VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[Becky53]

And why did she run off?

It’s one of life’s enigmas - a bit like how all the footballers I’ve watched today have perfect hair whilst barbers are shut... Their wives and partners must be a dab hand with a set of clippers

 

[C.greek]

No one knows where or when Libby got in the river, so it's pointless debating whether she could have done it, from my point of view. She might have been wandering half an hour later along the banks, out of ear shot of anyone.

moo

True noone knows. But i doubt from what the experts said( or rather the snippets we've heard) that she could wander in the state she was in. Jmo

 

[Sooty]

I know this has been posted before as a link but these photos show the river hull at oak road with the tide coming in. Lovely photos, but it’s a different place when the water is high. MOO

Wild at Hull: A spring day at Oak Road playing fields

 

[Sooty]

That's the River Humber, and at the mouth by the looks of it, which would make sense for the rapid change. But this was further inland and on the River Hull.

In fact, is it tidal all the way inland that far? Apologies if this has been asked before!

Yes I realise the post doesn’t pinpoint the Hull at oak road but it’s as close as I can get the tide times! Just hoping to illustrate the rapidity of the rise in level. The graph shows It’s the mouth of the Hull. It is tidal at oak road most definitely.

 

[NottReds50]

Yes I realise it doesn’t pinpoint oak road, but it’s as closee as I can get the tide times. It’s the mouth of the Hull. It is tidal at oak road most definitely.

Ah OK, Thank you!

 

[C.greek]

No one knows where or when Libby got in the river, so it's pointless debating whether she could have done it, from my point of view. She might have been wandering half an hour later along the banks, out of ear shot of anyone.

moo

True noone knows. But i doubt from what the experts said( or rather the snippets we've heard) that she could wander in the state she was in. Jmo

Exactly. Not to mention ruined trousers (grass stains found only) and boots. Aha and boots' prints and fibres of PR clothes in the vegetation.

He was not wearing boots but trainers. And the fact the police did not go to ORPF immediately afterwards and many people i would imagine walked the fields the next 2 days makes it more difficult to find any footprints i would imagine

 

[Challwood]

I agree with your fact that he could likely easily have carried LS, screaming through the park- it surprise me a little that they weren’t spotted by SA and only a singular person was seen later on. My difficulty is how he would have reasonably got her into the river and been back at his car in 7.5minutes . The act of carrying someone is one thing- to throw a body into the water with enough launch as to get far enough in not to get caught in the reeds is impossible. Therefore he needed to wade down through the slippy mud slope and net to the rivers edge carrying a body- that we have all discussed would possibly trap his shoes (especially with extra weight and no hands free to help you balance) and then clamber back up the mud slope and back to his car in 7.5 minutes

What about if it was by the boathouse?

Google maps tell me the path direct into the river is ~350m.

Even on a 30 second pivot, you'd imagine something would be picked up on that CCTV directly opposite? Going on that dogleg right, would negate the bank, and be better for footing and more closer to the river as per @Vermont24 kind photos. So I don't the timings would be that out from choosing either?



Good question, looking at the picture just posted, it does look very reedy. Could PR just have had blind luck? Doesn't have to be fully in the water, but then luckily tides rise and that helps? I don't know.

I’ve just watched drone footage taken this week titled ‘Oak Road playing field Hull’ by a YouTube user called Ben Bell (I don’t know if he’s on here)
His drone footage at ORPF clearly shows the path, bench, pond etc and actually ends right at the riverbank. It may help to see what it was like there during the daytime of 1st Feb 2021 (obviously not how it was on the night of Feb 1st 2019) I’ll post a link if needed but should be easy for you to find using the details I’ve posted.

 

[tedtink]

Exactly. Not to mention ruined trousers (grass stains found only) and boots. Aha and boots' prints and fibres of PR clothes in the vegetation.

Did they find any of Libby's clothing fibres, hair, jacket, top after wandering around for goodness knows how long.
Possibly not if she'd had been carried.
MOO

 

[Chambo1994]

I'd cut out thought and panic cos I think the former had already been worked out in his head beforehand and the latter wouldn't bother him.

See, I’m open to hearing everyone’s opinion and ideas, but this is the one and only point I just can’t understand throughout any of the case.

I don’t think any of the evidence we’ve read gives any indication that he planned to murder that night, I think if it was him, that it was a result of the rape.

So to instantly just carry out the killing and disposal without any panic or thought process is the one thing I can’t get a scenario round, that would be the behaviour of seasoned serial killers, I’m not sure that’s who PR is MOO

 

[tigerowl]

What about if it was by the boathouse?


I’ve just watched drone footage taken this week titled ‘Oak Road playing field Hull’ by a YouTube user called Ben Bell (I don’t know if he’s on here)
His drone footage at ORPF clearly shows the path, bench, pond etc and actually ends right at the riverbank. It may help to see what it was like there during the daytime of 1st Feb 2021 (obviously not how it was on the night of Feb 1st 2019) I’ll post a link if needed but should be easy for you to find using the details I’ve posted.

Amazing find! If that wasn't someone on here, they have read our minds about what we needed to see. Thank you for sharing. I wonder what watching that will do to peoples opinions of the timeline.

 

[tedtink]

See, I’m open to hearing everyone’s opinion and ideas, but this is the one and only point I just can’t understand throughout any of the case.

I don’t think any of the evidence we’ve read gives any indication that he planned to murder that night, I think if it was him, that it was a result of the rape.

So to instantly just carry out the killing and disposal without any panic or thought process is the one thing I can’t get a scenario round, that would be the behaviour of seasoned serial killers, I’m not sure that’s who PR is MOO

I get that too.
But premeditation doesn't necessarily have to be a long, drawn out plan.
It just needs consideration, before committing, no matter how long that time may be, might be just a fleeting thought like grabbing a rock and whacking someone over the head.

 

[Sooty]

What about if it was by the boathouse?


I’ve just watched drone footage taken this week titled ‘Oak Road playing field Hull’ by a YouTube user called Ben Bell (I don’t know if he’s on here)
His drone footage at ORPF clearly shows the path, bench, pond etc and actually ends right at the riverbank. It may help to see what it was like there during the daytime of 1st Feb 2021 (obviously not how it was on the night of Feb 1st 2019) I’ll post a link if needed but should be easy for you to find using the details I’ve posted.

thank you, I found this video useful. It would appear that the river does get higher than in the video, cross referencing with the Wild At Hull blog photos, so that the river surface meets right up to the Grassy banks, with far fewer Reed beds left as barriers. JMO from what I can see.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Hello! Still intermittently catching up but wanted to add my hubby is 195lbs which I believe is about 14 stones and he can benchpress 405 lbs so 28-29 stones. Most people that see him would never suspect that. I have very nervously watched him many times! No steroids. Just a strong fellow!

 

[C.greek]

See, I’m open to hearing everyone’s opinion and ideas, but this is the one and only point I just can’t understand throughout any of the case.

I don’t think any of the evidence we’ve read gives any indication that he planned to murder that night, I think if it was him, that it was a result of the rape.

So to instantly just carry out the killing and disposal without any panic or thought process is the one thing I can’t get a scenario round, that would be the behaviour of seasoned serial killers, I’m not sure that’s who PR is MOO

I agree. I think he murdered her while raping her or trying to rape her. For me the 3rd visit is when he must have disposed of her body and possibly this excited him (as evidenced by him masturbating half an hour later). All serial killers have their first victim though. But I agree I do not think the murder was premeditated. However considering that he got rid of her body later (if we go with the prosecution with which i personally from what I've seen agree), shows a certain premeditation. The complete lack of empathy shown after the rape (and for some murder) and nowadays at the trial and the arrogance shown when talking about his 'problem' like it is some kind of fetish tells me more about what he is capable of doing.

 

[Dotta]

Hello! Still intermittently catching up but wanted to add my hubby is 195lbs which I believe is about 14 stones and he can benchpress 405 lbs so 28-29 stones. Most people that see him would never suspect that. I have very nervously watched him many times! No steroids. Just a strong fellow!

All those mysterious measurments hi hi. I only understand kilos and metres

 

[Chambo1994]

I get that too.
But premeditation doesn't necessarily have to be a long, drawn out plan.
It just needs consideration, before committing, no matter how long that may be, might be just a fleeting thought like grabbing a rock and whacking someone over the head.

Understood! But what I mean by I don’t think it was premeditated in the way that would fit this timeline.

i.e. planning where to do it, how close the river is, how to dispose of the body etc.

I think the only really logical way would be disposal on visit 3

 

[porkypies]

Just posting for reference

View attachment 283092

I have set the tide times for 31st jan 2019 / 1st feb 2019 with marker for relevant high tide

I would like to add, for information, a site to check the moon phase for that night.
www.moonphases.co.uk
I will try to add a screenshot but not sure how.
If I have read correctly:
The moon was just a sliver of a crescent moon and not the full moon mentioned initially by SA, and it did not rise til 4.24 am, so it was no 'moonlit night' at the time that he saw the man running/walking.
And for anyone who has not heard one, the following site will play you just what a screaming vixen sounds like, and you can see how she stands to scream, then moves and stops to scream again etc, just like the witness reported gaps in screaming and that they seemed to be moving.
www.earthtouchnews.com/in the field/backyard-wildlife/video-this-is-what-the-fox-screams.

I'm not aware of any evidence that any of the 3 ORPF witnesses heard LS screaming.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Exactly. Not to mention ruined trousers (grass stains found only) and boots. Aha and boots' prints and fibres of PR clothes in the vegetation.

PR washed his clothes so we do not know if there was mud or anything else that would not have stained. And nothing was left behind by Libby but we know for sure she was in the river. I do not think we can say lack of PR fibers or clothes in the vegetation means he was not there. MOO

 

[Ruthbullock]

Understood! But what I mean by I don’t think it was premeditated in the way that would fit this timeline.

i.e. planning where to do it, how close the river is, how to dispose of the body etc.

I think the only really logical way would be disposal on visit 3

Would the 4 minutes in the third visit be enough time?

 

[Dotta]

PR washed his clothes so we do not know if there was mud or anything else that would not have stained. And nothing was left behind by Libby but we know for sure she was in the river. I do not think we can say lack of PR fibers or clothes in the vegetation means he was not there. MOO

A criminal always leaves sth especially in rough terrain. But the key factor is to find it as quickly as possible otherwise it is "Gone with the wind" and detectives should never quote Scarlett "I will do/think about it tomorrow".