UK UK - Kevin Hicks, 16, Croydon, 2 Mar 1986

[THX]

Thanks again for replying!

One thing that I have a hard time believing is that Kevin lied about needing to get eggs and chocolate, but really went out to meet someone. Because either way, it was late and dark, and Kevin was only expected to be gone for about 5 - 10 minutes. It would've been a bit obvious if he'd lied and been somewhere else, as he'd presumably still have to come home with eggs and chocolate. He also left his keys behind, so he was expecting to not be locked out. So I have a hard time believing that he went out cruising in a local park or to meet a specific person.

I guess it just doesn't sit well with me that the general assumption about the case, which I've seen again and again, is that the last thing Kevin ever did was lie to his family, and sneak off to commit some shady outdoor gay sexual acts with older man, end up murdered and no body ever being found.

I often wonder if his remains are buried in any of the parks nearby, if his last sighting was correct (which I'm personally not sure about) at 10pm on the night he went missing, he was walking in the direction of Ashburton Park, which he could've cut through to get home. Maybe he stumbled across something walking through there? (Which still leaves an hour and a bit unaccounted for, if that was indeed him).

Sorry for all the replies, but just to reply to the bit here where you say:

"I guess it just doesn't sit well with me that the general assumption about the case, which I've seen again and again, is that the last thing Kevin ever did was lie to his family, and sneak off to commit some shady outdoor gay sexual acts with older man, end up murdered and no body ever being found."

Firstly, Kevin wouldn't have known it was the last thing he was saying to his family. He didn't know he might be in danger, and wasn't making a death bed confession. As discussed, it was hardly unusual back then, or indeed now, for teenagers to hide from their parents what they were doing.

Secondly, we know from studies such as those cited in the IICSA Inquiry that when under 18s go missing, it is overwhelmingly because of something to do with sex. So, perhaps it is only looking at probabilities, although as I think I've been at pains to say in various posts throughout this whole thread that there was so much going on in the local area that literally anything could have happened to Kevin. With regard to potentially an older man grooming him, what we also now know is that sexual abuse of teenagers is also overwhelmingly carried out by people quite near them in age. It's very possible that if indeed Kevin was being groomed, it was by someone who was at most 21 - 22 years of age. For example, the man who was convicted in 1999 for grooming teenagers in the local parks would have been 21 when Kevin went missing. Not relevant to Kevin's case, but there's a shocking statistic that the average age of those who sexually abuse younger kids is just 14 years old.

You mention "shady outdoor gay sexual acts" but sadly that is what society pushed gay people into to back then. The legal age of consent for a male to have sex with another male was 21, it could only legally occur in a 'private residence', you could still be arrested for even smiling at another man under the 'importuning' laws, gay bars were regularly raided by Police, blackmail was rife and and you could be sacked from your job if you were gay. That's not even to mention how virulently homophobic the average person was back then. So you can see how it was all pushed into the shadows.

I don't know if you have managed to see it, but the BBC documentary series about the gay serial killer Denis Nilsen looks into how homophobia in society in those days enabled Nilsen to get away with it all. Many of his victims' families seemed more upset by the fact that their sons may have been gay than the fact that they'd been murdered. It's really recommended viewing and gives a real insight into the aggressive social attitudes towards gay people in the 1980s and how it enabled a lot of bad things. It may or may not be relevant to Kevin's case, but it does give a very good feeling for what society was like when he disappeared. The link to the first episode is in the link below if you're interested:

The Nilsen Files - Series 1: Episode 1

As Nilsen’s crimes are discovered, the truth about his victims reveals prejudice and multiple missed opportunities to catch a murderous predator.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BrutishGoose32]

Sorry for all the replies, but just to reply to the bit here where you say:

"I guess it just doesn't sit well with me that the general assumption about the case, which I've seen again and again, is that the last thing Kevin ever did was lie to his family, and sneak off to commit some shady outdoor gay sexual acts with older man, end up murdered and no body ever being found."

Firstly, Kevin wouldn't have known it was the last thing he was saying to his family. He didn't know he might be in danger, and wasn't making a death bed confession. As discussed, it was hardly unusual back then, or indeed now, for teenagers to hide from their parents what they were doing.

Secondly, we know from studies such as those cited in the IICSA Inquiry that when under 18s go missing, it is overwhelmingly because of something to do with sex. So, perhaps it is only looking at probabilities, although as I think I've been at pains to say in various posts throughout this whole thread that there was so much going on in the local area that literally anything could have happened to Kevin. With regard to potentially an older man grooming him, what we also now know is that sexual abuse of teenagers is also overwhelmingly carried out by people quite near them in age. It's very possible that if indeed Kevin was being groomed, it was by someone who was at most 21 - 22 years of age. For example, the man who was convicted in 1999 for grooming teenagers in the local parks would have been 21 when Kevin went missing. Not relevant to Kevin's case, but there's a shocking statistic that the average age of those who sexually abuse younger kids is just 14 years old.

You mention "shady outdoor gay sexual acts" but sadly that is what society pushed gay people into to back then. The legal age of consent for a male to have sex with another male was 21, it could only legally occur in a 'private residence', you could still be arrested for even smiling at another man under the 'importuning' laws, gay bars were regularly raided by Police, blackmail was rife and and you could be sacked from your job if you were gay. That's not even to mention how virulently homophobic the average person was back then. So you can see how it was all pushed into the shadows.

I don't know if you have managed to see it, but the BBC documentary series about the gay serial killer Denis Nilsen looks into how homophobia in society in those days enabled Nilsen to get away with it all. Many of his victims' families seemed more upset by the fact that their sons may have been gay than the fact that they'd been murdered. It's really recommended viewing and gives a real insight into the aggressive social attitudes towards gay people in the 1980s and how it enabled a lot of bad things. It may or may not be relevant to Kevin's case, but it does give a very good feeling for what society was like when he disappeared. The link to the first episode is in the link below if you're interested:

The Nilsen Files - Series 1: Episode 1

As Nilsen’s crimes are discovered, the truth about his victims reveals prejudice and multiple missed opportunities to catch a murderous predator.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just to clarify on a couple of things.

Of course, I know that Kevin wouldn't have been aware this was the last thing he'd say to his family. I'm meaning more about the general feeling afterwards. I've read a lot of "he must've lied" or "he must've been gay" or "he must've been into something dodgy". It's just a lot of assumptions that Kevin was doing things that were deceptive or illegal, pretty much based on nothing. It was initially said that Kevin kept himself to himself, and rarely went out (as said in a BBC Crimewatch segment at the time). So my comment about it not sitting well with me comes from that. He wasn't known to be gay, a criminal, or liar, so the assumptions that he must have been doing something like that, and it led to his disappearance is what doesn't sit well with me. Kevin was 16, and still a child when he meant missing.

Also, I'm also a gay man. But I was born in 1991, so there was no shade from me in my comment towards gay men doing things like that in 80s, when being gay wasn't as straight-forward. Unless of course, it involved predatory or illegal behaviour, as mentioned. I really appreciate the insight you've given me on how things were for gay men back then. But again, the conclusion that Kevin was gay is based on nothing, and I think this clouds the direction of people's theories and suggestions somewhat.

 

[BrutishGoose32]

Sorry, his home was further over to the West of where he was last seen, not East. Addiscombe Recreation Ground was to the South West rather than South East.

I was looking at Google Earth and plotting out the locations of the key points in Kevin's disappearance. I was also looking at the death of Reece Collins, which happened in 1985. Obviously, I'm not the first person to wonder if there is some connection, as I had seen a lengthy Reddit topic about it before. But, I was shocked at just how close to each other the two boys lived, especially when plotted on a map, there's 0.84 miles between the two houses. Is it just pure coincidence, given the nature of the area?

 

[GreyPhantom]

I was looking at Google Earth and plotting out the locations of the key points in Kevin's disappearance. I was also looking at the death of Reece Collins, which happened in 1985. Obviously, I'm not the first person to wonder if there is some connection, as I had seen a lengthy Reddit topic about it before. But, I was shocked at just how close to each other the two boys lived, especially when plotted on a map, there's 0.84 miles between the two houses. Is it just pure coincidence, given the nature of the area?

View attachment 636085

It's been long thought that they are connected depending on who you believe

 

[BrutishGoose32]

It's been long thought that they are connected depending on who you believe

I've read a bit about Reece Collins, the way his death was initially ruled as suicide by misadventure, and that weird self gratification angle it was ruled as. There's a big reddit post with alot of speculative information about a dodgy football coach called Derek.

I don't think it was a suicide at all, but nobody seems to be looking into it.

 

[GreyPhantom]

I've read a bit about Reece Collins, the way his death was initially ruled as suicide by misadventure, and that weird self gratification angle it was ruled as. There's a big reddit post with alot of speculative information about a dodgy football coach called Derek.

I don't think it was a suicide at all, but nobody seems to be looking into it.

Yup you got it. That post might be the break as much as people hate that it references TS.

 

[BrutishGoose32]

Yup you got it. That post might be the break as much as people hate that it references TS.

Yeah, I fully believe everything in that post as true. I don't know how thoroughly it's been checked out though by police. I don't even think it has been at all.

 

[GreyPhantom]

Yeah, I fully believe everything in that post as true. I don't know how thoroughly it's been checked out though by police. I don't even think it has been at all.

Apparently it's been presented to them many times.

 

[THX]

Just to clarify on a couple of things.

Of course, I know that Kevin wouldn't have been aware this was the last thing he'd say to his family. I'm meaning more about the general feeling afterwards. I've read a lot of "he must've lied" or "he must've been gay" or "he must've been into something dodgy". It's just a lot of assumptions that Kevin was doing things that were deceptive or illegal, pretty much based on nothing. It was initially said that Kevin kept himself to himself, and rarely went out (as said in a BBC Crimewatch segment at the time). So my comment about it not sitting well with me comes from that. He wasn't known to be gay, a criminal, or liar, so the assumptions that he must have been doing something like that, and it led to his disappearance is what doesn't sit well with me. Kevin was 16, and still a child when he meant missing.

Also, I'm also a gay man. But I was born in 1991, so there was no shade from me in my comment towards gay men doing things like that in 80s, when being gay wasn't as straight-forward. Unless of course, it involved predatory or illegal behaviour, as mentioned. I really appreciate the insight you've given me on how things were for gay men back then. But again, the conclusion that Kevin was gay is based on nothing, and I think this clouds the direction of people's theories and suggestions somewhat.

It all really comes back to what the police have said. They specifically said that they believed he was being groomed and that his trip to the shop that evening was a ruse to go and meet someone. That's pretty specific stuff for the police to say - which I think probably indicates that they know an awful lot more about what was going on than they have made public. That's often the case with missing people.

The next question is how would the police know these things to make them so sure. My guess is that people have come forward over the years and told them things about what was happening in the local area, and possibly some of them may have known things about Kevin that his family didn't.

There is an interesting parallel with the case of 15 year old Lee Boxell who went missing in 1988 nearby. His mother had said that she did not believe he went to the youth club known as the shed, it was well known for teenagers drinking and smoking and getting up to mischief, and in her view he wasn't that type of lad. However, his friends came forward and said that he did go to the shed, and he wasn't quite the type of goody two shoes his mother thought he was. That's so often the case with teenagers. They let off steam away from their parents and can often end up inadvertently putting themselves in dangerous positions.

Another interesting thing is how perceptions of 16 year olds have changed since the 1980s. Kevin's sister talked about how when his disappearance was reported to the police, they weren't urgent and said he was "16 and an adult". That's very much how 16 year olds were viewed back then. Most kids left school at 16 and went straight into a full time job in the adult world. Kevin had been applying for jobs and he'd already had a Saturday job. He was just a couple of months from leaving school and starting full time work.

It was definitely reported that Kevin didn't leave the house much; however, it was also reported that the night before he disappeared, he'd been at the local ice rink and then spent all the Sunday morning in the park. It was also reported that he used to take regular walks in Shirley Hills.ovvuosuly he also left the house regularly to go to school, and to go to his Saturday job

There are some people who think that the answer to Kevin's disappearance lies at his Saturday job at the local co-op. I suppose that is possible, whether it was someone who worked there who was grooming him, or someone who'd come into the shop. I may have mentioned in previous posts how a friend of mine who is from Croydon told me how he worked in a shoe shop in central Croydon when he was 15 and had that incident with a man who came into the shop.

 

[THX]

I was looking at Google Earth and plotting out the locations of the key points in Kevin's disappearance. I was also looking at the death of Reece Collins, which happened in 1985. Obviously, I'm not the first person to wonder if there is some connection, as I had seen a lengthy Reddit topic about it before. But, I was shocked at just how close to each other the two boys lived, especially when plotted on a map, there's 0.84 miles between the two houses. Is it just pure coincidence, given the nature of the area?

View attachment 636085

Croydon really was the wild west back then. So much crime and violence happening. I don't know if you've seen the gangster film "The Long Good Friday" which was made in the early 80s and set in south London? Apparently it wasn't too far away from what south London was like back then.

Also in the area, we had the absolutely notorious murder of the private detective Daniel Morgan in 1987. It revealed absolutely monumental levels of police corruption in the area, drug smuggling and violence.

The Reece Collins is a very strange one, and of course there was also the disappearnce of Lee Boxell in 1988 about half an hour's drive away, although it seems that Lee's case has been unofficially solved. A very strong suspect for that murder.

 

[THX]

Just to clarify on a couple of things.

Of course, I know that Kevin wouldn't have been aware this was the last thing he'd say to his family. I'm meaning more about the general feeling afterwards. I've read a lot of "he must've lied" or "he must've been gay" or "he must've been into something dodgy". It's just a lot of assumptions that Kevin was doing things that were deceptive or illegal, pretty much based on nothing. It was initially said that Kevin kept himself to himself, and rarely went out (as said in a BBC Crimewatch segment at the time). So my comment about it not sitting well with me comes from that. He wasn't known to be gay, a criminal, or liar, so the assumptions that he must have been doing something like that, and it led to his disappearance is what doesn't sit well with me. Kevin was 16, and still a child when he meant missing.

Also, I'm also a gay man. But I was born in 1991, so there was no shade from me in my comment towards gay men doing things like that in 80s, when being gay wasn't as straight-forward. Unless of course, it involved predatory or illegal behaviour, as mentioned. I really appreciate the insight you've given me on how things were for gay men back then. But again, the conclusion that Kevin was gay is based on nothing, and I think this clouds the direction of people's theories and suggestions somewhat.

I just saw article that you may find of interest as a fellow gay man. It's a series of photos by the American photographer Arthur Tress, who started cruising for men in Central Park in New York from the age of 15 onwards in the 1970s. He ended up taking a lot of photos of what he saw. Some of the commentary he gave to the photos is very illustrative of what the gay men who were doing that had gone through. I've copied and pasted some of the quotes below:

Arthur Tress first of all talked about why he has gone cruising in Central Park from the age of 15 and for many years after:

"The series [of photos] was informed by almost 15 years of Tress’s own experiences starting at the age of 15 – sometimes thrilling, sometimes un-nourishing – of semi-anonymous sex as well as its relentless pursuit. ‘The layers of guilt and fear of exposure led to a certain kind of behaviour.'

That's so typical of gay men back then - many sought out very fleeting sexual encounters through cruising, because getting to know someone could be very dangerous. There was always the risk of blackmail and being "outed" and that basically would have made your life unliveable. You could still lose your job for being gay, and many people did lose their job after being outed.

Of one photo of a man sitting on a gate and looking nervous, he said:

"A young man’s body language [in the photo] expresses a certain paranoid anxiety. Perhaps this is caused by society’s condemnation of the gay lifestyle making for a diminished sense of self-esteem and psychological trauma. That mirrored my own stressed feelings."

Of another photo, it said:

"He saw these photographs not just as documentation but as a kind of queer still life, part allegory, part dream. Of this image [of a man sitting with his arms crossed across his chest], Tress writes: ‘A sensitive young man posed for me, lying across a rustic park bench, with his arms crossed as if to protect himself from perhaps much of the harsh brutality and rejection he had experienced living so far as a gay person’

The article with the photos and commentary is at the link below:

‘I knew these photos wouldn’t be published for decades’: gay cruising in New York – in pictures

In 1969, Arthur Tress started making images at an overgrown corner of Central Park known as the Ramble – the beginning of an archive of a transitional period in queer culture

www.theguardian.com

 

[THX]

Just to clarify on a couple of things.

Of course, I know that Kevin wouldn't have been aware this was the last thing he'd say to his family. I'm meaning more about the general feeling afterwards. I've read a lot of "he must've lied" or "he must've been gay" or "he must've been into something dodgy". It's just a lot of assumptions that Kevin was doing things that were deceptive or illegal, pretty much based on nothing. It was initially said that Kevin kept himself to himself, and rarely went out (as said in a BBC Crimewatch segment at the time). So my comment about it not sitting well with me comes from that. He wasn't known to be gay, a criminal, or liar, so the assumptions that he must have been doing something like that, and it led to his disappearance is what doesn't sit well with me. Kevin was 16, and still a child when he meant missing.

Also, I'm also a gay man. But I was born in 1991, so there was no shade from me in my comment towards gay men doing things like that in 80s, when being gay wasn't as straight-forward. Unless of course, it involved predatory or illegal behaviour, as mentioned. I really appreciate the insight you've given me on how things were for gay men back then. But again, the conclusion that Kevin was gay is based on nothing, and I think this clouds the direction of people's theories and suggestions somewhat.

Sorry for yet another reply - another thing crossed my mind about why I think it's likely that the Police are pretty certain when they said that Kevin was being groomed, and that his trip out was a ruse to meet someone, and that is the 2007 case of Claudia Lawrence. I don't know if you're familiar with that case? It caused a huge storm.

Claudia was a single 35 year old woman who went missing in York in 2007. She was from quite a posh background. Her father was a lawyer and her mother had been involved in local politics. When Claudia went missing, the police released a statement that they believed that Claudia had been having a number of relationships over the years with certain men, that neither her family nor friends knew about. This led to a huge tabloid storm, where people from the local community came forward and appeared in articles in the likes of the Daily Mail, saying that Claudia was allegedly a home wrecker who'd been sleeping with married men, a number of whom had dodgy criminal connections. There were also people saying that she'd allegedly appeared on a sex tape that had been circulating among a number of men who were regulars at the pub she frequented.

It all caused a huge storm, with some people saying that what the Police had done was terrible, because those people believed that once you start revealing things about a person's private life like that, a lot of people start victim blaming and saying that what they were doing was terrible, so the victim deserved what they got, and amongst other things it makes the case harder to crack because of that. However, that is not to say that Kevin would have potentially been doing anything wrong whatsoever. If what they say is correct and he didn't tell his family the truth about where he was going that night, he would just have been doing what pretty much all teenagers have done since the dawn of time, trying to become a more independent person moving toward the cusp of adulthood and establishing a private life for himself.

Claudia Lawrence's parents had gone through a very bitter divorce and interestingly, they took opposite sides of the argument. Her mother said that she did not believe that any of these things were true, and the Claudia she knew wasn't like that. Her father, however, said that the Police needed to release all of the information to the public, as it was the only way that they were ever going to discover what happened to Claudia.

The end result of it all was that, ever since, the Police have become exceptionally reluctant to discuss information about a victim's private life if there is any chance that some people might start victim blaming. The Claudia Lawrence case happened in 2007, and the Police only released the statement that they thought Kevin was being groomed and had gone to meet somebody that night etc. in 2016. They also said that they believe that Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving the house, although whoever did it may not have meant to do it. I think in the climate that the Police have worked under since the Claudia Lawrence case, about being very wary of releasing potential details of someone's personal life like that, it makes me think that the Police are relatively certain of what happened to Kevin, and that they released the information only as a kind of bid to get the case back in the press again after so many years.

Just also reflecting on how differently 16 year olds were viewed back in the 1980s. Back then at the age of 16 you could legally get married, buy and smoke tobacco, gamble, and you could join the army aged just 15. As I say, most kids left school at 16 and went straight into full time work. If you were one of the younger ones in your school year, that would happen at 15. You could also appear in pornography aged just 16. A 16 year old Samantha Fox (and other girls of that age) used to regularly appear topless on "Page 3" of newspapers like the Sun. As late as 1994, the Sport on Sunday ran a "countdown" for a girl to turn 16 so they could legally show her topless in their paper on her 16th birthday. It was only some years later that the law was changed to raise the age to 18. One of the relatively few things you couldn't legally do aged 16 back then was be male and have sex with another male - the age of legal consent for males to have sex with another male was 21, whereas for everyone else it was 16.

 

[BrutishGoose32]

Sorry for yet another reply - another thing crossed my mind about why I think it's likely that the Police are pretty certain when they said that Kevin was being groomed, and that his trip out was a ruse to meet someone, and that is the 2007 case of Claudia Lawrence. I don't know if you're familiar with that case? It caused a huge storm.

Claudia was a single 35 year old woman who went missing in York in 2007. She was from quite a posh background. Her father was a lawyer and her mother had been involved in local politics. When Claudia went missing, the police released a statement that they believed that Claudia had been having a number of relationships over the years with certain men, that neither her family nor friends knew about. This led to a huge tabloid storm, where people from the local community came forward and appeared in articles in the likes of the Daily Mail, saying that Claudia was allegedly a home wrecker who'd been sleeping with married men, a number of whom had dodgy criminal connections. There were also people saying that she'd allegedly appeared on a sex tape that had been circulating among a number of men who were regulars at the pub she frequented.

It all caused a huge storm, with some people saying that what the Police had done was terrible, because those people believed that once you start revealing things about a person's private life like that, a lot of people start victim blaming and saying that what they were doing was terrible, so the victim deserved what they got, and amongst other things it makes the case harder to crack because of that. However, that is not to say that Kevin would have potentially been doing anything wrong whatsoever. If what they say is correct and he didn't tell his family the truth about where he was going that night, he would just have been doing what pretty much all teenagers have done since the dawn of time, trying to become a more independent person moving toward the cusp of adulthood and establishing a private life for himself.

Claudia Lawrence's parents had gone through a very bitter divorce and interestingly, they took opposite sides of the argument. Her mother said that she did not believe that any of these things were true, and the Claudia she knew wasn't like that. Her father, however, said that the Police needed to release all of the information to the public, as it was the only way that they were ever going to discover what happened to Claudia.

The end result of it all was that, ever since, the Police have become exceptionally reluctant to discuss information about a victim's private life if there is any chance that some people might start victim blaming. The Claudia Lawrence case happened in 2007, and the Police only released the statement that they thought Kevin was being groomed and had gone to meet somebody that night etc. in 2016. They also said that they believe that Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving the house, although whoever did it may not have meant to do it. I think in the climate that the Police have worked under since the Claudia Lawrence case, about being very wary of releasing potential details of someone's personal life like that, it makes me think that the Police are relatively certain of what happened to Kevin, and that they released the information only as a kind of bid to get the case back in the press again after so many years.

Just also reflecting on how differently 16 year olds were viewed back in the 1980s. Back then at the age of 16 you could legally get married, buy and smoke tobacco, gamble, and you could join the army aged just 15. As I say, most kids left school at 16 and went straight into full time work. If you were one of the younger ones in your school year, that would happen at 15. You could also appear in pornography aged just 16. A 16 year old Samantha Fox (and other girls of that age) used to regularly appear topless on "Page 3" of newspapers like the Sun. As late as 1994, the Sport on Sunday ran a "countdown" for a girl to turn 16 so they could legally show her topless in their paper on her 16th birthday. It was only some years later that the law was changed to raise the age to 18. One of the relatively few things you couldn't legally do aged 16 back then was be male and have sex with another male - the age of legal consent for males to have sex with another male was 21, whereas for everyone else it was 16.

I remember the Claudia Lawrence case, that's another sad one where there's been too few answers and developments over the years. As for the newspaper speculation about her at the time relating to her private life. That's a case of victim blaming and sensationalism to sell more newspapers, regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not. Also, it's obviously so much easier to do when it involves a woman going missing.

I feel like if there was more to tell about Kevin's case, that would trigger some movement towards getting answers, then surely this year would be the time to release more information as it's the 40th Anniversary of his disappearance this year (Yesterday was Kevin's 56th Birthday, and Alex posted a touching tribute to him online).

I'm also inclined to believe Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving home (I wonder if the "within a couple of hours" part that Police have mentioned is due to the supposed sighting of Kevin at 10pm, outside The Cricketers Pub, suggesting that he could've been alive and well until then.)

I've read through Newspaper archives that extensive searches have taken place around the time and in the time since, which brings me to my question. Do we know exactly where was searched and how thoroughly it was searched?

I've posted a few key locations, all roughly within a mile of where Kevin lived and was last seen that night back in 1986. I've used a Google Earth view from 2003, as that's as close to the time of Kevin's disappearance I can get.

As you can see, there's many areas of grassland nearby to where Kevin lived, no doubt some of these were used by gay men as "cruising grounds" that I do not personally think it is fair to assume Kevin would've visited. At least not without any evidence to support that line of thought. So I do wonder which of there places were searched at the time and how thoroughly.

As this case is similar to the cases of Reece Collins, Jason Swift and Vishal Mehrotra, who were all boys who went missing and were later found buried/disposed of in woodland, I wonder if that's where Kevin's remains are hidden.

Ashburton Park - A short distance (0.11 miles) from Kevin's house, I believe this is the park he visited with his dog (I think she was called Blue?) the Sunday he went missing, and to play with his remote control racing car.

Brickfields Meadow - A good distance further north of where Kevin lived but offers some dense woodland cover, even if it's very close to residential area.

Long Lane Wood - About 0.82 miles away from Kevin's home but as you can see, it's a very densely wooded area. It would provide good coverage even in winter for a burial/disposal site.

There's plenty of other places like this nearby too, but just to keep my post a reasonable length, I've only mentioned these three for now. I'm just wondering if anyone else feels these are viable spots for Kevin's remains to be, and if anyone knows how thoroughly and when these areas were searched.

 

[THX]

I remember the Claudia Lawrence case, that's another sad one where there's been too few answers and developments over the years. As for the newspaper speculation about her at the time relating to her private life. That's a case of victim blaming and sensationalism to sell more newspapers, regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not. Also, it's obviously so much easier to do when it involves a woman going missing.

I feel like if there was more to tell about Kevin's case, that would trigger some movement towards getting answers, then surely this year would be the time to release more information as it's the 40th Anniversary of his disappearance this year (Yesterday was Kevin's 56th Birthday, and Alex posted a touching tribute to him online).

I'm also inclined to believe Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving home (I wonder if the "within a couple of hours" part that Police have mentioned is due to the supposed sighting of Kevin at 10pm, outside The Cricketers Pub, suggesting that he could've been alive and well until then.)

I've read through Newspaper archives that extensive searches have taken place around the time and in the time since, which brings me to my question. Do we know exactly where was searched and how thoroughly it was searched?

I've posted a few key locations, all roughly within a mile of where Kevin lived and was last seen that night back in 1986. I've used a Google Earth view from 2003, as that's as close to the time of Kevin's disappearance I can get.

As you can see, there's many areas of grassland nearby to where Kevin lived, no doubt some of these were used by gay men as "cruising grounds" that I do not personally think it is fair to assume Kevin would've visited. At least not without any evidence to support that line of thought. So I do wonder which of there places were searched at the time and how thoroughly.

As this case is similar to the cases of Reece Collins, Jason Swift and Vishal Mehrotra, who were all boys who went missing and were later found buried/disposed of in woodland, I wonder if that's where Kevin's remains are hidden.

Ashburton Park - A short distance (0.11 miles) from Kevin's house, I believe this is the park he visited with his dog (I think she was called Blue?) the Sunday he went missing, and to play with his remote control racing car.

View attachment 643255

Brickfields Meadow - A good distance further north of where Kevin lived but offers some dense woodland cover, even if it's very close to residential area.

View attachment 643256

Long Lane Wood - About 0.82 miles away from Kevin's home but as you can see, it's a very densely wooded area. It would provide good coverage even in winter for a burial/disposal site.

View attachment 643254

There's plenty of other places like this nearby too, but just to keep my post a reasonable length, I've only mentioned these three for now. I'm just wondering if anyone else feels these are viable spots for Kevin's remains to be, and if anyone knows how thoroughly and when these areas were searched.

From what I saw in the newspaper archives, I'm only aware for sure that Shirley Hills was searched. I believe it was a "fingertip" search which is pretty thorough. Basically involves various police officers sitting on the ground and ground through the grass with their fingers, looking for any evidence. There's also a really heartbreaking article in one of the papers where Kevin's grandad was searching through Shirley Hills. I believe they searched Shirley Hills first as Kevin was known to go for walks there.

There are so many things with this case that it makes it incredibly difficult to solve. Not only were there a billion different things going on in the area (quite serious drugs, very high levels of violence including gangs attacking teenage lads and others people, sex offenders galore, a lot of things going on in the parks, massive police corruption) but also the area is surrounded by a huge amount of sprawling greenspace. There were so many places where Kevin's body could have been disposed of, including in water.

There have been so many cases over the years where bodies have been found many years later, including this one in the link below of a man who went missing in 1967 and his body was found in 2023 on farmland during construction work. I suspect something may sadly happen with Kevin in years to come. One of the very sad things about the case below is that the relatives of the missing man said they had been driving past the field he was found in pretty much every day for many years.

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-08-16/suspects-identified-in-1967-murder-mystery

I do hope that the police say some more for the 40th anniversary. It's so sad that Kevin's case has never had the kind of attention that it deserved.

The original investigation in 1986 seemed to have drawn a complete blank, although they found a lad in nearby Thornton Heath who looked so much like Kevin that they made him provide his passport to formally identify himself. That must have been very sad for the family. Imagine if they had seen that lad on the street. I get the strong impression though that the investigation in the 1980s was not of a high quality - as was very often the case back then. They just didn't take the disappearnce of male youths seriously and missing persons investigations in general were often bungled. When Lee Boxell went missing in 1988, his investigation too was apparently a real mess.

 

[THX]

I remember the Claudia Lawrence case, that's another sad one where there's been too few answers and developments over the years. As for the newspaper speculation about her at the time relating to her private life. That's a case of victim blaming and sensationalism to sell more newspapers, regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not. Also, it's obviously so much easier to do when it involves a woman going missing.

I feel like if there was more to tell about Kevin's case, that would trigger some movement towards getting answers, then surely this year would be the time to release more information as it's the 40th Anniversary of his disappearance this year (Yesterday was Kevin's 56th Birthday, and Alex posted a touching tribute to him online).

I'm also inclined to believe Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving home (I wonder if the "within a couple of hours" part that Police have mentioned is due to the supposed sighting of Kevin at 10pm, outside The Cricketers Pub, suggesting that he could've been alive and well until then.)

I've read through Newspaper archives that extensive searches have taken place around the time and in the time since, which brings me to my question. Do we know exactly where was searched and how thoroughly it was searched?

I've posted a few key locations, all roughly within a mile of where Kevin lived and was last seen that night back in 1986. I've used a Google Earth view from 2003, as that's as close to the time of Kevin's disappearance I can get.

As you can see, there's many areas of grassland nearby to where Kevin lived, no doubt some of these were used by gay men as "cruising grounds" that I do not personally think it is fair to assume Kevin would've visited. At least not without any evidence to support that line of thought. So I do wonder which of there places were searched at the time and how thoroughly.

As this case is similar to the cases of Reece Collins, Jason Swift and Vishal Mehrotra, who were all boys who went missing and were later found buried/disposed of in woodland, I wonder if that's where Kevin's remains are hidden.

Ashburton Park - A short distance (0.11 miles) from Kevin's house, I believe this is the park he visited with his dog (I think she was called Blue?) the Sunday he went missing, and to play with his remote control racing car.

View attachment 643255

Brickfields Meadow - A good distance further north of where Kevin lived but offers some dense woodland cover, even if it's very close to residential area.

View attachment 643256

Long Lane Wood - About 0.82 miles away from Kevin's home but as you can see, it's a very densely wooded area. It would provide good coverage even in winter for a burial/disposal site.

View attachment 643254

There's plenty of other places like this nearby too, but just to keep my post a reasonable length, I've only mentioned these three for now. I'm just wondering if anyone else feels these are viable spots for Kevin's remains to be, and if anyone knows how thoroughly and when these areas were searched.

Just to add a bit more, I think the key to this case is to examine and explain Kevin's movements that night. Why was he seen walking North up Shirley Road so long after leaving the house. Where had he been and why? There's nothing really to the South of where he was other than Shirley Hills and residential housing. If he wanted to buy eggs, then he had certainly been in the wrong direction entirely.

Another thing which I think has never been explained is the bullying he was suffering at school. Why was he being bullied and by whom? We know there were very violent lads who lived near Kevin who were a similar age and who were convicted in court for attacking lads on buses and on the street. Very possible that Kevin knew them. Were they looked at by the Police? His sister also said that Kevin could really swing a punch, so I wonder if that means he had been in physical fights at school.

The second bit regarding the bullying at school is that his mother said that he sorted it all out himself and got the school to switch his class. That shows real maturity and independence from Kevin. But it also possibly hints at how he may have wanted to keep it all to himself without his parents really knowing the full story. We know that teenagers can be very secretive about their lives at the best of times. Perhaps Kevin was too, just as Lee Boxell had kept from his parents that he was going to "The Shed". It's a shame that none of Kevin's friends have ever come forward to put more context to what they knew of Kevin's life, as some of Lee Boxell's friends did.

 

[THX]

I remember the Claudia Lawrence case, that's another sad one where there's been too few answers and developments over the years. As for the newspaper speculation about her at the time relating to her private life. That's a case of victim blaming and sensationalism to sell more newspapers, regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not. Also, it's obviously so much easier to do when it involves a woman going missing.

I feel like if there was more to tell about Kevin's case, that would trigger some movement towards getting answers, then surely this year would be the time to release more information as it's the 40th Anniversary of his disappearance this year (Yesterday was Kevin's 56th Birthday, and Alex posted a touching tribute to him online).

I'm also inclined to believe Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving home (I wonder if the "within a couple of hours" part that Police have mentioned is due to the supposed sighting of Kevin at 10pm, outside The Cricketers Pub, suggesting that he could've been alive and well until then.)

I've read through Newspaper archives that extensive searches have taken place around the time and in the time since, which brings me to my question. Do we know exactly where was searched and how thoroughly it was searched?

I've posted a few key locations, all roughly within a mile of where Kevin lived and was last seen that night back in 1986. I've used a Google Earth view from 2003, as that's as close to the time of Kevin's disappearance I can get.

As you can see, there's many areas of grassland nearby to where Kevin lived, no doubt some of these were used by gay men as "cruising grounds" that I do not personally think it is fair to assume Kevin would've visited. At least not without any evidence to support that line of thought. So I do wonder which of there places were searched at the time and how thoroughly.

As this case is similar to the cases of Reece Collins, Jason Swift and Vishal Mehrotra, who were all boys who went missing and were later found buried/disposed of in woodland, I wonder if that's where Kevin's remains are hidden.

Ashburton Park - A short distance (0.11 miles) from Kevin's house, I believe this is the park he visited with his dog (I think she was called Blue?) the Sunday he went missing, and to play with his remote control racing car.

View attachment 643255

Brickfields Meadow - A good distance further north of where Kevin lived but offers some dense woodland cover, even if it's very close to residential area.

View attachment 643256

Long Lane Wood - About 0.82 miles away from Kevin's home but as you can see, it's a very densely wooded area. It would provide good coverage even in winter for a burial/disposal site.

View attachment 643254

There's plenty of other places like this nearby too, but just to keep my post a reasonable length, I've only mentioned these three for now. I'm just wondering if anyone else feels these are viable spots for Kevin's remains to be, and if anyone knows how thoroughly and when these areas were searched.

Should also make it absolutely clear that *if* indeed Kevin was gay and *if* he was indeed cruising the parks, I do not see that as him doing anything wrong whatsoever, or it being any kind of slur on his character whatsoever. I appreciate that some may seek to judge and to victim blame, but he would have simply been doing what gay people had to do in those days, because gay people were pushed into the shadows by society, and society was so grossly homophobic. Everything had to be hidden.

At the end of the day, we actually know very little of substance about this case for sure. As with other similar cases, we then have to look at probabilities, no matter how much that may clash against personal prejudices or what we "want" to hear. The aim at the end of the day is to find out what actually happened. As previously mentioned, the IICSA Inquiry found that when teens go missing, it's very disproportionately related to sex. That means that there's a much higher possibility that Kevin's disappearance was due to something sexual. It is is therefore not unreasonable at all, given those probabilities, to consider whether Kevin was sexually active in the local area, and how and where and with whom as it may well lead to his killer(s). We know from the newspaper archives that sexual activity was going on in the local parks, and that there was at least one incident that involved teenage boys being groomed. So that is a possibility that we must consider.

Again, the bottom line with this case is that the Police know more about this case than anybody else. To repeat what they have said:

They believe Kevin said he was going to buy some eggs but it was a ruse. That needs to be explained about what (and whom) he was hiding and why. There are numerous possibilities that have been discussed in depth. Drugs, sex, getting involved in antisocial behaviour (which was rife in the area) or meeting people his family / friends may have disapproved of for whatever reason. Again, we need an explanation. The police seem to be leaning towards it being sexual because of the alleged grooming.

It needs to be explained where he went that night and why, and how he ended up where he did when he was seen by The Cricketers Pub over an hour after leaving the house. As I say, it seems like he's gone in completely the wrong direction if he wanted to buy eggs. We need to understand where he had been since he left the house, why he had been there, and where he was headed. There really was not much around that area apart from the parks and green space, unless he'd been in someone's house or indeed had been cruising. It was also a Sunday night in the 1980s and very few shops would have been open. The police obviously believe that Kevin had been to meet someone that he didn't want his family to know about.

The police have said that Kevin was groomed and have cited the stereo as evidence. We need an explanation about how they came to that conclusion. If indeed Kevin was being groomed, then we need to understand how he met the person who groomed him. There is evidence from the newspaper archives that teenage boys were being groomed in the parks nearby, Kevin was known to go the local parks and to Shirley Hills, so that is a strong possibility that we must consider.

The police also said that they want to speak again to the woman who called a local newspaper in 1996 and said she knew what had happened to Kevin. They also said that there are people in Croydon who know what happened. Again, we need an explanation of why the Police believe that, and we also need to know if there has been any rumours in the local area, as is very often the case.

We also need a full explanation about why the Police believe Kevin was murdered within a couple of hours of leaving the house.

If we can establish those facts, then we'll be a long way down the road to finding what happened to Kevin, and who was involved. If they possibly can, the Police really need to put more information into the public domain. Until then, all we can do is look at what was happening in the area in 1986 and assess probabilities.

 

[THX]

Bumping this thread as today is the 40th anniversary of Kevin's disappearance. Hoping very much that his sister Alexandra and family finally get some answers this year.

 

[Ellymoo]

Any fingerprints found on the stereo?

Sending my love to your family, Kevin, and to you. I really hope you come home soon. I'm so sorry x

 

[BrutishGoose32]

Any fingerprints found on the stereo?

Sending my love to your family, Kevin, and to you. I really hope you come home soon. I'm so sorry x

I doubt it was even checked.

From what I've read, it's a bit back and forth on where the speakers had come from. In a Crimewatch appeal 4 months after he went missing, it's specifically mentioned that he spent most of his savings on new stereo equipment. Much later, it's believed that the speakers were a "gift" from someone who was grooming him. It's not clear what caused that change of mind, although I think I read that they were somewhat hidden in his bedroom.

 

[BrutishGoose32]

From what I saw in the newspaper archives, I'm only aware for sure that Shirley Hills was searched. I believe it was a "fingertip" search which is pretty thorough. Basically involves various police officers sitting on the ground and ground through the grass with their fingers, looking for any evidence. There's also a really heartbreaking article in one of the papers where Kevin's grandad was searching through Shirley Hills. I believe they searched Shirley Hills first as Kevin was known to go for walks there.

There are so many things with this case that it makes it incredibly difficult to solve. Not only were there a billion different things going on in the area (quite serious drugs, very high levels of violence including gangs attacking teenage lads and others people, sex offenders galore, a lot of things going on in the parks, massive police corruption) but also the area is surrounded by a huge amount of sprawling greenspace. There were so many places where Kevin's body could have been disposed of, including in water.

There have been so many cases over the years where bodies have been found many years later, including this one in the link below of a man who went missing in 1967 and his body was found in 2023 on farmland during construction work. I suspect something may sadly happen with Kevin in years to come. One of the very sad things about the case below is that the relatives of the missing man said they had been driving past the field he was found in pretty much every day for many years.

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-08-16/suspects-identified-in-1967-murder-mystery

I do hope that the police say some more for the 40th anniversary. It's so sad that Kevin's case has never had the kind of attention that it deserved.

The original investigation in 1986 seemed to have drawn a complete blank, although they found a lad in nearby Thornton Heath who looked so much like Kevin that they made him provide his passport to formally identify himself. That must have been very sad for the family. Imagine if they had seen that lad on the street. I get the strong impression though that the investigation in the 1980s was not of a high quality - as was very often the case back then. They just didn't take the disappearnce of male youths seriously and missing persons investigations in general were often bungled. When Lee Boxell went missing in 1988, his investigation too was apparently a real mess.

As always, thanks for replying!

I had read in newspaper archives about searches but couldn't find anywhere specific. Something about the similarity with Reece Collins, and the proximity to the Reece Collins case makes me think it could be nearby woodland that should be/should've been searched to rule it out as a deposit site.

It's interesting what you said there about a lad looking so much like Kevin, because I believe I also read a similar thing in a newspaper archive that happened with Kevin's mother after his disappearance. She was driving about and happened to see a lad that looked so much like Kevin!

It makes me wonder how reliable the supposed 10pm sighting actually is. He was seen by a girl who he worked with at the Co-Op, but I'm assuming it was from a distance or across the road because it's not ever been mentioned that they spoke. As I'm sure anything that Kevin could've said would've been seen as extremely significant.

So what if the girl, some distance away and only lit by streetlights as it was dark, only saw a boy that looked like Kevin, as it's been established that Kevin must've had a kind of 'look' that was popular at the time.

On another note, Alex Hicks has started up an Instagram in the hopes of renewing interest and raising awareness in Kevin's case. With it being 40 years yesterday, I really hope she gets somewhere and hopefully gets a new investigation into Kevin's disappearance started.