VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[marshy73]

If PR is convicted of murder as an innocent man he has only got himself to blame for making such an obvious and complete hash of his story.

So true

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sorry, yes, I edited my post to say ‘I know it’s been discussed at length on previous threads’, and I know it brings no new evidence to light, I just meant that the longer/slower (real time) version of this spidercam is slightly easier to follow. (I actually thought when I first watched this almost 2 years ago that he was fiddling or counting rosary beads.) jmo.

No need to edit, merely saying rolling a cigarette is the same movement- I don’t even know if he smoked ????

 

[Vermont24]

It has been suggested he could be rolling a cigarette and that was before we knew what had happened to LS and the CCTV had been leaked- if we disregard a change in knowledge and opinion (based on everything we know now)- there isn’t anything to suggest any difference- no evidence left so to speak.

There doesn't seem to be any pouch/tin, papers or filters produced from a pocket or the car. Whatever he's doing takes a lot less movement and dexterity than rolling a cigarette.

 

[Catsarse]

Thanks for posting that. I hadn't previously seen this 10 minute cut of the Beverley Road/Haworth Street CCTV all together.

I don't think I'd even noticed the pulling by the bus stop, but now it's clear. Illuminated by the advertising, it even appears PR drops into a lower stance and seems to be pulling LS by the wrist. Not the actions of a good samaritan. She seems to pull back a few times, followed by an attempt to find her footing. I know it's been discussed, but I've avoided looking at it too closely. I'm now also wondering if PR isn't subtly touching himself whilst seated during the spidercam footage, because his hands never really stop moving.

I agree @Vermont24 i initially thought he was texting but now zooming in he’s either anxiously twiddling his hands or playing with himself. You can see he has no phone when he stands up, nothing in his hands.

You can see someone watching her/them, they pop out of Haworth St, wonder if he is one of the Romanians (as PR described them) from the car parked on Haworth?

Also on that video at 1min 09 seconds left still to play, someone walks by in Beverley Rd just after PR drives off down Haworth St with Libby. I know it probably wouldn’t have changed anything but what if, just a bit longer and he might’ve been scared off.

 

[tedtink]

Sorry, yes, I edited my post to say ‘I know it’s been discussed at length on previous threads’, and I know it brings no new evidence to light, I just meant that the longer/slower (real time) version of this spidercam is slightly easier to follow. (I actually thought when I first watched this almost 2 years ago that he was fiddling or counting rosary beads.) jmo.

I does look like he could be making a rollie, albeit, taking a long time to do so, hands down, up to mouth to lick the paper, hands down again, hand up to put rollie in mouth.
But I don't see him putting his baccy 'paraphanalia' anywhere afterwards.

 

[HLC35]

No need to edit, merely saying rolling a cigarette is the same movement- I don’t even know if he smoked ????

It’s a good point about knowing whether he smoked or not. Albeit why should we/maybe not relevant; I understand that. Funny really, I’ve always watched this and thought that it isn’t a rollie. No tin/bag stuff for it. I guess I thought somewhere on footage or evidence (that LE have but we haven’t seen) would maybe show him walking and smoking, or the LE would have a cigarette butt etc, especially as he’s out on the streets so much. And especially as they recovered condoms at sites/homes he’d been captured on CCTV/reported to have been. I sort of thought he was so busy being a predator that there wasn’t time to smoke out and about. Equally, smoking could have been an ‘ideal’ excuse to his wife ‘to go for a night smoke’ under the guise of ‘so as not to harm the babies’. Jmo. Hope that all sort of makes sense.

 

[C.greek]

If it was manslaughter how did Libby end up in the river?

 

[Ruthbullock]

There's doesn't seem to be any pouch/tin, papers or filters produced from a pocket or the car. Whatever he's doing takes a lot less movement and dexterity than rolling a cigarette.

To be fair I have friends who could roll one like that’s the little movement and the tin etc is never taken out by them. (In fact most don’t have a tin either anymore)

 

[Catsarse]

Also thanks to the person who posted a link re the river from the blog Wild at Hull-what a great blog!
There’s a recent post where they took in oak road pond and a good walk along a stretch of river Hull
http://wildathull.blogspot.com/2021/01/urban-birding-at-hull-oak-road-lake.html

It really is amazing how high and low and how quickly the river changes. You can see a stretch in the post above as the tide is lowering.

 

[Winterbells]

I think he is fiddling with a condom, which he removes from his pocket before sitting down and then replaces as the other car drives away.

 

[tedtink]

There's doesn't seem to be any pouch/tin, papers or filters produced from a pocket or the car. Whatever he's doing takes a lot less movement and dexterity than rolling a cigarette.

It's not Libby's watch he fiddling with is it?
Did it fall off when they were interacting near the bus stop I wonder?
There's a tiny reflection of light that bounces off whatever he's holding at around -6.10

 

[Ruthbullock]

It's not Libby's watch he fiddling with is it?
Did it fall off when they were interacting near the bus stop I wonder?
There's a tiny reflection of light that bounces off whatever he's holding at around -6.10

Now that’s an interesting thought!

 

[HLC35]

It's not Libby's watch he fiddling with is it?
Did it fall off when they were interacting near the bus stop I wonder?
There's a tiny reflection of light that bounces off whatever he's holding at around -6.10

Ah, very interesting point. I had guessed it had been dropped/pulled off as she got in/got put in his car, but very plausible he had already got hold of it when pulling her arm (?) at the bus stop. That would make a good reason to return to her; “ oh, I think I found your watch... hey, how about you let me get you home safely...’. Then he threw it on the floor when they got back to the car. Hmmm, but slightly risky to leave it behind there though. Not that he may have been thinking clearly himself then if completely overridden with what he was about to do...Jmo

 

[Vermont24]

Also thanks to the person who posted a link re the river from the blog Wild at Hull-what a great blog!
There’s a recent post where they took in oak road pond and a good walk along a stretch of river Hull
Wild at Hull: Urban birding at Hull: Oak Road Lake, River Hull, Stoneferry road circular walk
It really is amazing how high and low and how quickly the river changes. You can see a stretch in the post above as the tide is lowering.

I used to work with the blog's author. She's often around Hull's parks early in the day. Those last couple of photos around Stoneferry give a good impression of the appearance of the river between the playing fields and the city centre.

 

[tedtink]

Now that’s an interesting thought!

Ah, very interesting point. I had guessed it had been dropped/pulled off as she got in/got put in his car, but very plausible he had already got hold of it when pulling her arm (?) at the bus stop. That would make a good reason to return to her; “ oh, I think I found your watch... hey, how about you let me get you home safely...’. Then he threw on the floor when they got back to the car. Hmmm, but slightly risky to leave it behind there though. Not that he may have been thinking clearly himself then if completely overridden with what he was about to do...Jmo

See if you can see what I think I can see, (the reflection) - either way it could very well be her watch he's got in his hand and it's an excuse to go back to her.
He could have dropped it next to the car.

 

[HLC35]

See if you can see what I think I can see, (the reflection) - either way it could very well be her watch he's got in his hand and it's an excuse to go back to her.
He could have dropped it next to the car.

Yes I do see the ‘glint’; that’s actually what made me think it was rosary beads. I now think the watch. Very interesting idea.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

It's not Libby's watch he fiddling with is it?
Did it fall off when they were interacting near the bus stop I wonder?
There's a tiny reflection of light that bounces off whatever he's holding at around -6.10

If he had handled it, wouldn't there be traces of his DNA on it?

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

So, back in court tomorrow. Will the jury have reached a decision?

I have made mine. Going purely by what has been put forward by both defence and prosecution, and as was asked of the jury to put all personal thoughts and feelings aside and go only with the presented facts.

I am conflicted by the scream timings, with the two later witnesses putting the sounds later when PR had already left area. The whole episode taking just 7 minutes feels little time to arrive, drag her out of car, commit rape, then either during or after by asphyxiation or simply throwing her in river, commit murder. Unsure too where they were: he says by the green shed, Sam Alford thought sounds were from over by river.

I feel too there seemed no undue anxiety or a charged up, wired demeanour noted by his friends the next day, or the police, if he had indeed just murdered a girl. We have no evidence of previous assaults on any women, or his being violent. I am not convinced he was intentionally hyped up on that night to find a woman and rape her. As LS was still fully clothed and with her undergarments still in place, this was no violent rape scene, although given her intoxicated state, it must be concluded she was not fully conscious enough to know or agree to what was happening.

Someone mentioned earlier in a thread about the car washing the next day, yet the defence stated that this siting was likely false as the car was on CCTV parked around the corner.

If I were on the jury, I would find PR guilty of rape, but not guilty of murder.


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FINAL 1

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Trial (Part Heard)
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[HLC35]

If he had handled it, wouldn't there be traces of his DNA on it?

Ah, good point. I can’t quite remember what they said in court about the watch, I remember it being passed along the jury to see the clasp mechanism was intact.

 

[Dotta]

Good point too! Damn. I can’t quite remember what they said in court about the watch, I remember it being passed along the jury to see the clasp mechanism was intact.

I didn't watch this cctv but if he was fiddling with sth and it glinted my first thought was "wedding ring". People often fiddle with them.