun club as myra..does that relate to shooting a victim????most if not all the doodle is related..it was ignored before as far as i can tell as random names and words but its far from that.
 
  • #216
i watched a video of a part of the last investigation undertaken and in that the police boss said theyve had every sort of specialist involved,infact he joked that if u have "ology" in ur description then its been done..looks like ian takes the answer to his grave having run everyone in circles..there is hope that the documents his solicitor is holding or documents held by others may have an answer but i believe they would be no more use than anything that is known already.i do believe he played a game of hinting as to the location,switching between wanting someone to be a match for his game and then reversing that and covering up the clues. it created so much garbage that people got bored and lost interest. i believe his last trip to the moor was to revitalise the game , a bit like ted bundy offering to show where victims were but had used up all his chances.He as old and the psyc meds were taking their toll,i fell a sense of loosing control had hit him.He did some odd things in his later years,adding sections to his book that really didnt serve any purpose other than to add intrigue and reinforcing it by having his friend dr keigthley reinforce it by yet again publicising the fact in his book. ian liked word/song association,some of his teasers have to be interpreted but they are nothing more than what he did in the doodle and repeated in gates of janus and dr keigthleys book.
Ian was a planner,he loved plans and lists.its known he planned the murder sites for days if not weeks and options for events not going right. he seemed to like to stay to the same area,one he loved and knew. although the moors are large the area the 3 known sites are is confined in such that suitable locations are limited.the 3 known burial sites all follow the same pattern.easy parking.easy walking access on to the site.reletivly short distance from the road. out of site once at the burial site. if he followed the pattern,which he seemed to then it follows that keith,the 3rd victim,will be in such a location.
on the moor in the area he chose there are limited sites that meet this criteria. what i found odd was that after the first murder,done in an ideal location, the next one didnt use the next best site,instead used one that whilst been ok,ignored much better sites further up the moor road.this just endorses the fact he wanted them in a certain area. my gut feeling for this is the site which was logicaly next best wasnt at the time due to the gasline works. when it came to murder no 3 ,keith, the question came did he now deem this site usable..the photo of him stood on the rock overlooking the site suggests so.it took time but it seems these 2 photos were taken after john kilbrides death and before keiths ,infact a month before keiths..the one of myra i believe also points in the direction of what could have been the alternative.
i belive on the night he did use this site but did not bury keith where he first intended,ie in line with his site,but due to some reason,maybe the rain and wet ground buried him off to the left..of course after his arrest this is the location that the 4th victim,lessley,was found. this threw all search for keith in later years off the scent...i belive on the evening they were going to burry lessley,who they murdered at their home,the site they had planned,the one myra hints towards in the photo,they couldnt reach due to the large amount of snow that had fallen on the moor the previous day, so he used the best accessible location from the road,one with hard path to walk up despite the snow.i believe some things made the burial a hurried job so he went to where he had planned on the site for the previous burial,in a gully as such...when he was disposing of keith i believe that is when a motorcycle police officer stopped to ask myra if all was ok, an act that spooked him and my guess is thats why the next murder was done in the house..myra never denied the incident with the policeman,it would have been easier to, instead she tried to alter the circumstances to confuse the incident as to when it happened. it wouldnt have been with lessley as the weather conditions alone would have grounded any police motorcycles been out,especially on a snow covered moor.
ian was forced to use one area twice..the site myra hints towards is another good location,infact prob the only one left that met the criteria..
ian seems to leave hints and clues and my belief is he made a big mistake in one disclosure that he made too obvious,maybe after no one was listening anymore,then after realised and did all he could to distract from it.the disclosure was one he made sure his friend got into the papers then again it was in the book that dr keigthley published..i think ian asked him to put it in after his death, to have a laugh it was ignored before.
it is widely thought that ian wanted to go back on the moor to visit the grave one last time and that would make sense.but he knew that the experts would have guessed that as well so i believe he sacrificed that act for a few reasons..one if he had gone to the grave site it would have been in such an area the game would have been up, it was far more pleasure for him that the game was on again and anyway he could visit an area he liked and have a day out,been close to the murder sites by just been on the moor.
ian loved to hide things in plain site among seemingly innocent things. in all his"perfect" murders something went wrong...he planned and had rules but broke them himself...when he went to bury john he hadnt checked how hard the ground was to did.pauline the previous was in peat and a doddle to dig,john was in shale/earth and hard so ended up a shallow grave..he will have learnt after that to go back to easy digging.i believe with keith he nearly got caught with the police motorcyclist turning up.with lessley the weather nearly beat him,he misjudged the mount of snow as none at his house but the moors had a lot...he had to hold onto the body for a day..the last one eddy,well he just lost the plot and that sealed his downfall.
the map by myra and shinny brook all seem to keep interest up and just a distraction..hoe grain ect never made sense as its so different to the other 3 sites, i could understand it if he was a random sort of guy but he wasnt he was ocd with plans and notes ect.....
all he had left was the memories of keith and the pleasure he got from the pain of others.whilst he was alive he manipulated everyone to how he wanted it but the one thing he couldnt resist was the thrill of the game..he loved chess. he couldnt resist the introduction of a chance keith may be found,controlling it as he wanted...his book may have some super secret code but i more believe ,as he dropped clues,that it has to be read in a different interpretation. he uses quotes from books,novels,poems ect..one he uses is the little prince..a classic book that to a child is a wonderful adventure but to an adult can be a book on morals and life..the whole case is one of interpretation of the clues,they are for the most indirect...
one thing i did do was read the various accounts both ian and myra gave over the years and from what others say they said and i have a feeling keith was dead before they reached the moor or just after they arrived. ive a feeling he was killed in the back of the pick up,maybe to subdue him.
end of the day it will now be a case that ends up as dusty boxes in a store room..the police have exhausted their evidence and to be fair they have spent a lot of money and world experts time...my one desire would be to see ians notebook,the one with the doodle in. the doodle tells a lot about johns location wat else did ian leave that hasnt been recognised??
 
  • #217
its funny.i thought all along that ian was telling clues.he led people to belie there was ciphers and apart from simple cryptic puzzles ive found i aint good enough for deeper problems..what does hit u like a brick in the face is his annoyance at what people cant see or in fact dismiss as garbage.He realised that he could be like the boy that cried wolf.Ive seen enough in his writings and quotes to see now all along he has hinted where keith is..last night i reread some of his book and in one part he ranted on and on..a small part he openly told the reader how to look
I was writing about the photo of Lesley
She’s taken second place now
He’s been telling you. It’s all there and you’re too ****ing self-impressed with
spotting his own ego that you won’t ****ing read it right
It is
all intensely about plans. And what you do with plans when they don’t work is
ask for help
he writes in the third person but trips into himself as he rants....the simple version of this small out take is lessly was the second to be in the location..you have everything u need already .recognise the plan for lessley went wrong which is why 2 bodies are in the same local..every one whoes looked at this case assumes the bodies are each in a different location and indeed he intended that but the weather beat him..
now its just annoying that people dont see the story..theres so much but people dont understand...:tantrum:
 
  • #218
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well this looks like the rock/slab..it is natural formation.round it are some formations that look so man made but there not..it has the same right hand top corner missing.the land height has gone up due to rock falls..its the right size,colour and a location i expected......and no ones interested..they all say need to know but when u say they dont seem interested..dont know where else ur gona find one the same size colour and a corner missing??? i give up..pointless task..dead case
 

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  • #219
its funny,some years ago 2 psychics said they had info and the police took them seriously..one thing they said was keith would indicate the location with something yellow..the crazy info that i think i see leads to one place...in that location is one solitary tree.theres no trees on that part of the moor yet there there is one...it has yellow buds...foolish but odd..
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  • #220
funny ive confused my self as i read a part of bradys book but a section not written by him.even so it has the same thoughts as to how to interperate the evidence.as i see it ian was one who wanted his victims in one area.he went out his way with the 4th to put her up there,it was winter but he waited a day for the roads to be plowed. there are dozens of places he could have use but he made sure he was up there.he was a planner and he liked the area he had studied.from some reading i think there is a photograph that in its self doesnt seem important but connected with an area its the one ian wanted destroyed.
 

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